1969 13-footer Father-Son Restoration

[Mikeymeg]

I'll start by saying I've never owned a Boston Whaler boat, but dreamed of owning one since I was 12. I remember as a kid looking through the classifieds and begging my father to at least go look at one to no avail. The closest I've come is the boat before the one I have now was a 19-foot Edgewater which is kind of a cousin to Boston Whaler.

This past weekend at the Atlantic City boat show my 14-year-old son got the same feeling I had as a child when he saw the Boston Whaler display. When we arrived home we immediately started looking for a used 13-footer on-line. The days of looking through the newspaper or Salty Dog are gone I guess. We found a 1969 13-footer with a trailer but no engine, which is OK since we live in New Jersey and he can only operate a boat with less then 10-HP. I will add a 9.9 and upgrade to a 30 or 40 when he is 16.

I plan on looking at the boat next weekend. I am just curious: what should I look for that would be an obvious deal breaker? As I've been doing some research in preparation for this weekend's viewing of the boat, I've read that water infusion in the foam is problematic. What is the best way to test for this without a moisture meter?

I was thinking without a motor I should be able to lift the bow and stern off the trailer (separately of course) given the weight is supposed to be around 320-lbs. Also, I'll try tapping the hull in various locations listening to the sound.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Asking price is $2,400 but the seller says he is open to offers.

[jimh]

With the seller asking $2,400 for a 36-or-37-year-old 13-footer on a trailer that is too small, I would suspect he'll have to listen to offers if he wants to sell it. Is the seller a long-time owner of this boat? If he is, then he knows he paid a lot less than that for it.

Have you already read "Buying Classic Boston Whaler"? If not, you can retrieve it from

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/buying.html

The boat you are considering has a transom sized for 15-inch-shaft-length outboard engines. Those engines are hard to find these days. The usual solution is to modify the hull to raise the transom height to suit 20-inch-shaft outboard engines. That is a real project in itself.

This hull is not so old that there is any special mystique about it being a really early hull. It is a hull from the last years of the very earliest 13-foot models. It is what we would call a "smirk-less" 13-footer, the "smirk" being the unusual appearance of the chine lines coming up and meeting at the bow stem that is seen on most Boston Whaler classic-era hulls.

The trailer set up looks terrible: about half the boat is hanging off the back of the trailer. Is the trailer licensed and road-worthy?

Overall, I am not too impressed. If you want a project boat, this is it, but don't buy it at a price that ought to get you a much newer boat, in better condition.

[Mikeymeg]

I have not read it but will. Seller also states the trailer needs bunks I assume it is sitting on the frame of the trailer now but will know when I look at it this weekend. He also said it needs a coupler for the front of the trailer.

[jimh]

The seller is telling you the trailer is worthless. I was going to give it a $100 value, but not any more.

By the way, in 1970 a 13-foot Boston Whaler sold new for $750.

[Binkster]

If the boat is dry you should be able to lift a corner of the stern with out a lot of effort.

rich

[Mikeymeg]

Thanks for all the feedback guys I also found a 1985 I'm going to look at.

[fno]

Like wives and dogs, don't settle for the first one that crosses your path. There are literally thousands of those boats out there at all levels of quality. Make some decisions with your son, mainly do you want to spend the rest of the year (including summer) restoring a beat up boat, or buy something that with some minor work will be on the water as soon as the weather turns. When fall arrives all too soon, you and the kid will be ready to do the real restoration work and his interest will be measured if not tempered by the summer he had with "his" Whaler.

[Mikeymeg]

That's funny "His" Whaler. I always said I would never live vicariously through my children but I may have to make an exception in this case.

[Oldslowandugly]

That boat looks like a decent project but I think it was dumped on a trailer belonging to a dinghy. How handy are you? If you got that boat for a song you could just buy a better trailer. If you are handy then you could fix it up. I would move the hull forward, add long bunks, and relocate the axle for better weight balance. That assumes the trailer frame is sound, and not rusted.

