Marine Sanitation

A conversation among Whalers
Gasman059
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Marine Sanitation

Postby Gasman059 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:11 pm

Now that my daughters are getting into fishing I would like to modernize and understand my [Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 24 boat's marine head]. My Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 24 has a 964MSD. I would like to upgrade to a newer version perhaps the 970 Sani-Poti series. That part should be simple, the rest of the equation I need a refresher. I have looked at the diagrams from Boston Whaler: turn valve; turn key; macerator should take care of it--offshore 3 miles.

Is water utilized for flushing the one in the underside holding tank?

Or, when valve is used raw water does the trick?

Perhaps all of the Boston Whaler boat buffs can give me a refresher--I would be greatful.

The system has not been used prior to this. I don't know if previous owner [used it]. I should have looked into this.

Any recommendations for cleaning going forward would be greatly appreciated.

Gasman059
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby Gasman059 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:16 pm

[The marine sanitation device]
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jimh
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby jimh » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:55 am

I have looked at the diagrams from Boston Whaler...


If you have an original Boston Whaler diagram of the plumbing of the marine sanitation system on your Boston Whaler boat, you probably have the best source of information available about the plumbing of the marine sanitation system on your Boston Whaler boat.

As can happen with any portion of the original fitting-out of a boat once it has left the builder, there may be modifications to the plumbing of the marine sanitation system on your Boston Whaler boat that were made after it left the factory. There is no way to be aware of these modifications other than to make a close visual inspection of all the plumbing, hoses, valves, inlets, outlets, tanks, and pumps associated with the present system on your boat. Since no readers have access to your boat, the person with the best opportunity to perform this visual inspection is you.

In general, there is not a lot of flying-saucer technology in marine sanitation, and the workings of the system should not be too difficult to discover. Since you plan to abandon the current marine sanitation device and install a new device in its place, I am sure the manufacturer of the new device will have installation instructions which will be helpful in determining how to install his product. Typically there are just two connections: water inlet, waste outlet. An inference can be made about which port is for which purpose by the diameter; the waste outlet port is usually larger in diameter than the water inlet.

Gasman059
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby Gasman059 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:32 am

Thanks for your time Ill dig up the diagrams and keep this going if theres any interest.

Jefecinco
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby Jefecinco » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:06 am

Gasman,

As I'm sure many will attest the ladies are not over fond of portable potties. The more mature they are the less likely they are to enjoy sitting on the things. Frankly, I'm not too fond of them myself.

As long as you're going to replace your existing throne I suggest you look into a true MSD with overboard discharge and holding tank. The holding tank should be plumbed to accommodate dockside pump out hoses for inshore use. The expense is probably worthwhile if the ladies are happy. There is a type that operates using vacuum. I'm sure it serves very well over time but I've heard a few horror stories about them. Manual systems are more complex but are "field repairable" so a failure at sea is not an outing great.

Do your homework for the best outcome and good luck.
Butch

Gasman059
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby Gasman059 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:30 am

Butch thanks, I do have a waste plate on my starboard side , but then again Ive never been in this mid size CC world. Ive had previous BW 13-15-17 and went away from CC to sportfishermans and just recently fell into this 24 CC. The kids enjoy going out to the reef and hanging out and it presents the current dilemma. Im not familiar with this particular whaler and its sanitation system and was hoping someone was. Thanks again for your post.

jimh
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:52 pm

I am a bit confused about the meaning of "waste plate." I didn't recognize the term, and when I Googled it, I found studies about food being wasted per plate called plate-waste. That can't be what is being discussed here.

Perhaps you can elaborate about the waste plate that is on the starboard side of your boat. I am guessing perhaps you are trying to describe a fitting on the boat that allows the contents of a waste holding tank to be pumped out, which I think is more commonly called a pump-out port. If you think 'waste plate" is a better term, could you cite some other instances of it being used this way?

If "waste plate" means pump-out port, then your Boston Whaler boat probably had at one time and perhaps still has a marine sanitation holding tank that receives the output of the pump in the marine head. Sometimes on older boats--ones constructed before more stringent laws about discharge of raw sewage into the water from recreational boats were implemented--there may a valve, often called a Y-Valve because of the shape, which allows the output of the marine head to be pumped directly overboard. This was alleged to be used when offshore in the ocean, where the laws permitted it. But I suspect that such discharges might have been made sometimes when a bit closer to shore.

