17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

A conversation among Whalers
the 66 kid
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17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby the 66 kid » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:38 pm

First, great forum. I have been lurking for a long time but this is my first post. I have already done a good amount of research, most of it on this site. I could find nothing that directly addressed my concern. So, here goes:

I am looking for a classic Whaler that would serve two purposes. One (and most immediately), serve as a sandbar boat for my family of four. Taking the cover off our bigger boat just to run up to the sandbar can be tedious. The run from our house to sandbar is all protected water, where one would normally expect to encounter very light chop (if any) in addition to boat wakes. Run is about three miles.

Also, I would like a boat that my wife can take out the kids on if I am not around. She didn't really grow up on boats but is learning. Might there be an occasional need to trailer the boat to the west coast of Florida for scallops or down to the keys for lobster.

Also, I want a boat that my now 10-year-old son can learn to operate and one day take out on his own. I learned how to drive a boat on a 1986 17 Mako Angler that my parents still have. I sometimes flirt with the nostalgic idea of fixing "my" old boat up and having that also be the boat my son learns on. Then I run the math and decide against it. I mention our old 17 Mako because I think it was a great boat to come up on - knee boarding, tubing, offshore fishing trips when we got a little older. It wasn't too much boat nor too little. It was just right.

For my kids, I would want something similar. A boat they can run the river and intracoastal exploring, tubing, skiing, going to the sandbar, etc. I want something classic but also something I am not going to stress over every scrape and ding that happens.

I am leaning towards the Montauk and here is why:
—more affordable. If I were going to put $20,000 into a 25-year-old boat, it would be restoring the family 17 Mako;

—from what I have read, the Montauk feels a little more nimble than the Outrage, but the Outrage feels and is a much bigger boat;

—can power the Montauk with less horsepower and less fuel burn.

While my son is closer to 11 than he is 10, he is still a couple years out from taking any boat out on his own. I want the boat to serve two purposes.

In a perfect world, we would have a bay boat to run the family to the sandbar and cruise and a 15 Whaler for my son to learn how to captain when he is ready.

I like the Montauk because of the above deck fuel tank. The idea of not having to sweat about a below deck tank that was 20-years-old appeals to me.

Based on the above what are your thoughts?

Is there anything I am not considering?

Jack

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Re: 17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby jimh » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:38 pm

For the stated use get a Montauk 17.

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Dutchman
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Re: 17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby Dutchman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:34 am

Outrage more versatile more storage, but like you mentioned more expensive, probably higher HP than the Montauk 17. Therefore a Montauk would be easier to handle for the Admiral and her first mate as he will be driving the boat sooner than you think. My 11-12 year old sons could handle our 32ft twin engine cabin cruiser like a 30 year experienced skipper. You be surprised what a 12 year old can do with a boat, therefore slightly less HP would be better.
Go for the Montauk unless you can find a Outrage of similar value as it is more family friendly.
EJO
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Re: 17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby jimh » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:10 am

ASIDE: Dutch—does your ten-year-old take that out 32-footer with twin engine by himself? To sand bars?

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Re: 17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby Dutchman » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:19 am

ASIDE: No Jim he did not and it is/was against the law anyway for somebody that young to operate a boat, he 33 now. All I was saying at that age he could park our 12 ft wide boat in a 14 ft wide slip without using/touching a piling/dock in a river with a slight current.
But yes after he was of US driving age (16 years old) he would/could take the boat out alone and many times before that I could sit on the fore-deck or in a lounge in the cockpit and didn't have to worry about anything except being a good deckhand handling the lines for him.
It must be the dexterity of these young computer game players that enables them to handle something like that and he was taught and learned right. Both sons were/are a lot better boat operators than many others out there.
EJO
"Clumsy Cleat"look up what it means
50th edition 2008 Montauk 150, w/60HP Mercury Bigfoot

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Re: 17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby jimh » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:06 am

Jack—I agree with your view that a Montauk 17 boat is too much boat and has too much speed and power for a 10-year-old to operate alone. Because the choice was between a Montauk 17 or an Outrage 18, the Outrage 18 is thus even more inappropriate for a 10-year-old to use alone.

Your concern about fuel tank problems with older Boston Whaler boats is a proper concern, but not every older Outrage has a bad fuel tank.

