Montauk 210 Thoughts

A conversation among Whalers
brianbeech
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Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby brianbeech » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:34 pm

I've read as many posts on here as I can find about the 210 Montauk. Our family, although we spend almost every weekend on boats, only owns a very small skiff. We recently spent a good long time on our 14' aluminum skiff cruising the Bay of St. Louis (Mississippi Coast) and the connected bayous and rivers. We are painfully aware that we need a larger boat and we're currently looking at a new 210 Montauk (2017).

I've been able to ride on the 170 Montauk a few times and really loved the platform for the space and the finishes. The kids love jumping off of the squared hull platform to swim and with the large bow area, it really feels like the perfect family boat. Our common weekends would/do include bays, rivers, bayous and the occasional run to the islands. Notice the link just below this - from Pass Christian to Cat Island is about 8 miles. It is myself, my wife and two girls (ages 5 and 8). We wanted something large enough that we wouldn't quickly outgrow it, as the girls are growing like weeds. We also wanted something we could safely travel to and from the island just off the coast about 8-12 miles from shore. We would not be interested in rough seas, but know that weather can change and we could be coming back in seas we would rather not be in. I do a fair amount of inshore fishing and look forward to the more shallow draft of the Montauk compared to some deeper V hulls.
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3106437,-89.0511435,11.5z

The 'unsinkable' nature of a Whaler is appealing to me as well as the resale - even though I hope this will be a 'forever' boat for us. The price is, what I would consider, to be very high for a 21' - at about $63K. What keeps drawing me back is the capacity of 9 people (we have friends with 3-4 little kids) and the really spacious deck. Looking at other boats, I just don't see the same space on an equivalent sized boat. We have property on the bayou and would like to have a lift installed, but for the foreseeable future, it would be trailered.

I've seen posts about people recommending hulls with a deeper V, but our goal is to beach the boat often and spend time on sandbars, islands and hidden beaches. I've also seen criticisms about the sea-worthiness of the boat and, this being our first 'boat', I'd like to know that I'm able to safely make the trips to the islands. I don't have any interest, at least currently, into traveling out to the oil rigs for fishing - but on a calm day I'm told it's possible - albeit maybe not smart

In your educated opinions, would you say that this boat would fit the bill for us and not be something I would regret later? It's easy to get glassy-eyed looking at a new boat and seeing, what looks like, the perfect platform. The problems I come up with are cost - if it's got a 150 Mercury Four Stroke - I'm imagining that is worth somewhere in the ballpark of $15-18K - that leaves over $45K for the hull and options. Is it really worth it?

Thanks for any input - I'm sorry this was so long, I just wanted to set the tone of our positions.

Ridge Runner
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby Ridge Runner » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:09 pm

"Worth it" --value is relative. The use case that you describe seems like a good fit for the 210 Montauk. I own a 2016 210 Montauk. I moved up from a 170 Montauk this spring, and right now I use the 210 Montauk off the New Jersey coast and regularly run about 10 miles off the coast in rolling ocean swells. Eventual I will be moving the boat to the Gulf coast of Florida.

As you have noted, the boat is one of the safest and largest 21-foot boats on the market, also one of the most expensive. Saying that, Whalers typically have one of the best resale values in the industry. The construction of a Boston Whaler is not cheap and that is reflected in the price, but with good care, it certainly can be a multi-generational hull. It is one of a handful of boats that over time could see many re-powers.

Personally, I would be very hard pressed to be in a situation where I ever felt that I was in an unsafe situation with this boat. The boat surely can take more punishment than I care to endure. But as you also noted, this is not a deep V hull; it will not slice through heavy chop or waves like an Outrage, and does have a tendency to pound in a choppy head sea. But it is a very stable platform for in-shore and calm offshore days, one of the most stable platforms on the market. For semi-protected coastal waters it is a great stable utility boat that does well for cruising, water sports, fishing, beaching (add a keel guard) and hitting the local on-the-water restaurants.

