Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

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igeorge123
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Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby igeorge123 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:21 pm

I was reading an article that talked about the E-TEC G2 ICON II system. When you do the rigging you no longer need the gateway module to connect to the NMEA-2000 network.

I have looked at all the articles that [jimh] has written using the gateway.

When I look at the Evinrude information on the internet they always show the gateway module.

I will be rigging a boat with two E-TEC G2 300-HP engines, ICON Pro 3.5" gauges, electronic shift, Garmin 7412xsv display, Garmin VHF. The boat already has the NMEA-2000 network setup connecting all the Garmin equipment.

Also in the new ICON II rigging there will be no need for the Gateway Module used in ICON rigging. Since there is a separate and dedicated main bus backbone for ICON II, the need for a gateway is eliminated. No NMEA traffic runs on the isolated main bus backbone in normal operation.

Source: http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/rigging-center-and-icon-ii-6958715

[The linked article is also posted at http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/022677.html]

jimh
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Re: E-TEC Rigging: Advanced

Postby jimh » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:31 pm

I am not sure there is a question in the above post. I do note:

    --the reason the article I wrote SEVEN years about ICON EST controls mentions using a GATEWAY module is because the module is necessary with that rigging.

    --the reason the article I wrote THREE years ago about ICON II EST controls does NOT mention a GATEWAY module is because the module is NOT necessary with that rigging.

If you are planning an installation with ICON II EST controls and E-TEC G2 engines, you should not be confused by seven-year-old articles about ICON EST controls with E-TEC legacy (not G2) engines.

From the article you linked to in your own post, read this portion of what I wrote:

There are several significant differences in ICON II compared to ICON:

--the engine control network is completely isolated and runs on its own CANbus network;

--the engine control network connectors are no longer threaded connectors, but mate with a snap-in locking collar system; engine network connectors are six-pin.

--if there were to be a failure in the engine control network, the system will automatically fail over to using the NMEA-2000 network for engine control.


igeorge123 wrote:When I look at the Evinrude information on the internet...

If you want to refer to other articles or information on the internet that contradicts that, you will have to give me the URL to the information, otherwise I have no idea what information you are talking about.

igeorge123
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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby igeorge123 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:05 am

I understand the old information talks about the gateway device. I just discovered that the new ICON II rigging does not require the gateway. I have searched the internet to try and find documents that show a typical installation with the newer ICON II installation. All I seem to find is the older ICON installations.

The reason is I am concerned about the NMEA2000 power distribution. You did an excellent job of pointing out this concern in the older ICON systems when using the old gateway using the isolation devices. When I use the newer ICON II with no gateway and connect my current NMEA2000 network onto the ICON II G2 NMEA2000 network do I have to use the isolation device i.e. Garmin device?

Maybe I am not looking in the correct locations to try and find current 2017 rigging documentation for the new E-Tec G2 with the ICON II.

Thanks
George

igeorge123
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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby igeorge123 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:30 am

I found this diagram [ please see the complete diagram reproduced below--jimh ] in one of you earlier posts. The NMEA-2000 network is powered by the control harness item 13.

When I connect the ICON PRO RPM gauge, do I use the isolating device to keep the power from the gauge isolated from the engine network at point 14 in the attachment?

What about not connecting the power from the control item 2 harness to the network shown in the attachment and insert my current NMEA-2000 network that is already powered by the house battery and leave it at that?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks

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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby jimh » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:26 pm

I recommend as follows:

If you want to add an Evinrude ICON Pro RPM gauge to a boat's existing NMEA-2000 network, you will just connect the NMEA-2000 integral drop cable from the gauge to a network-T on the backbone. That's all there is needed with regard to the network connection.

The ICON Pro RPM gauge is not self-powered from the network like many small gauges are. Instead, the ICON Pro RPM gauge must be separately powered by its own power cable. In the wiring harness that comes from the gauge itself, you will find two conductors for power, one has VIOLET insulation and is the positive power, and the other has BLACK insulation and is the negative power. You must connect these to a source of 12-Volt power.

Because the ICON Pro RPM gauge is essentially an engine gauge, it makes good sense to connect its power to the engine ACCY (accessory) circuit that is available from the ignition key switch. That used to be simple, because the ignition key switch actually had a terminal marked ACCY, and you could create a branch circuit for power distribution right from that terminal. Modern rigging is more complicated.

In the case of using Evinrude ICON II PREMIUM EST controls, there is a connector provided in the harness from the controls that gives accessory power. It is shown in my illustration (see below) as CALLOUT-6. There will be 12-Volt power on that cable when the ignition key switch in in RUN or START position. You can use that power to run the ICON Pro RPM gauge.

Now in the diagram the power at the connector CALLOUT-6 is shown powering the NMEA-2000 network. You can decide how you want to power the network in your boat as best suits your situation. I can see two strategies:

--let the power from the engine key switch circuit (CALLOUT-6) power the network; this means the engine key switch has to be ON for the network to get power; or,

--set up a separate power circuit for the network; this means you will have to manually switch that branch circuit to ON to get network power; that can be annoying in actual use.

