2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

A conversation among Whalers
pseudotattler
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2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby pseudotattler » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:41 am

Hello fellow Whaler enthusiasts. I've appreciated the Boston Whaler for a long time and was never in a position where I could own one. However that has changed and I'm beginning the search. I've found a boat I like, and being a conservative spender, I'm trying to determine a fair price to offer. I've looked locally and there is nothing similar and tried NADA but that seems off. Any ideas?

2001 21 Outrage
--150 gal fuel tank
--Mercury OptiMax 225 with 400 hours
--stainless steel propeller
--trim tabs
--bottom painted (that's OK as I'll be docking her)
--all new cushions
--T-Top (Cloth).
--dual batteries
--electronics include GPS, Radar, Fish-finder, VHF radio, AM-FM entertainment
--outriggers
--live well
--swim ladder
--enclosed head with pump out

Includes a 2001 tandem axle trailer in fair condition

Appreciate any feedback and looking forward to becoming a new owner

jimh
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby jimh » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:22 pm

I am a big fan of the c.2001 21 OUTRAGE. I think it is a nice, big, beefy boat--much more than you'd think for a 21-footer. So a big plus for the model.

If the T-top is an OEM option, that is a big plus. I would be wary of non-factory added T-tops.

The Mercury OptiMax c.2001, that's not a plus. That is the older generation of OptiMax, prior to the OPTIMAX THE NEXT GENERATION (OTMG) engines. If it runs well and has been properly maintained, then, at this point, it probably will keep running. That is how it usually works with a 16-year-old outboard engine; either they run just fine and will keep running, or they don't and they won't. So ask the seller for a mark-down on the engine value. A replacement will cost a fortune. A new 225-HP engine will be almost $20,000.

Trailers in "fair" condition are going to be a problem. If the trailer was used in saltwater and it is from c.2001 it is probably past its useful life.

Electronics if from c.2001 are of little value.

You are now at a point in the boating buyer-seller season where the seller is ascending. It's boating season, and you want a boat. Heed this advice: any Boston Whaler boat in good condition and fairly priced that is a popular model will sell fast.

I don't know the current value. You have to see the boat to really know. I'd suggest about $20,000 maximum.

pseudotattler
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby pseudotattler » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:02 am

Thanks - I was thinking in same ballpark as you. Seller wants $25 which I believe is over priced

PeteG
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby PeteG » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:36 am

Here's a couple of comparos on Boat Trader.

It doesn't look as if the seller is way off. He might be asking higher than he'll take(?)

You'll have to take into account various items (like one has been repowered with a Honda)

(No affiliation with these)

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2001- ... 103016929/

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2001- ... 103031545/

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2002- ... ge-702714/

Good luck and keep us posted.

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Phil T
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby Phil T » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:22 am

Keep in mind a boat without bottom paint is a trailer queen and worth more than one anchored or slipped.

Dealers seek prices thousands above reality.

NADA for boats is worthless and should be banned from your thoughts.

Look nationwide to get values.

Conservative spending can sometimes lead to going cheap. Boats are expensive and require yearly upkeep. Even after purchase, expect to spend 1-2K on repairs (trailer) motor inspection/servicing and outfitting the boat.
1992 Outrage 17
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pseudotattler
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby pseudotattler » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:55 am

Phil T wrote:Keep in mind a boat without bottom paint is a trailer queen and worth more than one anchored or slipped.

Dealers seek prices thousands above reality.

NADA for boats is worthless and should be banned from your thoughts.

Look nationwide to get values.

Conservative spending can sometimes lead to going cheap. Boats are expensive and require yearly upkeep. Even after purchase, expect to spend 1-2K on repairs (trailer) motor inspection/servicing and outfitting the boat.


Not worried about the spending after purchase, that'll take care of itself with my budget. My initial cash outlay is my downfall. Sometimes hard to part with the money for myself. No problem spending on wife, kids and grandkid, but spending for me is hard.

msirof2001
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby msirof2001 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:20 am

Spending time on boat with family, i.e., grandkids is priceless. It's not spending just on you. My obsession with boating and fishing is directly attributable to the many times I spent with my family elders on their boats and on fishing trips with them. That is the priceless aspect. Whaler being noted for comfort and safety shows responsibility. Priceless. You may be perpetuating generations of boaters in your family. This isn't just for you; this isn't like a $20,000 Rolex Watch that you just hang on your wrist.
Current: 2017 Everglades 295cc, Previous1: 1995 Boston Whaler Outrage 21, Previous2: 1974 Sevylor Caravelle 3-man liferaft.

PeteG
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby PeteG » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:55 pm

Agree with msiro.

I have countless pictures of the kids jumping off the boat at the sandbar, taking turns driving, fishing and catching (and screaming).

Both have turned into wonderful young ladies and still love to come out on the boat, even when other "things in life" tug at them. Both can handle a boat and maybe remember how to tie a bowline B-)

The smiles per mile are like no other activity you'll do with family and friends. I still chuckle to myself in the summer. One of the sandbars we visit is 500 yards off the "best beach in the US". There's no place to put a towel down on a Satuday....we're on the sandbar with very few people enjoying ourselves....which is priceless.

Just go do it!!