As for the price of $63,000 for a 210 Montauk with the 150-HP Mercury FOURSTROKE, depending on when you purchase and the factory options it may be a bit high. If you can wait until season end you could probably save a few dollars. I purchased my 2016 210 Montauk--a leftover, with 150HP Mercury four stroke, T-Top, fishing package, RPS with live well, rear jump seats, bow cushion and marine head--for about $58,000 (After I purchased the boat I did do a swap out of the Mercury for an Evinrude E-TEC G2 200 H.O. I choose to do this swap out for different personal reasons. I would certainly consider the Mercury 150 FOURSTROKE to be an excellent general purpose engine for the 210 Montauk.
Last edited by Ridge Runner on Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
Member since 2005
2005 170 Montauk, 2010 E-TEC 115 H.O.
2016 210 Montauk, 2017 E-TEC G2 200 H.O.

"Red sky at night, sailor’s delight - Red sky in the morning, sailor’s warning”

Masbama
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby Masbama » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:30 pm

I live in Mobile and have been 20 miles out in the Gulf; to Petit Bois and Ship Islands. This was done in 17-18 foot Whalers. The Montauk 210 will more than meet your needs.

Tacky79
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby Tacky79 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:01 pm

By the way, there's a 210 Montauk (used) for sale at my local dealer. Very low hours (58 hours) with a 200HP Verado engine. Might be something to consider. $47k asking price.

I have no interest in this sale, but they are the dealer I bought my 190 Montauk from and the owner was quite helpful during the sales process. Might be worth the drive to Denver?
2017 Boston Whaler Montauk 190 w/ 150 Merc/Fish Pkg/Bowrail delete/aft seating
1979 Boston Whaler Harpoon 5.2 sailboat with sails and a tiller :D

Jefecinco
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby Jefecinco » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:28 am

The 210 would be an ideal boat for Bay (of) St Louis. You may have to exercise a little caution exploring some of those very narrow, winding little bayous. Even the shallow draft Montauk can touch the mud back in those areas. At least if you are going slowly you should be able to back off when you "find" the mud.

Beaching is very destructive to boat gel coat and fiberglass. You'll want a keel guard for protection.

By the way, the finest custom boat trailer builder on the upper Gulf Coast is located in Bay St Louis. Sport Trail is the name and I believe US 90 just West of town is the location. Kevin built a perfect little trailer for my wife's Sport 13. It's worth a visit but call ahead. There is a small Boston Whaler dealer, also on US 90, a few miles to the East. Don't blink or you'll miss it. I believe the dealer name is Breaths or a similar name.
Butch

brianbeech
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby brianbeech » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:12 pm

Thanks so much for all of the replies! It sounds like most of the advice I've gotten locally has lined up with what all of you are replying with. I'm glad to hear that you've made it all the way from Mobile Bay to Ship - that gives me a lot of confidence.

The last few 'questions' I have is really wrapped around whether I should get the 150 XL EFI 4S. We're going to put an activity tower on it and I'm wondering if the boat is loaded down will it have enough low end torque to get someone up on a wakeboard or kneeboard, or if we'll be able to pull a few kids on a tube and get planed out well enough/quick enough.

It looks like that motor is about 11K new, and a Suzuki 200 is roughly 15K with controls. Then, are you able to buy the hull/options only or must you purchase the motor and sell it afterwards; taking a hit on depreciation?

I guess I'm to the 'freak out' stage because I'm thinking of buying the boat and am really serious about it.

As it sits: 2017 210 Montauk - 150HP, T-Top, Trim Tabs, portable potty with deck pumpout, raw water washdown, fresh water shower, bluetooth stereo with 2 speakers, trolling motor panel, no bow rail, aft livewell with seatback and cusion, fishing package with livewell in pilot seat, galvanized trailer.

price was with tax and title.

Thanks again for all of the replies - I took something from each of them even if I didn't directly comment to you.

