Outrage Clone

A conversation among Whalers
thill
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:59 pm

Outrage Clone

Postby thill » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:13 am

Greetings all! New to the forum, but have admired Boston Whalers for many years. I have been looking for a small runabout in the 17 to 18-foot range for bay fishing, and I came across a boat that looks exactly like a 1990 Outrage, but it says "Sailfish" on the side. Not sure what to think. I did a google search under sailfish boats, and they don't look anything like a Boston Whaler

So I am curious: did Boston Whaler make hulls sold under different names?

Is the Sailfish a clone of the Boston Whaler Outrage?

A picture of the "Sailfish"
Outrage1.jpg
Outrage1.jpg (30.6 KiB) Viewed 7550 times


A Boston Whaler Outrage for comparison.

Image

I'm going to see this boat today, so I'm very curious of what the title will say. The big negative with this particular boat are the large scratches in the hull. But a friend of mine does fiberglass work for a living, and he says those will not be a problem, although it's going to cost a bit to do properly, if they are as deep as they look.

Let me know what you guys think. Thanks--Tony

jimh
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Re: Outrage Clone

Postby jimh » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:54 am

thill wrote:...did Boston Whaler make hulls sold under different names?


The only other name applied to Boston Whaler hulls is Brunswick Commercial and Government Products.

Identification of the manufacturer of the hull in questoin will be simple: just observe the federal hull identification number (HIN) on the transom. The HIN should begin with the manufacturer identity code (MIC) of BWC or WCG if the boat is really a Boston Whaler boat. More information on HIN's is found in the FAQ answer at:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q2

The Sailfish boat looks like a copy. The bow railings are not correct. The console is not correct. The stern rails are not correct. The construction is most probably not a Unibond hull. If you want a Boston Whaler boat, it is better to buy a Boston Whaler boat than to buy a clone.

thill
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Re: Outrage Clone

Postby thill » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:31 pm

Jim,
Thanks for the reply. Good information.

The [HIN] number starts out with "YSIC", and is titled as a Sailfish.

I saw the boat today, and was surprised. The hull, transom, and decks are rock-solid. What looked like deep scratches in the hull were just black marks from black trailer rollers that aren't rolling. (Big relief!) The hull is in very good condition.

On the other hand, the motor is toast. 65 PSI in the bottom port cylinder, 120 in both top cyls. The trailer is solid, but needs fenders and tires.

From the pictures I saw online, this has the correct front rail for a 17. (but not the 19 I pictured above) The original back rails were removed and a ski tower/rod rack installed. But looking at the hole placement, it appears that the original back rails were correct for a BW too.

The console is different from a Whaler. There is an above-deck fuel tank inside the console, maybe 25 gals.

What distinguishes a Unibond hull?
(Sorry for being ignorant of what is probably basic BW knowledge)

Something interesting about this hull is there are no deck penetrations that I can find. Each hatch has its own drain, including the front locker. The boat is not self-bailing, but the two two drains in the back of the cockpit that go into a small bilge area that is walled off from the rest of the under-deck area. In fact, all the drains go there, and there is an 1100-GPH pump to get rid of it. Is this typical of Boston Whaler construction?

To my original question: was this boat made FOR Sailfish boats? Over the years, I've found that a number of companies that make big boats put their name on someone else's smaller boat, especially if a large parent company (like Brunswick) owns both companies.

Either that, or Sailfish blatently and shamelessly ripped Boston Whaler off. If so, there should be some history of lawsuit or settlement. That hull shape is just too distinctive to hide. Every ridge, every strake, every curve is exactly the same.

I'm going to keep digging for more info, but I decided to go ahead and buy the boat. It was a very small investment, regardless of the maker.

Thanks again.

jimh
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Re: Outrage Clone

Postby jimh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:33 am

To become familiar with Unibond Hull construction, see

Original Patent of the Boston Whaler Hull Construction
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/originalPatent.html

To see photographs of Boston Whaler hulls being made, see

BOSTON WHALER FACTORY TOUR--Where Legends Are Made
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/factory.html

The shape of a boat hull was not particularly protected against copying until recently. As a result, the hull shape of a c.1985 Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 18 hull can be copied by anyone and used to make boats, even commercially, and there is no special provision to protect the original designer. The method of making a mold to make a fiberglass boat hull by using an existing boat hull as a plug for constructing the mold is known as "splashing" a hull. Many small, obscure, short-lived boat builders have used this method to create a mold to produce boats that were, essentially, copies of another manufacturer's hull.

