Input on Upgrade to 200 Dauntless

[TP848]

[I am] looking for input on whether [I should] upgrade to a 2010 200 Dauntless from my current 2005 180 Dauntless. My 180 has a 135 Optimax (with 250-hours of run time), Lenco trim tabs, fishing package option, raw water washdown, and Lowrance electronics. The 200 has a 200 Verado (with 100 hour of run time), no gunwale rod holders, no raw water washdown, no trim tabs, and Garmin electronics. I'm enticed by the extra two feet, the VERADO engine, the head, and five-year newer boat. Not sure if it's really worth the purchase and been flipping back and forth.

[TP848]

Any Dauntless 200 owner input would be much appreciated. Even if you can't compare to the 180.

[BuddysWhaler]

TP848--I have a 2009 200 Dauntless [with] a Mercury Verado 200-HP. The boat has the fishing package [with] the trolling motor wiring and the live well helm seat. The engine is a beast. [Acceleration at full throttle from a standing start is] incredible with the supercharger, but [the engine] idles smoothly. I have owned the 200 DAUNTLESS going on three seasons. I bought the 200 DAUNTLESS from an estate sale. The 200 DAUNTLESS had been idle for a couple of years with less than 100-hours. [The engine] now has 185-hours with flawless operation. [I] had my mechanic go through the engine, [installing] new spark plugs, impeller, water pump, oil, grease, and etc.

As a reference, I previously had a Regal 2200 Bowrider [with] a 5.0 liter Mercruiser. Great boat [with] 55-MPH top end, plenty of power, and torque. The Verado provides twice the performance [and is] less expensive to maintain.

I normally have four adults, a couple of kids on board for water sports and four to six adults for cruising. For fishing there is no more than three adults. Top end is 46 to 48-MPH depending on the load and seas. The 200 DAUNTLESS does not need trim tabs, regardless of the load or activity. he Verado has the stock stainless propeller.

I do miss the extra two feet. of my Regal for adult seating and the extra weight of the boat. Due to the 200 Dauntless lower weight, the hull does pound slightly more than my Regal in two-foot seas.

I periodically investigate used 220 or 230 Dauntless boats with a VERADO 250-HP, but I hate the thought of selling my 200 Dauntless. I have one minor complaint: the center console rises 6-feet 1-inch from the waterline making it difficult to get under many bridges on our lake. I am seriously thinking of fitting a lower grab rail and plastic wind screen enabling full access to all 350-miles of our lake.

The head compartment is nice, but tight for adult use. I removed the Port a Potti and use the area for storage. My 200 Dauntless does not have raw water washdown; [I] don't need it with a good deck brush and water hose [at] my dock.

I believe you would see significant improvement in the room, ride, and performance of the Dauntless 200 [with] the 200 Verado. I would definitely have a sea trial in the 200 Dauntless.

One other note, you will notice significant improvement in the electrical throttle and shift controls (DTS) and hydraulic steering.

You can order factory rod holders from Boston Whaler or go to a marine supply store to satisfy that need. I think the 200 Dauntless with the 200-HP Verado is the way to go on a boat-to-boat comparison with the 180 Dauntless.

Best Wishes.

[TP848]

BuddysWhaler - Thank you so much for the reply. The information you provided was very helpful.

Is the ride pretty dry?

As much as I want to make the move, it's very tough because I love my 180.

[BuddysWhaler]

Yes, the ride is dry despite I am on a large lake without the changing conditions of the ocean. We do experience a lot of cross wakes on busy summer weekends which she handles very well. I think a sea trial will provide the motivation after you experience the performance of the Verado with the 20-foot Dauntless; outstanding combo!

[jimh]

Where is the line between "pretty dry" and wet?

[BuddysWhaler]

Line between dry & wet: If I at the helm or my guests, fore & aft get wet from spray operating at any speed, that is wet. Has not occurred in two seasons with my Whaler. However, operating on the same Lake with my former 22' Regal bowrider, on two separate occasions, my guests in the bow got soaked when we hit a large(3 ft+) cross wake running about 25 MPH. In short, my BW Dauntless 200 is a very dry boat. So take a sea trial in that Dauntless 200 with the 200-HP Verado; you will be impressed, assuming the boat and motor are in good tune.

ASIDE: Raymond Hunt, the naval architect who designed the Whalers, is acknowledged as the best in the business. As a thirteen year old growing up on Cape Cod in 1960, Padanaram, MA, I loved power boats. I walked into a shop in Padanaram Village to look at all the boat sketches. It turned out to be Ray Hunt's shop. He was working on a radical new deep-vee bottom design for offshore powerboat racing, specifically for the Miami to Nassau race. Bertram Yachts had commissioned Ray Hunt to come up with a winning design. The prototype Bertram, Hunt-designed, MOPPIE was born in that Padanaram shop. I watched the prototype 31-foot Moppie in sea trials in Buzzards Bay. She was fast and sliced through big seas like a knife. The deep-vee design Moppie went on to win a couple of Miami-to-Nassau races and revolutionized power boat design. About that same time, Ray Hunt came up with the first Boston Whaler design, a 13' 6" open bow runabout which would not sink, the first of what you and I now enjoy. Sorry for the long story! Whaler design has a long and successful legacy translating into a very dry (no spray) and comfortable ride thanks to Mr. Ray Hunt, Naval Architect extraordinaire, now Ray Hunt & Associates.