Jefecinco
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby Jefecinco » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:51 pm

Others will disagree, but I believe with the equipment on the boat and the use to which you intend to put it 150 HP is moderately underpowered. Suzuki makes a fine engine and is priced very aggressively for what you get. I would want 200 HP on the boat, at a minimum.
Butch

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andygere
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby andygere » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:00 am

I took a close look at a 210 Montauk at Nauset Marine this summer. It's a big boat, uncluttered with space eating furniture, and I was impressed with the clean, open layout of the boat. All in, it reminds me more of a classic Outrage 22 than a Montauk, and I think it would be plenty seaworthy for the uses you describe. Not having run one, I can't say first hand if 150 hp is enough or not, but my Outrage 22 with very similar dimensions is ideal with 200 hp, and I wouldn't want any less. One note on the specifications you noted is the lack of a bow rail. These boats have relatively low freeboard, and a bow rail will keep those kids in the boat when underway, and provide an important handhold when moving around in rough conditions, landing a fish, setting an anchor or any other situation that could have you off balance near the gunwale. I think one of the best design features on Boston Whalers, including the 210 Montauk, are the rails. They are there to do a job, they are nicely constructed and I'd give serious thought about the safety aspects they provide before deleting them.
1989 Outrage 22 Cuddy

Ridge Runner
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby Ridge Runner » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:29 am

I agree with Andy and would either add the split bow rail or find a boat with one installed from the factory. You should do a sea trail with the currently installed Mercury 150HP outboard, it's is a strong motor that is reported to produce over its rated HP.

I did do a swap out of the 150HP Mercury motor to a Evinrude G2 200 H.O. (220-HP). It was a project that my dealer performed over last winter. My Boston Whaler dealer gave me a credit back ($11,000) on the 150 Mercury that was applied to the install of the G2 200 H.O. One of my goals was being able to pull up two slalom water skiers from a deep water start at the same time. One of the other goals was not having to perform oil changes on the motor as the boat is kept of a lift.

Here are two discussions on my re-power:
http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1497&p=13476
http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/repowering-a-new-boston-whaler-210-montauk-with-an-etec-200ho-8243288
Member since 2005
2005 170 Montauk, 2010 E-TEC 115 H.O.
2016 210 Montauk, 2017 E-TEC G2 200 H.O.

"Red sky at night, sailor’s delight - Red sky in the morning, sailor’s warning”

magothyboy
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby magothyboy » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:15 pm

Hello. I own a Montauk 210 with a Mercury 150 FOURSTROKE. I run it on the Chesapeake Bay, and I really like the boat. I find 150-HP to be plenty powerful enough for the boat. I actually had mine propped-down to a 15-pitch propeller in order to be able to run more slowly in the kind of chop we get up here. The boat's top end is about 35-MPH, which is a fast as I ever really want to go, anyway. The boat cruises nice and easily at 20-MPH.

The 210 MONTAUK is a nice, solid, well-built boat that is as seaworthy a 21-foot boat as you can buy. I have the Bimini top rather than the T-Top. I also put on hydraulic power steering which makes cruising and long runs a pleasure.

Best of luck in your decision--Kevin

Whalerdog
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby Whalerdog » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:15 am

When considering power think about load. Eight people and gear could make performance really drop with a 150 especially offshore.

jimh
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby jimh » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:21 am

I recently remarked about my first in-person observation of a 210 MONTAUK in a thread I started a few weeks ago. I compared the 210 MONTAUK to the classic OUTRAGE 22 hull. If you haven't already read that thread, then please see my comments about the 210 MONTAUK in that thread at

210 MONTAUK v. Classic OUTRAGE 22
http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2510&p=14210

As it happened, I was at the same ramp a few weeks later and again encountered the same 210 MONTAUK, this time getting prepared to be launched. I noticed that the boat was powered with a VERADO FOURSTROKE 200-HP four-cylinder engine, one of the optional engines and a $6,150-upgrade from the 150 FOURSTROKE base engine. To pay $6,150 for 50-HP seems like extravagance, but in the VERADO FOURSTROKE one also gets remote control electrical shift and throttle (or DTS as Mercury calls it). If you figure that electrical remote control is $1,500, then the cost of the 50-HP added is reduced to $4,650. That makes the cost-per-HP about $93, which allows one to feel a bit more at ease with the cost of the upgrade from FOURSTROKE to VERADO FOURSTROKE engine--although it is a bit pricey.