To become more familiar with the new federal regulations, you can consult the regulations themselves

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1301

or this Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_M ... ection_Act

or this well-written article that explains more about the law at

https://floridaiptrends.com/2009/02/23/ ... -the-hull/

jimh
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Re: Outrage Clone

Postby jimh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:34 am

Congratulations on buying the SAILFISH boat. Please do not put Boston Whaler decals on it.

thill
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Re: Outrage Clone

Postby thill » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:43 pm

Jim,
Thanks for that information. Very interesting stuff. Tom C sent me some good links too.

FWIW, I bought the Sailfish on it's own merit. I only asked about the origins of it because of it's blatent similarity. I thought it might have been built under license. I had no idea you could LEGALLY steal a hull design like that. That is CRAZY!!! I'm glad to hear they have changed that law.

I was given a link to an owner's forum, and they seem like good little boats, but they are not Whalers.

I've done a lot of reading in the reference area of this site, and am VERY impressed with Boston Whaler, both as a boat, and innovaters. From what I read, BW invented the center console. That's huge! And there are a lot of other things to admire about them. I now understand why some people are almost fanatic about the brand. Sounds like they have earned the loyalty.

I would never change decals on a boat. Fraud is not my style!

Not sure if I'm going to keep this boat or just repower and sell it. Depends on how much I like the ride and handling. I had a 14' McKee in the past, and hated it. I almost bought a 13' Whaler, but I think it was waterlogged. It rode smoothly over chop, but was slow and sat low in the water, so I passed.

I got this one, and we will see how it turns out. I got it so cheap that if I put fenders on the trailer and wipe the black streaks off the hull, I can probably triple my money. If I do, I'll look for a real BW, hopefully in the 80's or 90's.

I saw a link in the reference section about how to value a BW. I'm going to go read that carefully, and see what I can find

Thank you all for your helpfulness, and for putting together such an informative site!

-TH

jimh
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Re: Outrage Clone

Postby jimh » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:23 am

THILL--what is even crazier--if you ask me--is that even AFTER there was federal regulation protecting boat hull designs, not very many have been registered to receive the benefit. I have seen some bass boat hulls--I think they were RANGER boats--which prominently display the required notation that the hull design is registered and protected.

One gotcha in the regulations is the relatively narrow time window in which the hull must be registered after it is first shown to the public. Of course, since many Boston Whaler hulls were first introduced more than 30-years ago, they are not eligible to be registered for protection. You can make a mold from a c.1989 Boston Whaler classic hull and go right into production.

The Unbond hull method is protected by patent, but I don't think the original patent is still in effect. I think patent terms are good for about 20-years. Usually the original design gets a tweak and a new patent. I don't know the present legal status of patent protection on using Unibond construction. It is a hard method to perfect, so most copiers would not try it--too hard to get it right.

I am glad you found the website to be informative. The purpose of the website has always been to collect and organize information. The forum did build an on-line community, but the community has been around for more than 15-years and is getting a bit old-aged.

The boat you bought looks interesting. For comparison, a really nice c.1989 OUTRAGE 18 with a good trailer and nice engine can probably fetch about $15,000 or more today as a used boat. If you paid less than that for the SAILFISH you got a bargain.

thill
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:59 pm

Re: Outrage Clone

Postby thill » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:31 pm

I have been trying to reply since yesterday, but was some kind of error. Had an interesting reply, but can't remember what it was.

Jim,
I read the links you posted and checked those laws, and it's better than before, but still seems a bit cumbersome for the limited protection it gives. I see why most makers don't bother pursuing it.

I got this boat for much, much less than $15k, so it was too good to pass up. It will be very interesting to see how it performs, and in particular, how "solid" it feels compared to the BW's I've been in. I have a 70 and a 100 HP that I can put on it, I just have to decide. The 100 Johnson is the same block as the 88 that was on it previously, so I'm inclined to go that way.

I did a quick local search on CList, and found a bunch of 13' Whalers, a few 15's and a couple of 17's. There was a 1989 Montauk 17 with a 90 HP on the back for $3,500. Had I seen that, I wouldn't have bothered with this boat, but too late now.

If anyone is interested, it's on the Eastern Shore craigslist, and is near Ocean City MD.

Wweez
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Re: Outrage Clone

Postby Wweez » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:41 am

In 1999 when that new law had passed, one more experienced boat salesman simply stated that their were only 7 measuring points which had to be changed, and then splash away. He was not impressed by all the noise. These pieces of legislation/ regulation would be difficult at best. Given the wrong wording, it might prohibit almost anything from being built at all.

The reported interest in registering in order to gain protection under that law pretty much tells the tale of its usefulness.

I have only seen two sailfish boats. They seemed clean and sound. The deck is higher to contain the below deck fuel tank.
At a price, sounds like a deal.
Thill, some of those Whalers you find on Craigs L are beaten. May be a good deal around, never know till you look at that one!
Good Luck