Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

A conversation among Whalers
pcrussell50
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Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby pcrussell50 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:04 pm

I am [in] Australia right now to play a cricket tournament.

Despite being the home of legendary ocean and surfing culture-- that was largely exported to and adopted by Southern California--Australia is utterly devoid of sanctimony and pretension.

New four-stroke-power-cycle outboard engines make up one quarter of the many-many-many trailer boats I am are seeing on the long, scenic, coastal route between Melbourne and Sydney. [About one-half of the engines seen are] carburetor oil-injected Yamaha engines--the best carburetor outboards ever--and modern carburetor and OptiMax engines. [About one-]quarter are old carburetor engines, by far mostly V4 cross-flow designs. But there are many carburetor 2-liter V6 Mercury outboard engines.

The huge message here by far: the culture [favors] continued service over disposability.

In a gigantic country with less than the population of California, and where the parts to keep older outboard engines running must come from very very far away indeed, the classic California, "My motor smokes a little on startup, so I better buy a new four stroke", mindset is utterly absent.

Even the fuel economy ruse falls flat here, as road gasoline is around $5-gallon. I am not sure what marina gasoline fuel cost. I'd be surprised if it is less than road gasoline.

I find it ironic that the excuses given in one country for the consumerist "replace-with-new" mindset, often given as fuel economy and parts costs, do not apply in another country where fuel costs are higher and parts are both more scarce and more expensive.

Somehow pragmatism trumps pretension and sanctimony here. And it's wonderful. I wish I were into boating back when I lived here.

-Peter

jimh
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby jimh » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:17 pm

I think you are equating buying a modern, computer-controlled, high-performance, low-emission, excellent fuel-economy, high-reliability outboard engine with being pretentious and sanctimonious.

pcrussell50
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby pcrussell50 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:28 am

jimh wrote:I think you are equating buying a modern, computer-controlled, high-performance, low-emission, excellent fuel-economy, high-reliability outboard engine with being pretentious and sanctimonious.


I think you are missing a subtlety. Based on my observations of two culturally similar locales, the economic and pragmatic argument for buying new, doesn’t seem to stand up to scrutiny. Of the six niceties you listed some are not matters of pragmatism, but rather are matters of self indulgence (which is fine as long as you know it and aren’t fooling yourself or worse, others). Some, like fuel economy, are huge fiscal losers compared with with keeping what you have. “High performance” made me chuckle. Notwithstanding brinksmanship in labeling, 100hp at the prop is 100hp new motor or old. And if there’s any space where old motors own it outright, it’s power-to-weight ratio. Further, the “high-reliability" might be a false flag as well. At least empirically. Australia is large, sparse, and remote. Consequences of a breakdown must be equally as grave and possibly a lot more so. I wouldn’t bet much on a high tolerance for unreliability here.

-Peter
Last edited by pcrussell50 on Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

jimh
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:51 am

Given characteristics of large and sparse, the ability to (at least try) to fix-it-yourself is probably the most important aspect of running 1970-era engines in Australia.

We all spend our disposable income on things that are indulgences.

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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:00 am

pcrussell50 wrote:New four-stroke-power-cycle outboard engines make up one quarter of the many-many-many trailer boats I am are seeing on the long, scenic, coastal route between Melbourne and Sydney. [About one-half of the engines seen are] carburetor oil-injected Yamaha engines--the best carburetor outboards ever--and modern carburetor and OptiMax engines. [About one-]quarter are old carburetor engines, by far mostly V4 cross-flow designs. But there are many carburetor 2-liter V6 Mercury outboard engines.


If I am reading this correctly, you intend to say:

Population of outboard engines in Australia:
Four-stroke-power-cycle engines = 25-percent
Carburetor Yamaha, other brand modern carburetor, Mercury-brand OptiMax engines = 50-percent
Older carburetor engines, mostly V4 crossflow design = 25-percent

Of the above total population, "many" engines are 2-liter V6 Mercury, which I presume must be spread across the categories of modern carburetor engines and older carburetor engines.