There is also an option for the Mercury VERADO FOURSTROKE PRO 200-HP six-cylinder engine, and that is an $8,300 upcharge from the base FOURSTROKE engine and $2150 more than the four-cylinder VERADO FOURSTROKE. The six-cylinder VERADO FOURSTROKE PRO engine adds power boosted hydraulic steering, accomplished with an external electrical boost pump connected into the hydraulic pressure hoses of the steering. And you will also get a best-in-class low-noise and ultra-smooth-running engine. In the VERADO FOURSTROKE line, the six-cylinder has those qualities more so than the four-cylinder. The additional $2,150 may be money well spent if you prize very low noise, very smooth power, very little vibration from the engine, and power steering.

To understand the difference in performance with the three engine options, consult the very comprehensive performance test results provided by Boston Whaler at

https://www.bostonwhaler.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2017-PD-210-MONTAUK.pdf

Although the two VERADO FOURSTROKE engines are both rated at 200-HP, the larger displacement six-cylinder engine can push the boat to 50.3-MPH, and the four-cylinder 200-HP only hits 46.6-HP. The base 150-HP FOURSTROKE makes 42.1-MPH as best boat speed.

I do notice one anomaly in the test data: the boat with the larger VERADO FOURSTROKE PRO is said to have a lower dry weight than the boat with the VERADO FOURSTROKE, which seems odd because I am sure the bigger engine weighs more; otherwise the boats are equipped the same. Perhaps there is a bit of variation in production hulls weight.

brianbeech
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210 Montauk--New Model in 2018

Postby brianbeech » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:37 pm

I've still not closed on the new [210 MONTAUK] boat, and I am having second thoughts. Besides the amount of money and the questionable engine strength (from the smaller option with my projected load), my real concern is will [Boston Whaler] release a new version [210 MONTAUK] as they did with the 150 and 170?

I really, really like the optional gelcoat colors, color cushions, and recessed bow rail [that are offered now on the 170 MONTAUK 2018 model]. Those three options alone would make me wait a year without question.

I've had one person here say they've seen a 190 MONTAUK with color gelcoat as new.

Does anyone know if [the option of gel coat color] is coming for the 210 in maybe next year's models?

I'd hate to buy now, even at a cheaper price, and miss options that I think are great.

Thanks all!

~Brian Beech

magothyboy
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby magothyboy » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:39 am

Wow, I would never take eight people out on the 210, offshore or not. Four is ideal, six in a stretch inshore.--Kevin

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Dutchman
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby Dutchman » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:19 am

KEVIN--the 210 can easily handle eight people aboard. I just had six crew on my Montauk 150 last Sunday. Went out onto Lake Michigan for about half a mile and had to turn around as most of the crew couldn't handle the four to five-footers with five-second period. The boat could handle it, keeping the bow up, and I had no water coming in fore or aft. The 210 could easily handle that with six to eight people.
EJO
"Clumsy Cleat"look up what it means
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brianbeech
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby brianbeech » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:26 pm

I thought, having been on the 210, that it could definitely handle our load of eight people. We would, on occasion, have four adults and four to five children ages three to eight-years-old. I wouldn't consider our path, even to the islands to be offshore. We would, rarely, traverse the Mississippi Sound but not into the Gulf of Mexico on the other side of the barrier islands with that load.

JimH, those differences [among engine options] you mentioned would help soften the blow of the extra $8,000 for 50-HP, but I certainly couldn't justify it. I do think that the 200 would be ideal, but not being able to get it on the whaler from the dealer is somewhat of a negative for me (assuming I went with some other brand).

I've yet to make a decision because I'm trying to find out if they're making the 210 with the upgrades I just saw on the 150 and 170 this year.

magothyboy
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby magothyboy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:21 pm

Hello,

I would not have as much of a problem with four adults and 4-5 kids, as long as the conditions warrant. It is a problem of what you want to do, and to be clear, the boat is not going to sink of founder with 8 persons aboard; as long as each of them is not 250-300lbs!

The boat is a great boat and I really am pleased with my decision to get one, and don't feel shorted at all with the 150hp motor. I would recommend that you have the BW dealer put an Enteria 15" pitch prop on the thing and take a sea trial. You can nearly pull a stump with the thing and still are able to run at more than 30mph if you are so inclined.

I wish you the best with your decision.

