2007 Mercury 115 Power Trim System Problem

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
Whalerdog
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2007 Mercury 115 Power Trim System Problem

Postby Whalerdog » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:58 pm

I have a 2007 115 Mercury with about 450-hours [of run time].

[When] under[way with some engine] power [the engine trim position] gets to a point where [the engine can] trim up and then goes no further.

For instance, when underway at full throttle, [the engine] can usually be trimmed-up until the helm becomes hard to steer or the cooling water pressure starts to drop.

Now [the engine] will not do that any more.

When at the dock not running [the engine] trims up fully.

{Give me] suggestion as to what may be [the cause of the engine being unable to trim out or trim up when underway at full throttle].

Last year I checked [the fluid reservoir in the hydraulic system for power trim] and [the level of the fluid] seemed full--unless I did that incorrectly.

Would appreciate any tips on trouble shooting [the failure of the power trim to be able to trim up the engine when underway at full throttle]. I have not seen any leaks, and the sound the trim motor makes is fine.

It has not had an easy life popping in and out of waves at times.

Is there a check valve in the pump?

Thanks

Whalerdog
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:08 pm

Re: Mercury 2007 115 trim problem?

Postby Whalerdog » Thu May 10, 2018 8:07 pm

Update: I bought a entire new trim assembly. [The] dealers wanted $1,160 for the [trim assembly]. A friend got [the trim assembly] for $855.

The new trim assembly is made in China. [I am] not sure [where the original trim assembly] on the [2007 engine was made]. [The new trim assembly] is now made of some type of plastic--a better design [with] no rust.

Now the piston and trim motor have more room between them. [In the] original design the piston and trim motor rubbed [on something] then rusted.

[The boat will be] in water soon to try out [the new trim assembly].

No one has the tools or knowledge to really tell if [the defect that was causing the problem described earlier as failure to be able to trim up under full throttle was caused by the hydraulic] piston or the [electric] motor. [Service providers] just replace the entire [assembly] when there's a problem.

A rebuilt [electric] motor [for the trim system can be purchased] for $450 from a company in Florida.

On eBay I saw rebuilt [trim assemblies advertised] for $450 [when you trade in a] core. [The advertisers on eBay] offer two-year warranty.

Also, after market [trim assemblies are] available, but I went with an OEM assembly--and am glad I did.

I hope [the new OEM trim assembly will] last as long as the first [trim assembly did]. Twelve years from now I'll probably be out of boating or off the planet--if you know what I mean. Or really in the planet buried.

Whalerdog
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Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:08 pm

Re: Mercury 2007 115 trim problem?

Postby Whalerdog » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:31 pm

New results: the new trim pump from Mercury made in China is failing. It won't hold the lower unit out of water. In two or three days it has dropped back in water 8-inches from 22-inches above water.

Whalerdog
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Warranty on Mercury Parts

Postby Whalerdog » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:42 pm

A installed a new trim pump assembly on my 2007 Mercury [1]15-HP engine. A few days [later] and it sinks back into water. [This new replacement trim pump assembly was] only [installed] on [the engine for] a month.

I can't find length of warranty on parts or procedures for a claim.

dtmackey
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Re:Warranty on Mercury Parts

Postby dtmackey » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:48 pm

I was not aware Merc made a 215 outboard. Do you have more details on the motor and where you purchased? There's not [much] to a trim pump to go wrong. You may want to check the screw that allows the motor to be tilted manually to make sure it's fully seated.

D-

dtmackey
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Re: Mercury 2007 115 trim problem?

Postby dtmackey » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:00 pm

Before dumping on the trim unit, check the fluid level and also the manual trim override screw to make sure it's fully seated and not partially open allowing for it to tilt down. This would be common with any trim unit no matter the brand.

D-

Whalerdog
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Re: Warranty on Mercury Parts

Postby Whalerdog » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:26 pm

Sorry [the engine under discussion is a Mercury product year] 2007 115[-HP].

[To check the screw that allows the motor to be tilted manually to make sure it's fully seated] is a good idea--I'll check it.

jimh
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Re: 2007 Mercury 115 Power Trim System Problem

Postby jimh » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:49 am

I would expect that when a new OEM trim assembly is shipped there wouldn't be any fluid in the system. Generally the fluid will be added later, then the system has to purged of any air. Usually the installation instructions give a method for purging air from the system. Or the owner's manual will give a method for purging air from the system.

As DT' mentions, if there is any loss of hydraulic pressure from the manual pressure release port, the hydraulic system will not work properly. An insufficient volume of hydraulic fluid in the system will also cause the system to malfunction.

I infer from your narrative that you did not actually buy the replacement part yourself, but got it from a friend who apparently bought it from somewhere other than your local Mercury dealer. I also infer you installed the trim assembly yourself. Under those circumstances you might have some difficulty getting a remedy from the retailer who sold the pump to your friend, if the pump turns out to be actually defective and needs replacement.

Whalerdog
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Re: Warranty on Mercury Parts

Postby Whalerdog » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:31 pm

Checked [the manual pressure release valve and found] it is tight.

I guess [the cause of the engine failing to hold trim position is a] bad pump seal.

jimh
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Re: 2007 Mercury 115 Power Trim System Problem

Postby jimh » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:15 pm

Combined two threads by same OP on same topic.

Whalerdog wrote:I can't find length of warranty on parts or procedures for a claim.