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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:44 am

My use of the term "high-performance" refers to the general nature of certain engines to have a very broad engine speed range over which they can deliver their rated horsepower as opposed to engines which have a peaked horsepower curve that delivers the rated power only at a narrow engine speed range.

pcrussell50
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby pcrussell50 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:47 am

jimh wrote:Given characteristics of large and sparse, the ability to (at least try) to fix-it-yourself is probably the most important aspect of running 1970-era engines in Australia.

We all spend our disposable income on things that are indulgences.


This is a plausible hypothesis. I cannot disagree.

jimh wrote:Of the above total population, "many" engines are 2-liter V6 Mercury, which I presume must be spread across the categories of modern carburetor engines and older carburetor engines.


I should clarify. I meant that those two-liter V6 Mercurys in the context I mentioned them, refer to those of approximately the same generation as the V4 crossflows...nominally, mid-'70's through early '90's. While they were out numbered by the V4 crossflows by quite a bit, there were hardly any others besides these two in that vintage. Anything older than that vintage that looked like it was still in regular service (as opposed to novelty/show duty), was the very occasional Mercury in line six.

Another takeaway I observed besides the "wring every last bit of utility out of the old motors" mindset, was something that should warm all our hearts as outboard lovers... And that is that almost every trailer boat was an outboard, whether hardcore fishing or recreational types. The stereotypical American I/O with a Clorox bottle side profile was non existent. I did not see a single one. And on a percentage basis of total traffic there were a LOT of boats.

In summary, the Aussies appear to be mad about boats, outboards by a nearly unanimous majority, and of those, modern four stroke cycles are the no more common than the earliest motors of the modern era (loosely defined by me as beginning in the mid-late '70's).

This does not mean that Aussies love old motors. Old motors were not the most common. Just practical motors... Current technology carbureted motors, the kind that are still produced new and sold in less regulatory bureaucratic countries. Motors new enough to have been built new, long after emissions regulations in countries with more powerful regulatory bureaucracies had banned such things.

I should finish by saying that there was a very small handful of V-drive, dedicated tow boats. About three per eight hour drive.

-Peter

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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:53 am

The prevalence of sterndrive boats in the USA is probably related to the availability of automotive V6 and V8 engines at low prices, and to predominantly freshwater lake use. I don't think sterndrives in the USA are seen much at all in saltwater boating.

I would suspect that most boating in Australia is done in the ocean at the coastal areas. I don't think they have anything like the Great Lakes down there.

fno
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby fno » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:26 am

Not to mention an 8 hour drive in Australia does not make for a broad cross section survey except for the part of Australia btween Melbourne and Sydney since there is an additional 148 hours of driving to see the complete coastline of Australia. But I do get the point and appreciate others observations of boating in far away places. I do it as well.

jimh
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:52 am

Australia does have a refreshing attitude about some aspects of boating and modern life. A outboard dealer from Australia posted some old magazine advertisements from the 1960's for outboard boats and engines. They featured the usual good looking bathing suit models, but several were wearing the then popular topless bathing suits. Now you would never see that in the USA. Probably won't see it in Australia any more, either.

pcrussell50
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby pcrussell50 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:28 pm

fno wrote:Not to mention an 8 hour drive in Australia does not make for a broad cross section survey except for the part of Australia btween Melbourne and Sydney since there is an additional 148 hours of driving to see the complete coastline of Australia. But I do get the point and appreciate others observations of boating in far away places. I do it as well.


It was about 16 hours of driving, spread over three days, with plenty of stops in cute towns for my two little girls to get out and play. Some were marina towns, too.