[Mikeymeg]

I'm pretty handy but don't have a lot of experience repairing fiberglass last time I did it was 25 years ago when I would fix my own surfboard. As for the trailer I need it to be safe and not damage the boat but we live on the water so it will be docked in the yard splashed in the spring and pulled in the fall at a ramp about 1/4 mile from me.

[Oldslowandugly]

If you can fix a surfboard (and have it come out pretty) then a boat is not much different. But the trailer needs to support the hull keel with rollers down the center, then bunks on each side for lateral support. This will explain it better than I can. http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/trailering/trailer.html Maybe you could transport the boat some other way (rent a trailer) while you fix this trailer. Again, it needs to be not rusted out, if it is then forget it. As for the 9.9, that would be perfect as a starter motor. When I first got my old 18 foot aluminum skiff, I used a Johnson 9.9/15 and it planed well with the right prop.

[Mikeymeg]

Great information about the trailer style I didn't know that.

Thanks

[Oldslowandugly]

I was in your situation years ago. My old 18 foot aluminum skiff needed a bunk trailer but any trailer that would hold an 18 foot fiberglass boat was way too stiff for aluminum. I bought a new galvanized trailer that was designed for a 15 to 16 foot fiberglass boat and I adapted it to hold the skiff. The springs rating was close to what I needed. I built longer bunks with treated lumber and carpet, and moved the winch pole forward. I relocated the axle for better balance. Even though the bunks overhung the trailer like the one you are looking at, it handled the aluminum hull very well. After 20 odd years of use it was still in great shape because I painted it religiously with Pettit Trailer Coat urethane paint. When I scored my 15 foot Whaler I re-adapted the same 15-16 foot trailer to the unique Whaler hull. I mounted wide Stoltz rollers down the middle, and bunks along the sponsons just like the article indicated. I also lengthened the tongue so my tow vehicle wheels could stay farther from the water. That's why I say if the trailer is not rusted then you can adapt it to what you need. Since you are so close to the ramp, it would not be hard to get it into safe condition. I would point out all the defects to the guy and offer a dirt cheap offer. Maybe he just wants to be rid of it and you and your son would have an inexpensive project. Just for laughs, here is a pic of the trailer that came with my Whaler. Small wheels, short frame, boat not properly fitted to trailer, totally inadequate, not unlike the one you are looking at. I kept it to use under the aluminum skiff, using the same long bunks and springs, so I can sell it. It looks like a mis-matched disaster, but it easily safely handles the light weight skiff. It's all in how you balance the weight. The second pic is my original 27 year old trailer that now carries the Whaler.

[Mikeymeg]

Thanks for the info that Whaler sits nice on that trailer of yours. I will need to make some adjustments to the winch post for sure then look to adjust the axle for proper tongue weight.

[padrefigure]

That should be much less than $1000. There is a 1967 Whaler 16 on Craigslist in Austin, TX for $600 and I routinely see 13's without power in that price range. I like the concept--build a 13 for a toy and move up over time. But for $2400, you should be looking at a late 70's or early 80's 13 with a roadworthy trailer and 30-40 hp in operating condition.

[Mikeymeg]

Yes I have to temper my enthusiasm and find the right boat at the right price. Below is what I've come up with as a restoration plan.

-Phase one any fiberglass repair, painting, gel coat restoration if possible, 9.9 tiller outboard, bench seat to operate from, and any required trailer repairs.
-Phase two (when he is 16) a bigger motor with new interior to accommodate a side console.

Hopefully by the time phase two comes he'll have a part time job and pitch in some money.