Kevin

crow
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby crow » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:37 pm

Here are the specs on the Guardian 21

https://www.brunswickcgp.com/boston-whaler-models/guardian/

Here are the specs on the 210 Montauk:

https://www.bostonwhaler.com/family-overview/montauk-boat-models/210-montauk/

They are the identical hull. (The guardian is listed as 50lbs. heavier.)

Notice the 300hp limit on the Guardian.... and the minimum hp rating of 150hp.

Why such an enormous horsepower differential for the exact same hull?

Why is Boston Whaler offering the 210 Montauk with an engine option that is the bare minimum for that hull?
I don't think many people would consider the classic Outrage 22 - a 2050 pound hull - to be adequately powered with a single 115hp engine.

There is no reason why the 210 Montauk - a 2500 pound hull - should not have at least a least a 250hp rating.

I think some of Boston Whaler's current horsepower ratings are ridiculous.

crow
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby crow » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:17 pm

Jim--I would add that your Revenge 22 W-T Whaler Drive boat weighs 2600-lbs. It has a 300-HP maximum power rating.

You recently stated that "A single 175-HP engine on [a 22 Whaler Drive] was probably a bit below optimum power....If I were in the market for a new engine for an OUTRAGE 22 Whaler Drive boat, I would purchase an E-TEC G2 250-HP engine."

I think it's notable that you would purchase a 250hp engine and not a 150hp engine for your hull.

Rinoue
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby Rinoue » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:38 pm

I have a 2013 210 Montauk (with a 150hp 4 stroke, T-top, port a potty, fishing package, tow arch,etc). Then, I added a 3-side enclosure, Simrad 16" Evo2. Bennet tabs, SH VHF, etc etc).
With 4 ppl with full tank of gas, it runs at 33-34 knots in calm water. While I had 6 adults on board, I didn't have any problems planing and running 28 knots.

The maintenance is so easy on 150 4 stroke....

brianbeech
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby brianbeech » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:37 am

The only reason I'd like to go faster than 30 is if I were trying to outrun a storm - and if that were the case, I'm not sure the water conditions at that point would allow me to go that fast anyway. So, maybe the different prop would make the difference - if we found it to be a problem.

I've long thought that max HP of 200 seemed low to me for a 21' boat. It seems that a lot of other boats that are 21s are running 250s (maybe I am wrong about that).

It would be a rarity that we had 6 adults on board and we certainly wouldn't be going to the island like that - we would stay in the bay/bayous/rivers with a load like that. I'm about 185lbs and the wife is about 125lbs. I don't think we'd be pushing the weight up too much.

brianbeech
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Re: 210 Montauk - new for 2018?!

Postby brianbeech » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:43 am

After submitting a request online, the factory rep called me yesterday. Looks like they released the gel coat colors on the website on Monday. I also found that they've got an option to powdercoat the Tt-top.

The factory rep said they don't release any information before it is public because it is proprietary. She said she didn't expect to hear anything about the 210 until we were into calendar year 2018, but she was expecting something as it is the 60 year anniversary. Who knows.

I did find the powder-coated T-Top to be interesting, but there was no mention of a fiberglass top on that--possibly still canvas.

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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby jimh » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:14 pm

crow wrote:Jim--I would add that your Revenge 22 W-T Whaler Drive boat weighs 2600-lbs. It has a 300-HP maximum power rating.


Yes, I am aware of those ratings.

crow wrote:You recently stated that "A single 175-HP engine on [a 22 Whaler Drive] was probably a bit below optimum power....If I were in the market for a new engine for an OUTRAGE 22 Whaler Drive boat, I would purchase an E-TEC G2 250-HP engine."


I may have, but not in this thread. It would be useful if you want to quote me that you give the URL to the post you are quoting if it is not in the same thread. Here is what I actually said in the other discussion:

If I were in the market for a new engine for an OUTRAGE 22 Whaler Drive boat, I would purchase an E-TEC G2 250-HP engine. I would get the E-TEC G2 for the following reasons:

--best fuel economy
--least exhaust gas emission
--best torque over widest engine speed range
--integrated electronic shift and throttle with ICON II EST
--integrated hydraulic steering
--integrated power steering with user-controlled boost setting, Dynamic Power Steering or DPS
--best warranty--eight-year coverage
--best electronic instrumentation
--cleanest rigging with innovative design
--built-in set-back bracket
--best color selection
--best local dealer
--best trained technician
--best support from factory
--made in USA


Cf.: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1759&p=13158#p13158

crow wrote:I think it's notable that you would purchase a 250-HP engine and not a 150-HP engine for your hull.