I recommend checking the applicable boating laws in your area about direct discharge of a toilet into the seawater. I am certain you will find there is some regulation of that practice. (It is outlawed on the Great Lakes.)

fno
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby fno » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:45 pm

Waste plate might be a reference to the legend plate that is installed when there are "facilities" aboard. The plate generally describes the rules and procedures for use of said device in various waters.

jimh
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:44 pm

Hi Frank. I think there is a federal regulation about carrying a discharge notice aboard a vessel. See the Code of Federal Regulations at 33 CFR PART 151—VESSELS CARRYING OIL, NOXIOUS LIQUID SUBSTANCES, GARBAGE, MUNICIPAL OR COMMERCIAL WASTE, AND BALLAST WATER.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECF ... RT&ty=HTML

33 CFR 151.59 specifies that a PLACARD must be displayed. They don't call it a "waste plate."

hauptjm
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby hauptjm » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:41 pm

From the 2003 Boston Whaler Parts list for a 24 ft. Outrage (for thru-hull fittings):

Deck Plate, Waste SS ( I would assume Stainless Steel) - part #1109347

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Dutchman
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby Dutchman » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:39 am

[A waste plate is] a stainless steel circular plate on the deck with the word "Waste" on it and two small round holes (not thru drilled) for a special key tool to screw it in place. When opened this is used to vacuum the sewage waste out of the holding tank to which it is attached.

Have your boat safety inspected by USCG, or Auxiliary, or a Power Squadron, Vessel Examiner and you will get a free MARPOL [placard] stating what you can't or can discharge at certain ranges in the ocean. I recommend you never discharge anything, just bring back what you take, in any form.

To the OP; follow Jefecinco's advice; he's right. I know speaking from experience. You better know where there is a real toilet available because a boat landing outhouse John won't do and a bucket (even with a toilet seat) gets frowned upon.
EJO
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jimh
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby jimh » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:32 pm

So "waste plate" is some new lingo for "pump out fitting"?

What threw me off was the use of "plate", which I never association with a way to get to liquid in a tank. For example, there is a circular deck fitting that I remove to add gasoline fuel, but I have never heard anyone ever call it a "fuel plate." Have you?

"Plate" seemed to confuse Frank (fno), too, as he thought it meant placard.

I really think pump out fitting is a better and more universally understood term than waste plate.

jimh
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby jimh » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:16 pm

Dutchman wrote:[A waste plate is] a stainless steel circular plate on the deck with the word "Waste" on it ...


So far your definition is reasonable. The "plate" is just that, a plate, and perhaps it has some legend inscribed on it to identify it from several other almost identical deck mounted gizmos.

Dutchman wrote:...and two small round holes (not thru drilled) for a special key tool to screw it in place....


Now you are off the tracks. The plate is just an escutcheon around a plumbing fitting on the deck. The plate never gets removed. It stays screwed to the deck. The tool that screws the plate in place is a screwdriver to turn the mounting screws. The special tool works on the plumbing fitting, a cap mechanism to seal a hose.

Dutchman wrote:When opened this is used to vacuum the sewage waste out of the holding tank to which it is attached.


Yes, when the plumbing fitting which is mounted in the escutcheon plate is removed, you can get to the hose that leads to a tank. It is typical that a boat might have several of these, for access to fuel tanks, drinking water tanks, gray water holding tanks, and sanitation waste tanks. They often use the same plumbing fitting to act as a cap to the hoses connected to the tanks. To identify these otherwise identical plumbing fittings, different escutcheon plates are used, or, the caps are engraved. But the permanent plate escutcheon is probably better because that cannot be removed. The caps could get switched, and create a lot of confusion.

Note that there are "deck access plates" which can be removed. But these plates do not lead to open hoses connected tanks. They just lead to open spaces under the deck.

Hoosier
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby Hoosier » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:41 pm

On my 23 WA there are fittings for GAS, on the Port side gunnel, WATER, on the port console pillar, and WASTE, on the starboard gunnel. As Jim mentions, they are all the same size so a careless owner,( we don't have any any of those here), but there are many, could "accidentally" switch the caps that have the labels on them. It has been known to happen that the WATER and GAS caps got switched and......
1978 Outrage V20 with 2004 Suzuki DF-115. 1992 23 Walkaround with two 2010 Yamaha F-150s.

Jefecinco
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby Jefecinco » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:27 am

I'm glad to have only a single fitting on our 190 Montauk. It is for GAS and in the engine well. It is secured to the inside of the port with a chain. On a SeaRay Sundancer we previously owned we had the three fittings described by Hoosier also secured by chains. We often get fuel at fuel docks and would have lost the GAS fitting on the SeaRay many times.

No matter how much we try to "idiot proof" our boats we continue to hear of gasoline tanks filled with diesel and vice versa, bilges pumped full of fuel through gunnel mounted rod holders and even fresh water and waste tanks filled with fuel.
Butch

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Dutchman
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby Dutchman » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:13 am

jimh wrote:
Dutchman wrote:[A waste plate is] a stainless steel circular plate on the deck with the word "Waste" on it ...