[Mikeymeg]

Found what appears to be a much better deal (under 2k) fingers crossed scheduled to look at it Sunday.
1965 13'
2004 25 hp Yamaha 4 stroke
Trailer has new tires
Recently painted topside
New rub rail

[padrefigure]

I would be careful with an extended tiller on a 25 with a young operator. 13's are very nimble which means that turn fast enough to jerk driver and passengers around dangerously. Less HP as you plan would be a must. With the bracket set up shown in the picture, you may be able to add Teleflex steering via a tilt tube. I would strongly prefer this arrangement over the post and ball set up required when a short shaft outboard is installed on the transom.

[Mikeymeg]

Is there a way to govern a 9.9 down? I was thinking it would be nice to start governed down and move it up slowly as he gains more experience.

[Oldslowandugly]

An OMC 9.9 and 15hp are the same motor. What makes it a 15 is a slightly larger carb. So a 9.9 is already toned down. What you can do is adjust the carb/throttle so it can't reach WOT. From idle up to WOT is pretty tame, but at WOT even the 9.9 is pretty strong, and my 15hp pushed my 18 foot skiff briskly. Another way is to choose a small pitch prop that can carry a load ( assuming he will be taking friends along) and that can't go very fast. As for that second boat- much better! But I would do as suggested and use the console with Teleflex Safe-T steering. You can get the whole kit, with cable, for around a hundred bucks. Only question would be is that 25 hp equipped for tilt tube steering or would you need to find an engine steering bracket adapter and transom mounting bracket for the cable.

[Mikeymeg]

I like the idea of a smaller pitched prop but do I need to worry about the RPM's being to high or do you think this engine might have a rev limiter?

[Oldslowandugly]

I started seeing rev limiters built into OMC CD powerpacs around the mid 80's. I can't speak for other makes, but it would seem likely. But like I said, you can adjust the carb linkage so it won't open all the way. In fact, in my factory manuals, that is a spec to be checked and adjusted, that it does in fact open all the way. How mechanical is your son? Could he figure out if that was done, and defeat it? If he could, then he is probably going to squeeze the most out of it anyway.

[Mikeymeg]

How mechanical is your son? Could he figure out if that was done, and defeat it? If he could, then he is probably going to squeeze the most out of it anyway.

If it was an IPad he would figure it out, on an outboard he'll only know what I teach him.

[Oldslowandugly]

Sounds like my Grandson. If it was a video game, he'd be all over it.

[Dutchman]

I like the idea of a smaller pitched prop but do I need to worry about the RPM's being to high or do you think this engine might have a rev limiter?

You must choose another propeller if you don't adjust the wide-open throttle. For example [choose] a 4-bladed that will still push the boat with his buddies, but limit the RPM.

Smaller [propeller] pitch doesn't always mean less [boat] speed as the [engine] RPM would go up.

Sorry--I can't tell you which propeller, but four-bladed propellers with maybe slightly larger pitch will slow down [engine crankshaft speed].

Your best bet is to have your son contact the local United States Power Squadron and have him take some classes (or at least the America's Boating Class). He will be taught by you and the USPS how to responsibly and safely boat, and that will stay with him all his life. It will be agood deal for you too as you can get an insurance discount. Take the class with the whole family.

[Mikeymeg]

Good advice. Thanks, Dutchman.

I did take a class with my wife several years ago when New Jersey made it law for a license, and my son will soon, as well. Daughter will be next. She is only 11, so I have a couple years.

[Mikeymeg]

The search continues.

I received a text (from the guy whose boat I was scheduled to look at tomorrow) informing me he sold it today. I'm not happy. It appeared to be a great deal at $1,950 for what looked like a nicely restored 13-footer with a 2004 Yamaha 25-HP four-stroke-cycle engine and nice trailer.

The good news is someone on a local forum I'm on saw I was looking for one and said he has one he doesn't use much anymore. It's a 1975 he restored in 2005, and has a 2004 Yamaha F25. I did like the fact he said it's been sitting in the garage. Waiting on pictures and a price fingers crossed.