I grew up here. And visit often... About twice a year. The only thing new about this thread is that this observation is taken between two major coastal cities, during summer holiday season. Normally we are much further north, between Cairns and Cooktown, where I have observed the same thing as I did between Melbourne and Sydney, only a much smaller sample due to lower population in the region. I have posted here in another thread about the mix of boats and outboards I have seen there, too. Based on this drive, I see little difference other than sheer numbers.

Pragmatism seems to trump all else here. At least when it comes to recreational boating. Again though, I was not a boater while growing up here.

-Peter

fno
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby fno » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:03 pm

Peter, thanks for the clarification. I have made three trips to Australia in my life for mainly work and some diving as well. Wonderful country, wonderful people and a fun time. Adelaide, Sydney, Cairns, and Melbourne were my points of interest at the time.

dtmackey
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby dtmackey » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:35 pm

I'll share some of my thoughts:

- Australia allowed the sale of 2 stroke carbrated motors well after the cutoff the U.S. EPA mandated. Don't quote me, but I believe the U.S. phased out 2 strokes in 2008, yet Australia did this in 2018. 10 years in outboard terms is a long time.
- 2 stroke carb motors are simple and less expensive to manufacture, thus they should have been more affordable than 4 strokes, so cost conscious buyers would be more apt to consider 2 stroke.
- 2 stroke carb outboards last a long time and I still see many from the 70s and 80s still in use. 2 years ago I sold a carb 2 stroke motor that I purchased in 1979 and it still ran like new.

I own several other 2 stroke carb motors that I will never part with or consider trading, even for a brand new for a brand 4 stroke because the two stroke carbs motors have superior power to weight ratios over 4 stroke and unmatched torque in the lower RPMs that help get a boat onto plane.

D-

pcrussell50
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby pcrussell50 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 pm

As to not garner any undeserved kind treatment, I am an American. It just happens that I grew up here in Australia, so a lot of my acculturation including my taste in sports :cough:cricket:cough: has come from here.

-Peter

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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby jimh » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:35 am

I want to make three important disclosures regarding my relationship with Australia:

--I have never been to Australia;

--I read "The Thorn Birds" back in the 1970's;

--I stayed up to 3 a.m. every night for a week in January 1987 to watch the live broadcast of the America's Cup race from Perth where Dennis Connor won back the cup with STARS AND STRIPES 87 (US-55)--the most exciting America's Cup race ever--and many years later I had the chance to very briefly be helmsman on that same boat while racing in the Caribbean at Sint Maartin.

pcrussell50
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby pcrussell50 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:04 pm

jimh wrote:--I stayed up to 3 a.m. every night for a week in January 1987 to watch the live broadcast of the America's Cup race from Perth where Dennis Connor won back the cup with STARS AND STRIPES 87 (US-55)--the most exciting America's Cup race ever--and many years later I had the chance to very briefly be helmsman on that same boat while racing in the Caribbean at Sint Maartin.


What an experience! Not many could say that.

-Peter

jimh
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Re: Outboard Mix between Melbourne and Sydney

Postby jimh » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:13 pm

pcrussell50 wrote:What an experience! Not many could say that.


Yes, it was amazing that I was aboard the actual AC winner, and even cooler that I got a turn at the helm. There is a small fleet, about four or five, retired 12-Meter boats in the harbor at Sint Maartin, and you can go "racing" on them for a modest fee, maybe $100 by now. Of course, they are not quite rigged as they were for AC racing, as they have a smaller roller-furling genoa, the main sail is smaller, and there is no spinnaker. So you don't get to do any fancy spinnaker take-downs behind the genoa, or any spinnaker pole jibes, like the racing crew used to do like a finely-tuned orchestra. But it was a kick to go out.

My only other Australian interaction was contacting other radio amateurs in Australia on the 14-MHz and 21-MHz Amateur Bands. There were some Aussies (VK-callsigns) who lived out on big farms that had very large antenna arrays that produced fabulous signals. All back in my days when amateur radio was my passion. I more or less gave that up for boating about 30-years ago.