Classic Outrage 18 v. Classic Outrage 22

A conversation among Whalers
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Spinnaker
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Classic Outrage 18 v. Classic Outrage 22

Postby Spinnaker » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:33 pm

This general subject has been discussed before, but I am seeking a fresher perspective and your collective wisdom as applied to my particular circumstances.

I live in Connecticut on the shore of Long Island Sound. I currently own a 1981 13 Sport -- in excellent condition for its age -- with a 1992 Mercury Classic 40hp -- in respectable condition despite how hard I beat on it. It's a great little boat for most of my current uses, including cruising around the coast between Milford and Madison and exploring the many rivers and marsh areas in between. But I am looking for a classic Whaler that, weather depending, will get me and my passengers relatively comfortably across to Greenport, Montauk, or up to Block or Martha's Vineyard/the Cape, and perhaps to Boston or NYC on occasion. Perhaps overnighting here and there. I rarely have more than three passengers with me, but on occasion might have as many as five. On the other hand, I may or may not keep the 13 Sport, and I do not want to lose the ability to explore the in-shore. I also need to be able to trailer the boat behind a Jeep Wrangler. I do have a private floating dock (with precisely as much water as I need for the 13 Sport at low tide, i.e. 7 inches) and two pilings a little farther out. It's a fairly protected mooring location near the mouth of a river.

Based on the reference section on this site, many comments from the members here and others, and various other source material, I had settled on finding a late '80s Outrage 18, much like LHG's. It seemed to be the perfect compromise, and it has a classic look that has commanded my attention since childhood. More recently, however, I've been wondering whether I should just go for an Outrage 22 of the same vintage. What do you all think? And regardless of your opinion, what model year would you suggest? I'm generally looking at the 1986-90 range (both because of and despite my concerns about aged fuel tanks). Your thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks.

Marko888
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Re: Classic Outrage 18 vs. Classic Outrage 22

Postby Marko888 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:27 pm

I own a 1985 Outrage 18 and a 1984 Outrage Cuddy 22. I'm in the PNW so do not know your waters, but do have some info to share.

The fuel tank could be a problem with any year of classic Outrage, now that the "newest" ones are 25 years old. In the grand scheme of things, a bad fuel tank is fixable anyways, so I would not fret about this too much. My boats are both from the great lakes region, and still have their original fuel tanks. The fuel tank cover, which is the floor in the centre section, might need rebuilding in either as well.

The 18 can go most of the places a 22 can go, just in less comfort (think ride quality). It's a much lighter boat so can tend to bounce more then the 22 and it's shorter length means it cannot span the chop as well as the 22. The 22 ride is much better in choppy conditions.
4 adults is about the max in the 18 to not feel crowded. This being said, 4 feels crowded in the 18 for fishing. Our 22 Cuddy will be similar due to the space used by the cuddy, but an open bow 22 has a lot more room than an 18.

Towing an 18 with your Jeep should be dead easy. My 18 on it's single axle trailer weighs 3050 lbs full of fuel with single Suzuki DF140A engine.
I suspect a 22 might be too much work for the Jeep, but it may be tolerable on flat terrain. Trailer brakes mandatory. Our 22 and tandem trailer weighs 5100 lbs. when full of fuel with Mercury Optimax 225 engine. Note both weights quoted exclude tongue weight on our Tundra, and everyone's boat trailer combo will vary.

Both are great boats. We bought the 18 first, but found ourselves in open water a fair bit so I sought a 22 for this use. In somewhat protected or near shore waters, an 18 is likely sufficient, but in unprotected waters, a 22 is a more comfortable rig.
Mark
1984 Outrage Cuddy 22

fishtales
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Re: Classic Outrage 18 vs. Classic Outrage 22

Postby fishtales » Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:38 pm

I own a 1986 18' Outrage with a Etec 150. I run from Niantic as far north as Watch Hill and make the trip to Greenport through Plum Gut once or twice a summer. Boat runs well with 2 adults and 2 kids on nice weather days to both places. I still havent made the trip to Block Island, as running open water with the family is still a bit nerve racking even though I re-powered and the boat runs great.
I always wonder myself how nice it would be to have the same era 22' but ease of operating and maintaining the 18' and finally getting it to where I want leaves me with no immediate plans to upgrade. The majority of our boating is tubing, wake boarding and beaching it in all the areas near us and its great for all those days as well.
Its one of those things that either way you go you should be happy. I upgraded from a 86' Montauk and the difference in what the boat can handle is huge.
Good luck with your decision.

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Spinnaker
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Re: Classic Outrage 18 vs. Classic Outrage 22

Postby Spinnaker » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:07 am

Many thanks, both, for your helpful replies. Clearly, I have some more thinking to do.

moparharn
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Re: Classic Outrage 18 vs. Classic Outrage 22

Postby moparharn » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:07 pm

I was confronting a similar choice earlier this year when looking for a whaler to explore the islands of Northern Michigan. I have owned a few Montauk's and consider them seaworthy in most conditions. My concern was more passenger comfort, trailer ability, safety, redundant propulsion (see safety), and comfort at speed. In the end I did not think the 18 would address my passengers fear of water and was not ideal for the transom mounting of a kicker motor. I ended up with a Outrage 22 Cuddy and purchased a 9.9 Bigfoot to use as an auxiliary. My fishing background has always prejudiced my opinion in favor of the open Outrage and not the Cuddy. Now that I own one, I cannot see being without it. The Cuddy's toilet is a must have, and the ability to get out of weather provides the false sense of security I need for my passengers. :) Water you are talking about doing is similar to my needs minus the trailer ability. Two options I would hope to find would be the super console and the rear bench seat. The bench seat can be added while the console is likely not going to happen unless you purchase with one. My boat is using 7.9 gallons per hour at 3850 rpm and 26 knot speed. The motor is a 2003 Optimax 225. I have never been a fan of Mercury, however, after owning this one I cannot see why I would want something else. I got lucky and found a one owner Michigan boat that had only 21 hours on the motor. There are a few nice Whalers running around the Great Lakes. The difference between showroom and my boat is very, very little. The 22 is the ideal "big" little boat. Good luck!

