CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

A conversation among Whalers
mikewillsmith
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CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby mikewillsmith » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:44 am

I'm looking for some first hand experience [with two-cycle and four-cycle outboard engines]. I [may buy one of] two used Conquest boats. One CONQUEST has [twin] 2000 Yamaha 250-HP two-stroke-power-cycle outboard engines with super-low hours. The other CONQUEST has newer Honda F225 four-stroke-power-cycle engines with 300 hours. I know everyone seems to love the four-stroke-power-cycle engine, but what are your thoughts [about which CONQUEST should be purchased]?

I have had Suzuki 150-HP two-stroke-power-cycle engines on my Revenge for years and they have been 100-percent trouble free. I also have a 15-footer; we changed to a new Yamaha F70 from an older Yamaha 70 [two-stroke-power-cycle engine], and I miss the punch of the two-stroke engine.
2002 29.5 Conquest, 1986 15 Super Sport, 1995 17 Montauk

Acseatsri
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby Acseatsri » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:54 am

I have a 2013 Honda 250 and couldn't be happier with it. It also about 30-percent more efficient than most engines under 4500-RPM. The older Yamaha 250 engine are gas hogs, but they run very well. The [two-stroke-power-cycle engines on the CONQUEST] will affect [the boat's] range significantly if you are considering offshore runs.

jimh
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby jimh » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:35 pm

In general I would be chary buying any older engine that has "super-low" running time. Engines that are not run very much and are old are not always the best buy. Sitting around and not running for 20-years does not mean "like-new."

The Honda four-stroke-power-cycle engines--are there any other kind of Honda engines?--are noted for having excellent longevity, so having 300-hours of running time is really not much.

Certainly the performance of the same boat with twin 250-HP engines will be better than with twin 225-HP engine.

Your inquiry elicits many questions. What model CONQUEST are you planning to buy? What is the horsepower rating of the boat? Has Boston Whaler published performance data for the boat? What model and year of production are the Honda engines? (There are recent model changes and the newer models are quite different from older engines.) What model year are the Yamaha engines? What is the price difference? What are your objectives for the boat? Do you want the fastest time to plane, greatest top speed? Do you want quiet, smooth, reliable, no-smoke engines?

All of these considerations factor into your decision.

kwik_wurk
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby kwik_wurk » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:22 pm

Comment: super low hours to me would be less than 50 hrs. -- And how old are the respective boats, one with Yamaha is circa 2000, and the other boats same vintage or newer?

What type of 2 strokes? I would expect that these are actually HPDI engines--which if maintained should be decent motors.

Without vintage and material condition it's a rather broad guess as to which better. The c.2000 with Yamaha could have been heated-garage kept and used sparingly in summer freshwater, then fully serviced for the winter, and hence basically like new, and have a $15,000 difference. That buys you a LOT of gas if you are worried about the fuel economy economics; and worst case shop time if you need it, or a head start on a re-power if that is what you might do eventually.

Acseatsri
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby Acseatsri » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:55 pm

Re Yamaha HPDI engines: if they are HPDI engines, I'd avoid them. There have been two powerhead failures on boats at my marina. If they're OX66 engines, they're pretty much bulletproof motors, just very thirsty.

Matter of fact, in the last few years, two 225 Yamaha motors c.2003 to c.2005 have gone bad due to corrosion as well as the HPDI engines, and last week a 2013 250 Yamaha ate a powerhead due to something in the valve train letting go--luckily still under warranty.

mikewillsmith
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby mikewillsmith » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:58 pm

The hulls are the same, 2000 Conquest 28 boats.

My goals are for long term engine reliability. I rarely go offshore. I'm used to noise [from a two-stroke-power-cycle engine]. New four-stroke-power-cycle engines are nice, but everything I read about the 2000 Yamaha OX66 engines says they are workhorses.

I don't know the year of the Honda engines; I will find out on Tuesday when I see the boat in person.

The 2000 Yamaha engine are said to have 150 hours, and, from the photos, they look new. I will see that boat in person on Wednesday.

The Whaler with the Honda engines is $10,000-more in price, but the one with the Yamaha engines shows much better (in photos). The hull and cabin look much cleaner.

Half of me wants the hard hitting power of the 250-HP two-stroke-power-cycle engines and to go for the better overall looking boat. Half of me wants the Honda engines because, if they are anything like my Suzuki engines, they would be nice to have around.
2002 29.5 Conquest, 1986 15 Super Sport, 1995 17 Montauk

jimh
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby jimh » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:05 am

The influence of a difference in fuel economy on the operating cost of the boat really depends on how many hours per year you will run the boat and how much gasoline costs. If you put 200-hours every season on the boat and fuel costs $6/gallon, you will appreciate having better fuel economy. If you are an average boat user, you might put about 50-hours on the engines, and if you are in the USA you can buy fuel for about $3/gallon. A third variable is the average fuel consumption per hour. This depends on how you run the boat.