What I have described is a best-of-both situation. I power my network with a relay, getting the power from an isolated battery not associated with any engine starting circuit. I then use steering diodes to power the relay coil so that relay is activated by either one of two conditions:

--if the key switch is in RUN or START, or

--if I throw the manual network power switch to ON

You are free to choose how you want to power the network.

Also, be cautious about using the ACCY power at CALLOUT-6. I do not know how much power is available there.

Note: Evinrude does make a Y-Cord cable to split the power available at CALLOUT-6's connector so you can attach it to TWO other circuits. From that I would infer that there must be more than 3-Amperes available there. My basis for that is the network is fused at 3-Amperes, so if you can use the Y-Cord to power something else, there must be more than 3-Amperes available. I am GUESSING that probably a total of 5 or 6-Amperes is available. I don't have a specification about that circuit. The battery power to the ICON II PREMIUM EST controls is fused at 10-Amperes, so you can figure that the total power drain off the system via the CALLOUT-6 connector has to be around the net of 10-Amperes MINUS the current used to run the controls themselves.

igeorge123
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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby igeorge123 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:34 pm

The information that you provided above will be helpful. I will be setting up the NMEA-2000 network power on the house battery that is isolated from the starting. All the electronics that are currently on the NMEA-2000 are also isolated.

When I power the [ICON Pro RPM gauge] with the violet wire, will the NMEA-2000 drop cable coming from the gauge harness have 12-Volt on the network connector?

I do not want to power the network in two locations. The Garmin isolator 010-11580-00 that you have identified in one of you earlier post could solve this concern.

Thanks again for your help

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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby jimh » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:33 am

(I deleted a sidebar discussion about where and when a particular post was made by me on some other website that included a particular diagram.)

The rigging for ICON II for a single remote control station with a top mount single lever control for one E-TEC 74-degree V6 engine is shown in the diagram below.

G2_ICON_II_RiggingDiagramAdaptedJWH.png
Diagram by BRP; adapted by Jim Hebert. Used with permission.
G2_ICON_II_RiggingDiagramAdaptedJWH.png (60.36 KiB) Viewed 150 times


Ref / Description / Part Number 
1 Key Switch (OFF -ON -START) 766554
2 Single Binacle Mount Remote Control 766563
3 Remote Control Harness
4 Key Switch Connection
5 Remote Control to NMEA 2000 Network Connection
6 Accessory Power Out (12 VDC)
7 Remote Control Network Connection
8 Network Power In (12 VDC)
9 Oil Level 1 & 2
10 Fuel Level 1 & 2
11 Trim Switch Connection
12 Terminator Kit 764155
13 Power Node and Tee Kit 767433
14 Connection to NMEA 2000 Digital Display
15 Connection to NMEA 2000 Network

16 NMEA 2000 Bus Cables 2 ft (0.6 m) 765132
16 NMEA 2000 Bus Cables 6 ft (1.8m) 764161
16 NMEA 2000 Bus Cables 15 ft (4.5m) 764162
16 NMEA 2000 Bus Cables 25 It (7.6 m) 764163

17 Backbone Bus Cables 15 ft(4.5m) 587173
17 Backbone Bus Cables 20 ft (6.0 m) 587174
17 Backbone Bus Cables 35 ft (7.6m) 587175

NS Backbone Bus Cable Extensions 1 ft (0.3 m) 587176
NS Backbone Bus Cable Extensions 2 ft (0.6 m) 587177
NS Backbone Bus Cable Extensions 4 ft (1.5m) 587178
NS Backbone Bus Cable Extensions 10 ft (3.0m) 587179
NS Backbone Bus Cable Extensions 15 ft (4.5m) 587180
NS Backbone Bus Cable Extensions 20 ft (6.0 m) 587181
NS Backbone Bus Cable Extensions 25 ft (7.6 m) 587182

18 Network Power Cable, 15 ft. (4.5 m) 587184
18 Network Power Cable, 25 ft. (7.6 m) 587183

NS Network Power Cable Extension, 5 ft (1.5 m) 587185
NS Network Power Cable Extension, 10 ft. (3.0 m) 587186

19 Fuel Tank Sender
20 Connection to NMEA 2000 Accessories
21 Terminator (see Terminator Kit)

22 Battery Cable, 10 ft. (3.0 m) 587205
22 Battery Cable, 15 ft. (4.5 m) 587301
22 Battery Cable, 20 ft. (6.0 m) 587302


(The diagram is originally from Evinrude, but I modified it to better fit the page--it was wider in the original.)

Note: this diagram also appears in another thread on another website.

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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby jimh » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:41 am

I missed this earlier question:
igeorge123 wrote:When I connect the ICON PRO RPM gauge, do I use the isolating device to keep the power from the gauge isolated from the engine network at point 14 in the attachment?


No power isolator is needed because the ICON Pro RPM gauge is not trying to power the network on its drop cable

So George asked it again, in another way:

igeorge123 wrote:When I power the [ICON Pro RPM gauge] with the violet wire will the NMEA-2000 drop cable coming from the gauge harness have 12-Volt on the network connector?