[jimh]

ASIDE (on a completely tangential topic of who designed the Boston Whaler boat):

Raymond Hunt, the naval architect who designed the Whalers...

I think you are giving much too much credit to Mr. Hunt. I don't think he was involved with Boston Whaler design much beyond the first 13-foot hull. Dick Fisher, Bob Dougherty, Peter Van Lanker, and a host of in-house designers are the people who "designed the Whalers."

The early Boston Whaler boats did not have vee-bottom hulls, the Hunt trademark.

[jimh]

Re "pretty dry":

Whether spray comes aboard depends on the angle the boat is making into the waves and the wind strength. I have run my Boston Whaler boat upwind into head seas and strong winds and seen the windward side weather canvas being drenched in spray, and that spray would have soaked me if not for the canvas. The hull throws the spray off, but the strong wind throws it right back into the boat.

Taking waves over the bow when going straight into head seas when you have a bow-rider open cockpit and there are two adults sitting in the bow is probably unavoidable; it's not really a function of the hull bottom but more a function of weight distribution. On small boats if two adults sit in the bow forepeak the trim will be down-by-the-bow.

[TP848]

Thanks again for the great information. I would love to take it for a sea trial but being in Michigan, that won't be possible for a while. Unfortunately I know there are other people looking and are interested in the boat as well. As far as the "pretty dry" question, I know first hand going from a Montauk 170 to the Dauntless 180 was a major difference. Even though the size difference was not that much, the ride and spray was major. I know the Dauntless hull was redesigned in 2008 and I believe the entry is sharper on the pre 2008 hulls (2002-2007). So I was just wondering your opinion of the ride.
I really apprececiate your reponses BuddysWhaler.

[BuddysWhaler]

To jimh:
Thanks for your insight re spray which I can envision on many volatile salt water or Great Lake conditions. I have experienced same on Buzzards Bay, MA, though not in my Dauntless. As stated and to answer TP848's question, my earlier explanation involves my current operating conditions on a large, man made lake with 350 miles of shoreline. The waves do not come close to dynamic, ocean conditions at any time. Under my Lake conditions, my Dauntless has kept the spray off me and my passengers.
Re Ray Hunt, yes, he was responsible for the original Whaler design and I realize they were not the deep vee, "Moppie" design. In various Whaler marketing releases, I read / heard Hunt's Design Group receiving credit for a few of the newer, larger Whalers. Over the last 56+ years, I am certain other qualified architects have influenced the designs, in conjunction with ownership changes. Regardless, the Boston Whaler remains the "Gold Standard" for which other manufacturers strive.

[jimh]

...I know first hand going from a Montauk 170 to the Dauntless 180 was a major difference [in the ride].

I am really surprised by that observation. Here are the comparables from the factory specifications for the two models:

180 DAUNTLESS
Length = 18-feet 1-inch
Beam = 8-foot 1-inch
Weight = 2,781-lbs

170 MONTAUK
Length = 17-feet
Beam = 6-foot 10-inches
Weight = 1,890-lbs

The 180 DAUNTLESS is only 13-inches longer, but its weight is 891-lbs greater. An increase of 891-lbs from a hull weight of 1,890-lbs is a 47-percent increase in weight. An increase in hull length of 13-inches from a 17-foot hull is an increase in length of 6-percent in hull length. I suspect that much of the difference in the characteristics of "the ride" of a 180 DAUNTLESS compared to a 170 MONTAUK may be attributable to the substantial increase in weight, and not to any particularly unique qualities of the hull form.

If we look at the hull form for the length-to-bean ratio we see the following:

LENGTH TO BEAM RATIO
180 Dauntless = 2.24
170 Montauk = 2.49

Generally the ability to produce a pleasant ride in rough seas is considered to be related to the length-to-beam ratio. We see the 170 MONTAUK has a higher length-to-beam ratio, so one might expect its hull form to provide a more comfortable ride in seas. Yet we have the observation of a major difference in ride in favor of the 180 DAUNTLESS, despite the lower length-to-beam ratio its hull has.

An interesting experiment might be conducted by getting 891-lbs of sand bags and distributing them around the cockpit of a 170 MONTAUK, then observing how the boat's ride changes or improves.

[Dutchman]

From my experience there aren't many power boats less than 30' that give you a very-dry ride on Lake Michigan on a "normal" nice day with a 7-10 knot breeze, no matter what the hull design.

[TP848]

Yes the ride is really that noticeably different. I also have read (on this site) that the Dauntless 180 (2002-2008) is in fact 18'6". Any truth that you know of (JimH)?

[jimh]

No. Can't resolve that for you. I used the specifications for the present-day models. You are welcome to research variations in historical models with the same name. Please post your findings or email them to me. If you discover something, please share.

You are also welcome to collect your own information and make a comparison of the length, beam, and weight.

[jimh]

From my experience there aren't many power boats less than 30' that give you a very-dry ride on Lake Michigan on a "normal" nice day with a 7-10 knot breeze, no matter what the hull design.

I agree. In big water, big boats are more comfortable than small boats.