Finding a Montauk 17 will be much easier. Based on the local population of Montauk 17 boats and Outrage 18 boats, it looks like there are about five times more Montauk 17 boats around my area than Outrage 18 boats.

the 66 kid
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Re: 17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby the 66 kid » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:29 am

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Jim - is there another BW you think I should be considering for my purposes?

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Re: 17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby Dutchman » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:52 am

If the water is that protected and you might think a 17 ft boat is too much like some here said you could go with a smaller 15' boat. A 13' with a 10HP might be OK for a 10 year old but not for a family of 4. The 10 year old won't be operating the 15', 17', &/or 18' by himself without supervision even though he could after good instruction.
Based on that your original selection (Montauk 17, 170, or 18' Outrage would be perfect for your application and only limited by what you can find in the price range you are looking at and what the Admiral likes best.
EJO
"Clumsy Cleat"look up what it means
50th edition 2008 Montauk 150, w/60HP Mercury Bigfoot

the 66 kid
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Re: 15-footer

Postby the 66 kid » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:24 pm

[I] went to a buddy''s house today who has [a Super Sport 15] with [Yamaha 60]. His 11-year-old took me and my 10-year-old for a quick spin. I learned:

—a 15 is more boat than I thought and more than I remember, is remarkably stable with my big body walking around, and handled lake-chop well.

—[a 60-HP engine on a 15-footer is] plenty power to pop up skiers.

—a 15 will be fine for family trips to sandbar.

I think I am going to shift my search to a 15-footer—enough boat for family's needs and not too much for a 10-year-old and he can learn pretty quickly. The search is on.

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Re: 17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby jimh » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:11 am

Reassessing your target to a 15-footer from an Outrage 18 or a Montauk 17 is a good change in course. As I have mentioned many times, a 15-footer is the best small boat ever made, and also it is the biggest boat I would let a youngster operate alone. But I think a 15-foot classic Boston Whaler skiff with 60-HP is really a rocket ship—it’s going to go 40-MPH with one lightweight person aboard. As a first boat for a youngster a 15-footer with 60-HP will be a very fast boat and a temptation to them to go fast, perhaps too fast.

4whaler
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Re: 17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby 4whaler » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:10 pm

Have owned all except the 18--I skipped up to 21.

I agree with Jim: 15 is the best. I have had six, including a red Mischief. I still have two. The Mischief went to Texas with daughter and her family for water skiing. With one light person and a 60-HP propped correctly you can do [over] 40 and find yourself chine walking in a heartbeat. An E-TEC 60 and Yamaha F60 are what I have on my two current 15-footers, and both run about the same--except the one with the E-TEC is a commercial layup hull and heavier so doesn't tend to chine walk like the lighter one does.

3whalers&caddyresize (2).jpg
Fig. 1. Three Boston Whaler boats and a Cadillac
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Re: 17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby Don SSDD » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:37 am

Whatever 15-foot or 17-foot boat you buy will be illegal and too powerful for a 10-year-old to operate alone. TBuy a 17-footer for the room and comfort for the four adults use.

I'd expect the 15-footer would be as fast or faster than a 17-footer.

Or buy whatever 15- or 17-footer you find first that is worth buying.

Your kid will need guidance until he has the experience to operate either [a 15-foot or 17-foot] boat. I found the [Boston Whaler] 17 was a very stable and maneuverable boat that draws little water. For its size, there is nothing like a Boston Whaler 17-foot boat.
1986 Outrage 18 with 2001 Honda 130 HP
Former Owner 1991 Guardian 19 with 1994 Evinrude V4 140HP
Former owner 1987 Montauk with 1998 Mercury 90HP
Nova Scotia

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Re: 17 Montauk v. 18 Outrage

Postby NCWhaler828 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:24 pm

For what it's worth, I would go for the 17 Montauk. It's just easier to handle in my opinion. Where do you live? If Florida and going to sandbars and such, the Montauk is going to be easier to beach and lift off the bar. I used to even take my 150 Montauk 6 or 7 miles off of St Pete Beach to catch Kingfish and Grouper. Obviously a 18 Outrage would go farther than that, just depends on what you would be doing.

At the time i had that boat i had a 4 year old daughter and i always felt safe. Lots of good options on the market.