[jimh]

Boston Whaler boats in good condition, with a modern outboard engine, on a licensed and road-worthy trailer, and offered for sale at a reasonable price tend to sell very fast. If you want a chance to buy one you need to be the first buyer to see it in person; and bring cash. The ongoing demand for classic Boston Whaler boats in good condition remains strong, as they represent excellent values compared to buying a new boat.

ASIDE: when I bought my present Boston Whaler, I found the advertisement for it a few hours after it was posted to an internet used boat listing. I called the seller immediately. It was on a Sunday evening. He was located about 300-miles away. I told him I would like to see the boat in person. He said maybe we could set something up for next weekend. I said, "How about tomorrow?" We settled on Wednesday. I arranged to take the day off work. I brought a cashier's check and cash equal to the asking price. We quickly made a deal and the boat went from his driveway to his bank, where we handled the paperwork. He told me that he had received numerous calls about the boat in the two days since I called him. I was the first person to actually see the boat. I bought it after only the briefest inspections. It was in excellent condition and the price was quite fair for that boat, that model, and that time.

The seller in your first example was delusional. He thought any Boston Whaler was a gold mine to be tapped. Sorry for him, but that is not the case, at least not with informed-buyers.

[Mikeymeg]

Thanks Jim lesson learned. When we talked he said "how about Monday since this weekend is going to be brutally cold". I should have said that's ok I'll dress warm :) oh well everything happens for a reason.

[Oldslowandugly]

I agree, you snooze- you lose. My Whaler was quite far away but I insisted on seeing it immediately. It was in very rough condition and the seller admitted that and priced it accordingly. He had paid a lot for it and somehow he trashed the console, propeller, and railings. Luckily I was looking for a bare hull to set up my way and I gave him a deposit on the spot. The next week I drove back with my tow vehicle and when he handed me the keys, the key float was from the very same marina I was at. They had slapped it on a cheap trailer and sold it to him for more than twice what I paid him. Go see this boat and be prepared to drop the hammer.

[jimh]

I forgot to add this: I asked the seller for the trailer ball hitch size. I bought a ball hitch in that size so I could be sure to trailer it home immediately.

[Mikeymeg]

Got pictures and a price ($4,000) from a guy on a local forum that is thinking of selling his. As stated earlier it's a 1975 13' that was restored in 2005 which included a new 25 Yamaha 4 stroke and a trailer he purchased last year that's seen the water once. He's asking more than I wanted to spend but as FMO stated in an earlier post my son will be able to enjoy it this year instead of restoring for the next 9-18 months. The gentleman is going to list it in the spring but let me know before hand. All I have to do now is convince the wife I would have spent more on a project boat than this one which is already done.

[Oldslowandugly]

"All I have to do now is convince the wife "- that's the easy part. Getting her to let her baby boy take a boat out alone, now that's going to be a task. My wife still thinks our 30+ year old daughters are still needing training wheels. How do you keep finding better and better Whalers? I suppose next you'll find a 20 year old showroom model that's never seen water!

[jimh]

This latest prospect boat looks much better. There is much value tied up in that modern outboard engine of a premium brand name. To assess the price of the hull, estimate the value of just the engine. The engine may be worth $1,800 alone. The trailer also looks good. Figure the trailer value is $700. That means you are getting the boat for $1,500. The boat looks to be in very good condition, It has the proper 20-inch transom, which alone will have saved you $500 in materials for a project to raise the transom of that other boat. So now the boat is only $1000. This is a steal for a Boston Whaler in that condition.

On the other hand, it is mid-winter, the boat is indoors, you cannot really sea-trial it, you probably cannot run the engine. Start your offer a littler lower because of the time of year.

Also, get a comparable price for a brand new 130 SUPER SPORT from a Whaler Dealer. A few years ago you could get a new 13-footer for $10,000. This will give you something to think about before spending $4,000 on a used 13-footer.