padrefigure
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Re: Classic Outrage 18 vs. Classic Outrage 22

Postby padrefigure » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:37 pm

I own both and agree with the comments above. Our 22 Outrage spends its life on a lift, so trailering is not a problem. It is MUCH heavier to tow than an the 18. We also have a 13 and on weekends away from the coast, we alternate between the 13 and the 18 for trips on the lake. The 13 is more fun, but we can carry more stuff in the 18. If it is just me and the wife, protected waters and the 13 are usually the choice. If kids want to ski, then the 18 gets the nod.

One thing that I would say--our 22 is a 1984 model with the deep splash well. I much prefer the wider, shallow splash well with the full width dam of the 1987 and later models. Knowing that now, I would keep looking until I found that combination.

At some point, we will consolidate our fleet into an Offshore 27 that lives on the lift and probably the 13. We have no clue when that point will be.

jimh
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Re: Classic Outrage 18 v. Classic Outrage 22

Postby jimh » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:30 pm

The narrow sink splash well is used on the Outrage 22 up to the c.1990 models, when the molds were changed and the full-width splash well was added. This change made the 22 hull congruent with the 18 and 25 hulls. Taking some water over the transom notch in the older 22 hulls puts the water right on the cockpit deck, whereas on the newer models with the full width well that water is contained in the well. The newer hulls are not as common and may be hard to find.

DeeVee
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Re: Classic Outrage 18 v. Classic Outrage 22

Postby DeeVee » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:49 pm

Jim,

Actually, the 1989 model year 22' hulls incorporated the full width, shallow splash well. My Outrage 22 is a 1989 model with the full width splash well configuration. The only drawback of the configuration is a lack of a drain plug at the lowest point of the hull.

Doug Vazquez

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Re: Classic Outrage 18 v. Classic Outrage 22

Postby jimh » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:24 am

My 1990 Revenge 22 has the sink splash well.

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Re: Classic Outrage 18 v. Classic Outrage 22

Postby jimh » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:21 am

Regarding the precise epoch when the molds changed for the cockpit of the OUTRAGE 22 boat, we have three citations in this thread:

--DEEVEE says "...the 1989 model year 22' hulls incorporated the full width, shallow splash well...;"

--PADRE' says "...the wider, shallow splash well with the full width dam of the 1987 and later models...;"

--and I mentioned "The narrow sink splash well is used on the Outrage 22 up to the c.1990 models...;"

We now have three dates: 1987, 1989, and c.1990. The reason I mention "circa 1990" is due to this sort of ambiguity. As far as I am concerned, "1989" and "c.1990" are the same dates. I think 1987 is a bit early for 22-foot hulls to have the new splash well design, but perhaps we can have further confirmation of this from someone who has a model year 1987 boat or a model year 1988 boat made in 1987 that has the new splash well design.

No matter precisely when the design changed, I think the wider engine splash well is still preferred. I was boating last week with a fine example of the newer OUTRAGE 22 boat with the full width splash well. The boat has a single main engine and an auxiliary engine on the transom, the aft live well was being used as a cooler and was full of ice and provisions, the fuel tank was nearly full, and additional gear was stored on deck in the stern. The splash well drains were below the static water line and the engine splash well held about two or three inches of water.

The OUTRAGE 22 hulls with the narrow sink splash well have a very low drain outlet that is well below the water line. This is usually left open to the sea. Those splash wells contain about a foot or more of water all the time.

dgoodhue
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Re: Classic Outrage 18 v. Classic Outrage 22

Postby dgoodhue » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:26 am

In the late 80's, Boston Whaler acquired some manufacturing facilities in FL and started a slow transition to move production from the south shore of Boston to Florida. I wonder if the Outrage 22 production was done in both facilities and the splash well difference might be due to where the hull was manufactured. By the way, I have no idea if Boston Whaler had overlapped hull production in both locations.

jimh
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Re: Classic Outrage 18 v. Classic Outrage 22

Postby jimh » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:47 am

I would not be surprised if some hulls were made in Florida with the new molds, while other hulls were made in Rockland with the old molds. My 1990 22-foot hull--a REVENGE model--was molded in Rockland and it has the sink splashwell.

Molokai whaler
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Re: Classic Outrage 18 v. Classic Outrage 22

Postby Molokai whaler » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:25 pm

My 1988 22' outrage has a full width deep splash well, and is always half full of water when standing still. But once under power it drains out. Not sure when they changed the design, but I'm thinking it's after 1988.
1988 22' outrage w/ custom Walk around cab

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Re: Classic Outrage 18 v. Classic Outrage 22

Postby jimh » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:32 pm

Full-width and deep just don't go together in OUTRAGE 22 splash wells. Perhaps you can give us a look at the aft cockpit of your 1988 OUTRAGE 22 so this can be disambiguated.