The drop cable from the Evinrude ICON Pro RPM gauge does not try to power the network.

The power connected to the VIOLET wire in the harness for the ICON Pro RPM gauge is just for powering the electronics inside the gauge and for powering any subsequent other ICON gauge that might be connected to the ICON Pro RPM gauge when you construct the private ICON gauge network that daisy-chains all the other ICON gauges to the RPM gauge. But that power is not sent back to the network on the drop cable.

The notion that individual devices on the network will provide the network power is, as far as I know, against NMEA recommendations. Despite that prohibition, a few manufacturers have made devices that think their job is to power the network. Typically this was seen in the very earliest implementations of NMEA-2000 or in products which used NMEA-2000 networking but thought that they would be the only device on the network and needed to power an associated sensor. But mostly this is never done any more.

The situation with using the legacy E-TEC engines and the legacy ICON EST controls in which the GATEWAY module is providing power to the network is another exception to the rule of avoiding a device powering the network. That Evinrude chose to have the GATEWAY module power the NMEA-2000 network may be their implementation of how to get power to the NMEA-2000 network that was controlled by the ignition key switch for installations that were not going to buy the additional ACCESSORY RELAY POWER KIT option. In the legacy rigging, if you want to get power that comes on with the ignition key switch positions ON and START, you have to buy an extra relay kit. It looks like in the newer ICON II rigging Evinrude built that relay into the control head of the ICON II EST controls, providing a nice source for auxiliary devices to get power that is controlled by the ignition key switch.

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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby jimh » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:02 am

You should get the Evinrude literature that will show how to install the ICON Pro series gauges. The publication is called EVINRUDE E-TEC ICON Gauge Installation Guide.

If you plan to do the installation of the ICON gauges yourself, ask the dealer that sells you the ICON Pro series gauges to provide this literature for you. The dealer should have that literature as a PDF file. Ask him to print out the file or to give you the PDF file so you can print it yourself. Or, as a last resort, ask the dealer to order a printed copy from Evinrude. I think the part number is 356351.

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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby jimh » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:24 am

igeorge123 wrote:I do not want to power the network in two locations. The Garmin isolator 010-11580-00 that you have identified in one of you earlier post could solve this concern.


Yes, the GARMIN isolator device will block network power. Note that you can insert the power isolator two different places:

--insert the power isolator into the network backbone to divide the backbone power into two segments, or

--insert the power isolator into an individual device's drop cable to isolated that device from network power, assuming that device is trying to power the network itself.

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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby jimh » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:26 am

igeorge123 wrote:What about not connecting the power from the control...harness [at CALLOUT 6] to the network shown in the attachment and insert my current NMEA-2000 network that is already powered by the house battery and leave it at that?


That is a workable solution. There is nothing cast in stone that says the NMEA-2000 network must be powered as shown in the diagram. I think Evinrude just always shows it powered that way because they cannot assume a customer already has installed a network and has it powered.

UPDATE: see my more recent post below about a problem that can occur with network power not being available when the E-TEC G2 engine has power.

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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby jimh » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:31 am

GEORGE--I hope I got around to answering all the questions. Sorry for what was a bit of confusion on my part. I think we have all the drawings, the callouts, and the proper legends in this thread now, and it has answered your questions.

Feel free to ask more questions, if you have some. I have not rigged an E-TEC G2 with ICON II controls myself, but I think I understand the NMEA-2000 aspects of the rigging.

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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby jimh » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:36 am

There is another aspect of NMEA-2000 network powering that must be taken into account when using Evinrude E-TEC G2 engines and ICON II EST controls. The E-TEC G2 engine is going to be monitoring to see if the NMEA-2000 network (which it calls the PUBLIC network) is available as a backup for the primary ICON II EST control network (which it calls the PRIVATE network). This mentioned in a long thread at:

https://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/g2-250-ho-nmea-power-question-8923823?&trail=45

In summary, you SHOULD always provide power to the NMEA-2000 network anytime there is power to the E-TEC G2 engine. If you do not, the engine will log a FAULT code about no backup network available. The E-TEC G2 will have power when the key switch is in the ON or START position. This situation also explains why Evinrude always shows their rigging having the NMEA-2000 network powered from the ignition key switch ACCY branch. When the NMEA-2000 network is powered by the ignition key ACCY branch, it will always be powered whenever the engine has power.

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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby jimh » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:41 am

Also regarding NMEA-2000 network power and where to get the power from:

I mentioned earlier that in my rigging I have used a relay to provide power to the NMEA-2000 network. I describe the circuit and components used in more detail in an earlier article, at http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/003421.html.

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Re: Rigging E-TEC G2 Engines with ICON II EST Controls

Postby igeorge123 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:06 pm

Jim--you have answered all my questions. You did confirm that the drop cable does not have power. As you said most drop cables from devices do not have power. I have seen only one situation that power did come down the cable, and I had to use the isolator device.

Thanks again for a great job in answering my questions. --George