Notice that I did not say that I would get the 250-HP because I considered it to be the minimum necessary horsepower for the hull. Nor have I ever said, recommended, or implied that 150-HP would be a good choice for an REVENGE-22 W-T Whaler Drive, unless there were two of them on the Whaler Drive transom.

I don't quite understand why what I said is notable in the context of a MONTAUK 210 having a 150-HP engine. A classic Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive, like my boat, has a different hull form than the boat under discussion here, a 210 MONTAUK. The REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive is a narrower and longer boat with a true V-hull design. The overall length, from bow pulpit to transom is several feet longer than a 210 MONTAUK. The boat is harder to push onto plane because of the narrower beam, the longer hull, the higher weight, and the Whaler Drive. That I would recommend a 250-HP for a classic 22-foot hull with Whaler Drive does not mean I would recommend it for a different and newer 21-foot hull boat.

The notion that the base engine for a 210 MONTAUK is only 150-HP is just an artifact that the lower-horsepower engine is less expensive and therefore keeps the base price lower. Often shoppers will become interested in a particular product because of the base price, so keeping the base price lower helps to attract potential customers. And I am certain that for some customers a 150-HP is going to be just fine for a 210 MONTAUK.

On a 210 MONTAUK 210 a 150-HP engine pushes the boat to 42-MPH. There is a very good probability that a 150-HP engine on a classic OUTRAGE 22 Whaler Drive will NOT hit 42-MPH or even come close. And even less chance that a 150-HP engine on a REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive would hit 42-MPH--I know this because often when my boat is heavily loaded and the weather is hot and humid a 225-HP engine can only hit 39-MPH. I don't see it possible to draw much inference from my preference for a 250-HP engine on a 22-foot Whaler Drive boat as being some sort of implicit comment that 150-HP is not adequate for a 210 MONTAUK, if that is the inference you were trying to make.

If you want a 50-MPH boat for the 210 MONTAUK, get the larger VERADO FOURSTROKE PRO 200 engine. If 42-MPH is fast enough, get the smaller and less expensive base engine.


crow wrote:Why is Boston Whaler offering the 210 Montauk with an engine option that is the bare minimum for that hull?
I don't think many people would consider the classic Outrage 22 - a 2050 pound hull - to be adequately powered with a single 115hp engine.


I don't follow your thinking. The base engine on a 210 MONTAUK is 150-HP. Why is a 115-HP engine on an OUTRAGE 22 supposed to be comparable? You need to explain your thinking on this comparison--I don't see the connection.

crow
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby crow » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:58 pm

I’m sorry if my post was confusing

My Main Question:

Given that they are the exact same hull…
Why does Boston Whaler’s 210 Montauk have a 200hp maximum rating and the 21 Guardian have a 300hp maximum rating?

My Second Point:

I think the 210 Montauk should be rated for a 250hp engine.

Maybe I went off on a convoluted tangent with the Outrage 22 comparison…

I introduced the Outrage 22 comparison because:

1. I agree that there are similarities between the 210 Montauk and the Outrage 22.
2. Owner’s performance reports on CW indicate that the two boats perform similarly with the same horsepower.

I believe the 2050 lb. Boston Whaler Outrage 22 – 240lb maximum horsepower rating- is underpowered with a 150hp engine. (Despite reports on CW that certain 150hp engines pushes the boat to 44-45mph.)

I also believe that the 2500 pound 210 Montauk- 200hp maximum horsepower rating- is underpowered with a 150hp engine. (Despite reports that this Mercury engine can push the boat to 42mph.) Brunswick clearly states that they think 300hp is suitable for this hull.

I made a mistake. I meant to write 150hp not 115hp. ( I believe I was thinking about the 210 hull with twin 150s and the Outrage 22 hull with twin 115s..)

