Upgrading to OUTRAGE 21 from MONTAUK 17

A conversation among Whalers
ridethewhaler
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Upgrading to OUTRAGE 21 from MONTAUK 17

Postby ridethewhaler » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:03 am

Hi there all, long time lurker here with a question about upgrading from an [1987] Montauk to a OUTRAGE 21 Rib-side. My husband and I have two very young children and love the Montauk, but it can be pretty tight when we take it out with friends and other kids-- which does happen a little less than half the time we go out, and I can see it happening more as the kids get older and bigger. In order to keep costs down we need to be able to trailer the boat, and we have a truck capable of handling a bigger boat; but we also love how easy it is with the Montauk and how cheap the Montauk is to run and take care of.

I've been reading a lot about the OUTRAGE 21 with ribbed sides, and am now fascinated with them. They seem like a great alternative to the Montauk if you want a more room. Some background: we run it exclusively right now on the Parker River in Massachusetts, lots of sandbars and beach days, but it would be nice to be able to go out a bit further when the kids get older. We do fish though not intensely. Also, our well-aged Evinrude outboard died last fall so we have to re-power the Montauk. The breathtaking prices on new motors have spurred this decision.

How much of a jump is it going to be to go from the Montauk to the OUTRAGE? Too much if we really do like the Montauk a lot? We don't want to get over our heads, particularly when it comes to trailering it because that is an absolute must.

Thank you so much!

goldstem
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby goldstem » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:32 pm

The rib-side or smooth side [OUTRAGE 21] will be excellent. I've run both, and shouldn't seem too much for you. Their ability to run in skinny waters rivals the 17, especially if you resist the urge to maximally power it.

Note that [the OUTRAGE 21] isn't the smoothest riding 21-footer out there. The ride is closer to a 17, that the trade off for weight and efficiency; it's a pretty flat hull

You do need a bigger vehicle to tow [an OUTRAGE 21], about 3000-lbs all in (hull is 1600-lbs, motor about 400-lbs now, trailer and gear).

I absolutely loved mine.

ridethewhaler
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby ridethewhaler » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:00 pm

Thank you, that is very helpful! A smoothside would work just fine too if we could find one. Is your concern [about engine power because] the boat would become too heavy? There is one we have seen that has a 200-HP, which I believe is the top end of the range. Thank you.

leadsled
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby leadsled » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:03 am

A 150 hp Outboard would be fine for that hull. That hull with a new 200 hp would exceed 50 mph.

ridethewhaler
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby ridethewhaler » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:49 am

leadsled wrote:A 150 hp Outboard would be fine for that hull. That hull with a new 200-HP would exceed 50 mph.


Thanks for the info, there is another [OUTRAGE 21] we found that only has a 100-HP on it, and old Yamaha four-stroke. Any thoughts on that? Seems pretty underpowered, but it's a nice boat otherwise. Thank you for your help.

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Don McIntyre - MI
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby Don McIntyre - MI » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:24 am

A 100-HP on [an OUTRAGE 21] would be pretty sluggish, except for an extremely light load--like one person, little gear, minimal fuel type load.

I've had a smooth-sided OUTRAGE 21 for almost 20 years. The first two years of my ownership, it had a 150 Mercury, and would power it into the high 30-MPH to low 40-MPH. Installed a 200 Yamaha in 2000, and I've seen upper 40-MPH, maybe 50-MPH when the conditions were perfect. Because of the hull design, perfect condition is very, very slight chop; two to three inches, no rollers, no waves, and properly trimmed. I've not installed a stainless steel propeller.

What speeds do I normally run? 25 to 30-MPH, so on one hand [200-HP] could be considered excessive. However, I've got no concerns when we load the boat down with three couples and gear for the day, either. And if I were to re-power, I'd still go for another 200-HP.

What I do appreciate is the amount of storage "nooks". A generous area up forward, under the upper deck, down both sides and the rear quarter areas. I'd lean towards the smooth side, if storage is a concern with its in-hull wet (if the drain plug is out) storage and internal fuel tank (more storage area under the reversible seat, and quarter area) and the anchor locker on the top deck. I've added an insert into the "V" area forward, for lounging, and that provides additional storage underneath.

I like the ability to run in extremely shallow areas. Even with the 200, the boat draw about 9-inches with the motor tilted, but idling. Very stable at rest; you can walk across from one side to another with minimal roll. The at rest roll on the 22 Outrage we had was noticeable.

Downside--one major one, that for the majority of what you plan, will not be a concern: when the conditions get rough, you will pound, unless you throttle down to barely planing speed. The old 20-foot first Outrage that had a V-hull and internal fuel tank rode better. The subsequent models, 22 and 25-foot and beyond have a more acute V-hull, but are heavier.

Towing--you mentioned truck. An OUTRAGE 21 pulls behind any standard sized truck with no problems. I've towed it with our Honda Pilot with no problems. Boat with standard gear (mooring cover, forward shelter, bimini, forward insert, cushions, cooler, 1/2 fuel, lines, anchors, console safety gear) and double axle trailer w/spare, weighs 3,860-lbs. There is no need to consider a load leveling hitch system, as the tongue weight is 330 to 350-lbs.

Regards - Don

goldstem
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby goldstem » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:17 pm

We ran an old Evinrude 140 on our [OUTRAGE 21]. [The boat] later was rated at 115-HP, and it was fine for anything we wanted to do.