So far your definition is reasonable. The "plate" is just that, a plate, and perhaps it has some legend inscribed on it to identify it from several other almost identical deck mounted gizmos.

Dutchman wrote:...and two small round holes (not thru drilled) for a special key tool to screw it in place....


Now you are off the tracks. The plate is just an escutcheon around a plumbing fitting on the deck. The plate never gets removed. It stays screwed to the deck. The tool that screws the plate in place is a screwdriver to turn the mounting screws. The special tool works on the plumbing fitting, a cap mechanism to seal a hose.

Note that there are "deck access plates" which can be removed. But these plates do not lead to open hoses connected tanks. They just lead to open spaces under the deck.


WOW Jim sorry about my English next time I'll write it in Dutch, or German but all my escutcheons that were on the 17 cabin type over 25ft boats I owned that had water, waste, and fuel tanks, NEVER lead to open spaces under my decks. Not in the 1951 model all the way through the 2001 model, all different manufacturers.
All these deck fittings/escutcheons were connected below deck with hoses to either the waste tank, the potable water tank, or the fuel tank. All caps were identified sometimes with a word like 'waste' or 'poop' or a symbol. All were internally chained/fastened to the escutcheon in order to not interchange them or have them fall overboard as they most often were screwed down on the side decks. Also in order to not inter-change them quite often they were different sizes.

I hope we all now got it correct with your explanation and my addition.
Regards,
EJO
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jimh
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby jimh » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:33 pm

Dutchman wrote:...all...escutcheons that were on the 17...boats I owned...NEVER lead to open spaces under my decks...


The escutcheon is not removeable--it cannot lead to anything and never will. An escutcheon surrounds the access plate in order to identify the function of the access plate.

The access plate is removable. Access plates lead to some sort of otherwise inaccessible and covered space.

Dutchman wrote:...next time I'll write it in Dutch, or German...


I don't think many readers are fluent in Dutch so I would not recommend posting in Dutch, or even in German. If it will help, a technical translation of "escutcheon" into Dutch is may be "wapenschild".

In order to find word meaning I usually rely on Merriman-Webster:

escutcheon: :protective or ornamental plate or flange (as around a keyhole)


I hope that helps explain the difference between an escutcheon plate and an access plate.

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Dutchman
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby Dutchman » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:05 pm

jimh wrote:The escutcheon is not removeable--it cannot lead to anything and never will. An escutcheon surrounds the access plate in order to identify the function of the access plate.

Check with your plumber as many escutcheons in your house are removable to create access to what's behind and most are not around a keyhole like M-W says.

jimh wrote:The access plate is removable. Access plates lead to some sort of otherwise inaccessible and covered space.

I agree

jimh wrote:I don't think many readers are fluent in Dutch so I would not recommend posting in Dutch, or even in German. If it will help, a technical translation of "escutcheon" into Dutch is may be "wapenschild".

You are right we'll keep in in American English. As for your "Google" translation to Dutch that is completely wrong because a "wapenschild" is a Code of Arms. Literally the word comes from a shield as used by the Knights/gladiators to fend off against weapons(Dutch=shild voor wapens or "wapenschild") The better Dutch word for escutcheon would be "rozet" for use with a key-hole, a plumbing cover/access or to finish something decorative on a boat.

jimh wrote:In order to find word meaning I usually rely on Merriman-Webster:

Not always the best thing although most of the time correct.
escutcheon: :protective or ornamental plate or flange (as around a keyhole)

Yes a protective plate that could cover something up that needs to be accessible and/or finished off.

jimh wrote:I hope that helps explain the difference between an escutcheon plate and an access plate.

It does we all should be educated now. Thanks.
EJO
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jimh
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Re: Marine Sanitation

Postby jimh » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:26 pm

In electronics "escutheon" is often used to refer to a plate or panel surrounding a control that has the name of the function that the control operates. For example, on a rotary switch an escutcheon is often used to denote which position of the rotary switch controls what function. Here is an example of a rotary switch escutcheon plate, marked with icons instead of text, from an automotive headlight application:

switchEscutcheon.png
Manufacturer's description: Switch Escutcheon
switchEscutcheon.png (15.87 KiB) Viewed 6284 times


The purpose of the escutcheon is to provide information about the switch, that is, the device the escutcheon surrounds. You generally do not, in the process of using the control or device that the escutcheon is surrounding, remove or move the escutcheon.

I believe that in PLUMBING the term escutcheon is used in exactly the same way. Here is an example of a result from a GOOGLE IMAGE search for "plumber escutcheon":

Image

It is clear this escutcheon is the exact same sort of device as in electronic controls: it provides a legend or explanation of the control function. You do not remove or move the escutcheon in any manner during normal operation.