Jim, I did not intend to take your statements out of context. I found your 250hp choice notable considering the weight of your 22 hull and the reported performance data on the two hulls. (please note I’m not talking about ride characteristics.) To be accurate, a notched transom Outrage 22 is 550 pounds lighter, 2 feet shorter, and performs differently that your WD hull. Nevertheless, I think it is accurate to say that the signifigant majority of notched transom Outrage 22 owners choose to repower with 200hp/plus engines. Likewise, I think a 250hp power option on a 2500 lb 210 Montauk is a suitable match. Clearly Boston Whaler does not agree…or do they?...(See Brunswick specs)

jimh
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Re: Montauk 210 Thoughts

Postby jimh » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:08 am

CROW--there may be a difference in the maximum engine power rating given by Boston Whaler for the 210 MONTAUK compared to the Commercial and Government Products division of Brunswick for what seems like a similar hull because the hull for the Commercial and Government Products boat is built with a stronger laminate schedule. Have you investigated the hull weights of the two boats? I would expect--if the traditional practice is followed--the commercial hull version will be heavier, and that reflects a heavier laminate schedule used in fabricating the hull.

Thanks for the clarification that your mention of 115-HP in your comparison was in error, and you meant 150-HP. That makes more sense to me.

As for my recommendation to go to 250-HP, well, it is much easier for me to spend other people's money. When I was re-powering my boat I looked at getting a 250-HP engine. The cost was higher than the 225-HP engine. I thought about what advantage I would actually get with the 250-HP engine compared to the 225-HP engine in the boat's performance, and whether adding another $1,000 to the project cost was worth the difference. The difference would probably be a few MPH, maybe three or four more MPH, at maximum throttle. I decided that for me--spending my own money--that 225-HP was plenty. Now when I get to spend other people's money, I recommend more extravagant investments in engine horsepower.

ASIDE: since a 225-HP and 250-HP engine weight the same in most cases, you can estimate the increase in top speed by using the ratio of the horsepowers to the 0.5-exponent. For this example we have 250/225 = 1.11. Taking the 0.5-exponent gives 1.054. This means that if a boat goes, say 42-MPH with the 225-HP, if the power is increased to 250-HP the boat would go 42-MPH x 1.054 = 44.2-MPH. So then you can ask yourself, is the difference in cost--in this case over $1,000--worth it to make the boat go 2-MPH faster at full throttle? My analysis was that it was not worth the cost. Thanks to the E-TEC engine providing a histogram of engine speed, I can see that over more than 400-hours of use I only operate the engine at full-throttle a miniscule amount of time, something like less than 0.5-percent of the engine run time. I think NOT spending more than $1,000 to bump up to a 250-HP from a 225-HP was a good decision.

To make things more interesting, after I bought my engine I found I could have ordered a 200 H.O. model and saved about $800. The difference in power output between the 200 H.O. and the 225-HP models is probably negligible, perhaps less than 10-HP. The speed difference would be about 1-MPH. Okay, will you take 1-MPH less to save $800?

By the way, I did have--at one time--a 250 H.O engine on the boat. That engine was very strong, and it was fun to cruise around at almost 40-MPH cruise when conditions permitted. But that engine was even more expensive, and also all the extra power comes from consuming more fuel. The operating costs are higher. If you did your boating on a lake where you could run 40-MPH and you liked to go fishing at some spot 20-miles away all the time, maybe you would benefit from a 40-MPH cruise.

Whalerdog
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Re: 210 Montauk--New Model in 2018

Postby Whalerdog » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:13 pm

brianbeech wrote:I've still not closed on the new [210 MONTAUK] boat, and I am having second thoughts. Besides the amount of money and the questionable engine strength (from the smaller option with my projected load), my real concern is will [Boston Whaler] release a new version [210 MONTAUK] as they did with the 150 and 170?

I really, really like the optional gelcoat colors, color cushions, and recessed bow rail [that are offered now on the 170 MONTAUK 2018 model]. Those three options alone would make me wait a year without question.

I've had one person here say they've seen a 190 MONTAUK with color gelcoat as new.

Does anyone know if [the option of gel coat color] is coming for the 210 in maybe next year's models?

I'd hate to buy now, even at a cheaper price, and miss options that I think are great.

Thanks all!

~Brian Beech

BW will not redesign the 210 for a long time. To expensive to drop a design that fast.