As KWIK' mentioned, $15,000 in your pocket will buy a lot of gasoline in the next ten years.

Boat ownership is really irrational, at least when it comes to things like outboard engines. If you really like the boat with two-stroke-power-cycle engines, and it is cleaner and nicer, and $15,000 lower in price--go for it.

Another point of view: if the boats have similar value, then the asking price for the boat with Honda engines is saying the seller thinks they are each worth $7,500 more than the older Yamaha engines. I don't think a used 225-HP HONDA outboard would sell for $7,500 if you detached it from the transom of that CONQUEST.

Ridge Runner
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby Ridge Runner » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:51 am

Make sure you sea-trail both boats. The older, pre 2004, Conquests 28's and 295 (the same boat - ~31' in length, 6,600LBS dry weight, 10'4" beam), have a notched hull. The hull is shorter than the boat. These earlier Conquests are designed for lighter two stroke engines and the original factory power was twin Mercury Optmax 225's. I owned a 2002 Conquest 295 with twin Optimax 225's and had to go to Mercury Revolution 4 propeller's to get good stern lift that helped me attain decent planning times. Owners of earlier Conquests who have repowered with newer, heavier 4-strokes complain that the boat is difficult to get up on plane. The lack of planing surface of the hull and the heavier motors aft can really make the boat struggle to get up on plane.

Each Mercury Optimax 225 weighs ~497lbs, Each Yamaha OX66 250 weighs ~493lbs, Each Honda 225 weighs ~610lbs.

This is a large and wide boat, with a dry weight of 6,600lbs, engines, 3 batteries (two starting and one house), 2 - 150 gallon saddle fuel tanks, live well, 32 gallons of fresh water, fish boxes, water heater, possibly an A/C unit, genset and the hard top, with 4 people on board you could easily be around 11,000lbs.

Honda makes a great motor but I would bet those 225's will struggle bring that boat on plane. As a side note my boat (no a/c or genset) at 4000 RPM ran 28mph burning about 23 gph with the Optimax 225's.
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mikewillsmith
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby mikewillsmith » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:36 am

Thanks. The Honda engines are 2003 vintage, and they have four-blade propellers. That boat was clean, but now I am concerned about the planing. The broker would not allow a sea trial until an offer is placed. I sea trial the one with the old Yamaha engine today.
2002 29.5 Conquest, 1986 15 Super Sport, 1995 17 Montauk

Ridge Runner
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby Ridge Runner » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:00 am

The Yamaha powered boat will definitely get on plane much easier. For $15,000 in price difference I would go with the Yamaha powered boat - run it for a few years and put the $15k in a re-power kitty. This hull is rated for 600HP and a prefect re-power would be twin Evinrude E-Tec 300 outboards ~500lbs each. Good luck with your sea-trails.
Member since 2005
2005 170 Montauk, 2010 E-TEC 115 H.O.
2016 210 Montauk, 2017 E-TEC G2 200 H.O.

"Red sky at night, sailor’s delight - Red sky in the morning, sailor’s warning”

mikewillsmith
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby mikewillsmith » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:43 pm

Sea trial of the Yamaha powered boat went fine, but the boat is in rough shape. It jumped up on plane with no problems at all, and was full of fuel.

I will be going back to the Honda powered boat for a sea trial.
2002 29.5 Conquest, 1986 15 Super Sport, 1995 17 Montauk

mikewillsmith
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby mikewillsmith » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:03 pm

Just to finish this off, I drove the Conquest with the 225 Hondas today. It was full of fuel and 3 people on board, same as the boat yesterday. It got up on plane quickly, only a few seconds (like 3 or 4) slower than the one with the 2 stroke Yamahas. It wasn't a problem at all, maybe 3 seconds slower than my Revenge.
2002 29.5 Conquest, 1986 15 Super Sport, 1995 17 Montauk

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Dutchman
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby Dutchman » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:56 pm

So which one did you get??
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Ridge Runner
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby Ridge Runner » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:49 pm

Yes, which one?
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2005 170 Montauk, 2010 E-TEC 115 H.O.
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"Red sky at night, sailor’s delight - Red sky in the morning, sailor’s warning”

Pete r
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Re: CONQUEST: Yamaha Two-cycle v. Honda Four-cycle

Postby Pete r » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:47 pm

Hi guys. I have a 250-HP Honda powering my 21 Conquest. It's been terrific. So reliable.