My .02

jimh
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby jimh » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:22 pm

A new tandem-axle boat trailer for a big 21-footer, made by a national brand-name producer, will probably cost at least $4,000. You can make the new trailer more expensive by upgrades to the brake system, such as using electric over hydraulic brakes, all stainless steel everything, add-on keel rollers, and so on. Re-building an old trailer by buying replacement parts and hiring labor to install them might be almost as expensive or perhaps even more expensive (in the long run) than buying a new trailer. Thus the condition of the trailer becomes quite a factor in the value of the bundled deal.

If the trailer is registered, licensed, and completely road-worthy, and you can safely drive the boat home and expect the trailer to not break down in the next six-months, then the trailer has value. The road-worthiness of a trailer also is indicated by how much the seller has been using the trailer. If the boat just sits on the trailer during storage, the trailer is used once a year to launch then once a year to load, you should beware. Trailers with those sorts of use patterns are probably not ready for a 1,000-mile highway haul at speed.

jimh
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby jimh » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:31 pm

Re the OptiMax: these older engine can be quite reliable and can give good service, but they have to be properly cared for. You need to have a mechanic that knows all the little tricks and quirks for the OptiMax. There are lots of hoses under that cowling, conducting pressurized air and pressurized fuel to fuel injectors and air-injetors, regulators, valves, compressors, manifolds, check valves, and so on. When it all works as it's supposed to work, the outcome is very strong performance and good fuel economy. The principal drawback is the noise level. The OptiMax is a noisy engine, even among noisy outboard engines.

The OptiMax runs best if supplied with the recommend Mercury-branded premium oil, with the recommended Mercury-branded gasoline fuel additives, and with the recommended maintenance service at the recommended intervals. As I mentioned earlier, if the engine has already run for 15-years, there is not much chance of a hidden defect or flaw in original manufacture being suddenly manifested and causing a problem. To keep it running for 15 years the seller must have been doing something right. The run-time of only 400-hours is a bit curious. Over 15-years that amounts to an average of only 27-hours-per-year. That is not much usage. You'd almost like to see about 50-hours per year, a more average value. It is often said that outboard engines seldom are worn out by too much running time. They often suffer from too much sitting time.

porthole
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby porthole » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:44 pm

pseudotattler wrote:Appreciate any feedback and looking forward to becoming a new owner


I have a 1999 21 Outrage, which is the same boat. That model is a 3 year only version, 1999-2000-2001. It is unusual in that there is an enclosed head on a 21 footer. The boat is heavier than what it would seem for its size. So it is not a rocket, but it rides well. Mine does not have the factory live well and I would like to have it.

Don't know anything about the outboard.

The head pump out is a bonus, wish I had that as well. And if you buy this boat I would interested in seeing pictures of how the head plumbing is installed.

The electronics, unless relatively new--leave them out of the equation, even if all are working well.

The trailer, as Jim mentioned above. You can probably figure that even if the trailer looks good, the odds are in favor of the brakes not working and the tires need replacement.

At a $25,000 asking price I would think they are looking to get $22,000. At two years newer then mine, I would consider it at $20,000 to $22,000, providing the outboard passes a reliable survey.
Last edited by porthole on Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF

pseudotattler
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby pseudotattler » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:07 pm

Hey Guys, I really appreciate the comments and advice everyone is putting out there.

JimH – the trailer age and condition is not a deal breaker – I’m fortunate in that the boat will be wet slipped behind my house. Will only need trailer to put boat in and take out at end of season. There’s two marine facilities for repair work near me, one about 1000 yards and the other about ½ mile in other direction if needed and both do haul outs and blocking.
As for the engine, I was also concerned with hours being low. If I go ahead with this, I’ve already reached out to a Mercury dealer to see about hooking up motor to scan and see actual hours.

msirof2001 – couldn’t agree more about memories and time. That’s why it’s time to do this.

pseudotattler
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby pseudotattler » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:47 am

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porthole
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby porthole » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:13 pm

I would certainly think not.
Still like the boat? Adjust the offer to what you can afford along with the affordability of replacing the outboard.

Could be the cost of that repair is why the boat is up for sale.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF

jimh
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby jimh » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:05 pm

The crack might be just in a small cover plate, which might be plastic. Ask a proper OptiMax mechanic for advice.

pseudotattler
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby pseudotattler » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:51 am

It appears to be a cover plate that hides a bolt mounted under it. Have to get a closer look to be certain the mount under the plate is good.

Jefecinco
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby Jefecinco » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:14 am

The appearance of the engine is indicative of a boat kept in the water without tilting the engine to the full up position after use. It does not necessarily do any harm but does not help the looks. When our boats are kept in the water we tilt the engine up after use and flush with fresh water followed by a spray rinse.
Butch

jimh
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby jimh » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:37 am

I don't know if you have seen the boat in person. You really need to do that. The value is greatly influenced by condition.

If you like the boat, consider this: there are not an infinite number of boats of this model available. Used Boston Whaler boats are not like three-year old automobiles coming off lease where there are dozens of them available in every color. You might not find another c.2001 21 OUTRAGE for sale for years.

Yes, it would be better if the boat had a different engine, but if the boat had already been re-powered with a new engine, the asking price would be much higher.

pseudotattler
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Re: 2001 21 OUTRAGE: Fair Price

Postby pseudotattler » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:07 am

Haven't seen in person - just been trading emails and pictures with owner. Sent picture of motor to Mercury repair near me and they believe If that plastic housing is cracked most likely the motor mounts are bad. If that's the case, it would be a $2-$3 thousand dollar repair. At this point, owner isn't being real forthcoming with information and he doesn't appear ready to come off his asking price.