Re the warranty on Mercury parts: I'd expect the most authoritative source of information on the duration of a warranty on a Mercury part would from a Mercury dealer or from Mercury. Anyone else's information would not be particularly authoritative. Check the bill of sale to see if it declares any limitation. Check the installation instructions that came with the OEM replacement part. They often express the warranty.

jimh
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Re: 2007 Mercury 115 Power Trim System Problem

Postby jimh » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:15 pm

Re your question if a hydraulic trim system has a checkvalve: yes, it probably has several. If you want to make repairs to or provide service for the hydraulic trim system on your 2007 Mercury 115-HP engine, I suggest you get the factory service manual. Typically the factory service manual will have a section dedicated just to the hydraulic power trim system. It will typically have diagrams of the hydraulic lines and valves. It will have procedures for making repairs. To perform repair work on a power trim hydraulic system without the service manual will likely be difficult.

The hydraulic power trim and tilt systems on outboard engines are often not made by then engine manufacturer. The engine manufacturer often buys the power trim assembly as a whole assembly, made by a vendor who specializes in those systems. The SHOWA company of Japan has been a major supplier for many years to outboard companies like Brunswick (Mercury).

Your comment that the replacement OEM part you purchased was made in China is quite interesting. That it failed in a few hours of use is also quite surprising. Perhaps Brunswick has gone to a Chinese manufacturer to replace SHOWA. SHOWA has some manufacturing facilities in China, but they seem to be mostly related to automotive parts, not outboard engine trim assemblies.

jimh
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Re: cause of problem is a bad pump seal

Postby jimh » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:18 pm

Whalerdog wrote:...I guess [the cause of the engine failing to hold trim position is a] bad pump seal.


If there were a bad seal in part of the hydraulic system, I would expect there would be evidence of hydraulic fluid escaping from the system. Have you found any evidence that hydraulic fluid is escaping from the system?

dtmackey
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Re: cause of problem is a bad pump seal

Postby dtmackey » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:05 pm

jimh wrote:
Whalerdog wrote:...I guess [the cause of the engine failing to hold trim position is a] bad pump seal.


If there were a bad seal in part of the hydraulic system, I would expect there would be evidence of hydraulic fluid escaping from the system. Have you found any evidence that hydraulic fluid is escaping from the system?


It is possible to have a trim unit that slowly drops (motor goes down) and not have a hydraulic fluid leak. The trim units are sealed, but do have many internal passages and bypasses that "could" have a problem, but if a new unit I think it would be unlikely. If it was a rebuilt unit, then it falls on the competency of the person rebuilding the the materials used.

Years ago I had a rebuilt trim unit behave the same way out of the box and before I could send it back under warranty, the tech had me check a number of things before issuing a return authorization under warranty. They are still in business, but no longer rebuild trim units.

D-

Whalerdog
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Re: 2007 Mercury 115 Power Trim System Problem

Postby Whalerdog » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:33 pm

Trim unit can have an internal leak with no fluid escaping. In Mercury box and did say made in china. Different from original unit design but bolts right in. Release valve is tight. Will pull boat and check fluid level again. Two thousand rpm and unit would not trim up. I have a service manual that states 1" drop in motor in 24 hr is permissible. This drops 8" in 24 hr. When I got the boat and motor new if I was running at 5,000 I could trim it right out of water till prop blew out. Motor will not do that now. Gets to point where it keeps dropping back down and going up.

When you ask around here about testing. No dealers have the proper equipment to test it. They just say we replace it all. I went through that last year when trying to diagnose if it was pump or motor with an internal leak.

Whalerdog
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Re: 2007 Mercury 115 Power Trim System Problem

Postby Whalerdog » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:40 pm

https://youtu.be/txPGKUIDjvE


That is at 2,000 RPM with trim button pressed continuously.

Pulling it out in morning.

New pumps look like this now

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayIS ... 9000&ver=0

Whalerdog
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Re: 2007 Mercury 115 Power Trim System Problem

Postby Whalerdog » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:45 am

Trim pumps are inherently self bleeding according to seloc manual I have. Low fluid would make pump work eratic. I will check today. You need a pressure gauge to check pressures going up and down which I don't have.

Whalerdog
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Re: 2007 Mercury 115 Power Trim System Problem

Postby Whalerdog » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:53 pm

Fluid is full. I'll be calling Merc tomorrow.

dtmackey
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Re: 2007 Mercury 115 Power Trim System Problem

Postby dtmackey » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:43 pm

Whalerdog wrote:Trim unit can have an internal leak with no fluid escaping. In Mercury box and did say made in china. Different from original unit design but bolts right in. Release valve is tight. Will pull boat and check fluid level again. Two thousand rpm and unit would not trim up. I have a service manual that states 1" drop in motor in 24 hr is permissible. This drops 8" in 24 hr. When I got the boat and motor new if I was running at 5,000 I could trim it right out of water till prop blew out. Motor will not do that now. Gets to point where it keeps dropping back down and going up.


The specs you call out for the motor dropping 1" in 24hrs shocks me and I'm surprised this is called out in a service manual and curious if this is specific to Mercury. I've only had one motor that exhibited any drop at all and it was a worn out unit that I replaced with a rebuilt. All the motors I've owned last through a winter storage with virtually no drop in the trim unit over 8 months (Yamaha and Evinrude), I do not use the trailer bracket lever to hold in a position and rely on just the tilt/trim rams.

D-

Whalerdog
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:08 pm

Re: 2007 Mercury 115 Power Trim System Problem

Postby Whalerdog » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:57 pm

Finally I found out there is a service bulletin out for bad check valve. I have to take boat to dealer. Technical rep I spoke to from Mercury should have checked this when I called last week. Not on the ball. Hopefully this comes to and end soon.