With four adults and a couple of kids, it could get up and go no problem, even waterskiing. That old hull is very light, flat, and very easy to plane. One time [the engine] was only running on three of it cylinders--maybe 80-HP--and it still got onto a plane. WIth 200-HP [the boat] would be scary, I think. A 150-HP engine would be perfect. A 100-HP engine would be okay, but not optimal with a full load.

sraab928
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Location: Merritt Island Florida

Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby sraab928 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:55 am

Here are some threads that contain info on a Ribside Outrage running a 90hp E-Tec - Says 34mph top end - These boats can run on a single 65 hp outboard (minimum hp requirement). It really depends on what your expectations for speed and performance are.

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/019738.html

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/007853.html
Scott
1971 Boston Whaler Outrage 21 - under restoration

ridethewhaler
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby ridethewhaler » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:00 pm

sraab928--awesome info here, thank you.

ridethewhaler
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby ridethewhaler » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:02 pm

Don McIntyre--[your comments have been] very helpful.

We run so much inshore that I think that outweighs the pounding. We currently pound in the Montauk so are used to it. This boat seems like a great choice, just a matter of which one we go with now. Thank you.

sraab928
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby sraab928 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:16 am

Another point to consider between a Ribside and Smoothside 21 - The ribside uses above deck tanks (like your Montauk) - They can be saddle tanks under the gunnels, a tank under the RPS (like the Montauk) or located under the rear storage area (I have even seen one with a tank in front of the console). The Smoothside uses and infloor built in tank.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I prefer the above deck tanks of the ribside as they are much easier to monitor maintain and replace. The two advantages of the in floor tank are increased fuel capacity and they do not eat up any deck space. Some may argue better weight placement as well.
Scott
1971 Boston Whaler Outrage 21 - under restoration

frontier
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby frontier » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:38 am

We had a 1972 Ribside 21 Outrage with a 130 Yamaha 2-Stroke. GREAT boat. VERY stable. The 130 had plenty of power of speed. Tons of room, lightweight, and easy to trailer.

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Don McIntyre - MI
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby Don McIntyre - MI » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:02 am

Goldstem mentioned that a 200hp could be scary. I've not encountered that, though when you nail the throttle from idling you'll want to have a plan.

Regards - Don

GRH
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby GRH » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:04 pm

We have a 1979 Revenge 21 that came with a 1979 Johnson 200-HP. We repowered it with an OptiMax 200. It pulled the grandkids on skis and tubes and would run 50-MPH. Great rig.

We now have a new 115 Mercurry FOURSTROKE on her because the grands do other stuff now days. We are VERY happy with the 115-HP and enjoy the quiet and lighter weight. The boat will run 39-MPH turning a 17 pitch [aluminum] propeller with a light load. If we have four or more on board, I will put on a 150pitch propeller.

If you don't need to rocket across the water, you don't need 200-HP. Also, considering the age of these boats, don't you think they deserve a little more sedate life style?

jimh
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Re: Upgrading to a 21' Ribside

Postby jimh » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:23 pm

I recall spending a day on an OUTRAGE 21 with a 150-HP Mercury. The engine was only running on five cylinders, but that was not known at the time. There were five adults and large dog aboard. Accelerating onto plane was easily done.

I agree with the notion that Boston Whaler boats over 40-years-old perhaps should not be equipped with heavy outboard engines that exceed their original ratings.

The hull bottom of the OUTRAGE 21 is rounded. The boat rides something like a surf board. It does not go through waves, it tries to surf over them. If you anticipate a lot of boating in rough water, it's not the the optimum 21-footer.

WAILER
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Re: Upgrading to OUTRAGE 21 from MONTAUK 17

Postby WAILER » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:11 pm

Last year we re-powered our 21 Outrage ribby (00140) with a 2006 e-tec 200 HO. Both boat and engine are pretty new to us, so we're still learning the ways. We trailer (at the moment) and we're most often on the waters of Carr Inlet in Puget Sound. Sorry, I don't have prop information, but with just two of us on board and half capacity of fuel, ~12 gallons, I think we're going the speeds mentioned in this thread. Trimmed out, the GPS will just touch 50 knots @ 5850 rpm, on an evening like glass. I wouldn't use major steering inputs at that speed and my face does a Jeremy Clarkson, so we don't stay up there for long. I don't have an anchor on board and I have to build a fishing platform because it isn't there, and we have no canvas, so maybe we're running super lean. The water we run on might be a little rougher than yours (0 to 6 inch chop all summer, 6 - 12 inches if it's breezy - 2 - 4 foot swells if the wind gets up.)

The prop we have has four blades and it's on a plane very quickly. I think we're a bit over powered, but the engine was a deal and with the seating arrangement as it is (I think we're a type/option 1 and so we have a folding wooden seat facing aft, behind the console seat, forming the top of the fish well) allows the four of us in the family to hold a normal conversation at 3500 rpm, keep the fuel consumption surprisingly economical, but still get a move on.

We haven't yet been out in anything over 1 foot swells, but I'm surprised at how well the boat rides, for 21 feet with sensible throttle inputs. Others with way more experience will be your guide here.

We only trailer about 500 yards to put the boat in and our tow vehicle is a 98 4Runner / V6 rated at 5,000 lbs. I wouldn't pull it over the Rockies with that, but it's fine for short hops.

Redmanf1
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Re: Upgrading to OUTRAGE 21 from MONTAUK 17

Postby Redmanf1 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:34 pm

good points