[Maverick]

My son and I fished out of and enjoyed an older 13 with 25HP Johnson for a summer....lots of fun. Only thing I wished it had was power trim on the motor...lifting (tilting) that thing up and down manually was not as easy as pressing a button.

I like the idea of the higher transom, too. My 13 had the low transom...

Thanks, Mav

[Mikeymeg]

Getting her to let her baby boy take a boat out alone, now that's going to be a task.

It's almost like you've been listening to our conversations.

[Mikeymeg]

On the other hand, it is mid-winter, the boat is indoors, you cannot really sea-trial it, you probably cannot run the engine. Start your offer a littler lower because of the time of year.

Initially I thought I would keep looking knowing I have this one in my pocket come spring but missing out on the last boat has convinced me not to delay. At the very least I'll pick a mild day and run the motor on muffs before purchasing.

[Mikeymeg]

How do you keep finding better and better Whalers? I suppose next you'll find a 20 year old showroom model that's never seen water!

Search, search, search and more searching. In all honesty this last one fell in my lap, it's from a local fishing forum where I asked a guy in a thread how he liked his 13' Whaler he had listed in his signature because I was looking for one for my son. The guy with one for sale sent me a private message saying he has one they don't use much and was thinking of selling it.

Mike

[Mikeymeg]

Well it's official my son is a Boston Whaler owner. The boat bought the day before I was scheduled to look at was on put Craigslist Saturday night. The guy that listed said "For sale no motor recently purchased just for the newer motor". Not a bad boat but it does have some problems I have questions about.

1 Title Says 1987 and it clearly is pre 1971 with the lower transom.
2 The awlgrip is cracked in spots above the rub rail
3 No drain tube in the drain between the cockpit and the splaswell.
4 Seats are solid but need to be refinished.
5 Stern is not sitting on center roller of trailer (needs adjustment).
6 No paperwork for trailer.

I'll post pictures shortly.

[Mikeymeg]

Photos attached are of the chipping awlgrip other pictures are in my post from 2/11/16. Sorry for being black and white it was the only way to have the file small enough to upload.

[Mikeymeg]

The last owner painted the norman pin with awlgrip when he painted the boat and I'm not a fan. Can this be removed and if so what way would be best chemical or a wire brush on a bench top grinder?

[Oldslowandugly]

Congratulations! So the guy who beat you out just yanked the motor then resold it to you? Confusing! Those cracks are typical of repaint jobs. You have to really prepare the surface right and even then you might see some bad stuff later on. Those cracks are pretty severe and I would chip or power sand then down and see why it happened. If large sections flip off from sanding then the painter did a poor prep job or re-coated too thickly too soon. If it is localized then just remove the bad part and prep and re-coat. As for the pin if you can get it off without destroying it, then removing the paint will be much easier. If it won't budge then doing it on the boat will risk damaging the surrounding surface. Worse, if he used a urethane paint the usual chemical removers might not do the job. Test and see. Take a spot that will be removed anyway, like those cracks, and place a drop of stripper on it. If it softens, it is regular Alkyd paint and you can tape off the area and safely apply stripper to the pin. Boat title doesn't match? Could be a paperwork snafu or something smelly happened over time. No one will ever tell what year it is just by looking at it. Trailer is the problem. I got around that once by claiming it was a home made trailer. They wanted an official weigh station weight report, a complete list of materials used, and receipts plus taxes paid, but I got it done. Hopefully your state has a simple process for a no-paperwork situation.

[Mikeymeg]

Yes the guy that beat me to it just wanted the motor, I wound up paying $1,500 which I think is fair. I was able to get the Norman pin off and the paint chips off relatively easily. As for the trailer I reached out to the guy that originally had the boat and he's going to give me a notarized bill of sale and an old registration next weekend. Started sanding today spent about 3 hours and got one bench done. Started with 80 grit moved to 120 then 220 a lot of work but it looks like it just came from the mill. Back at it tomorrow for a few hours or till the wife says I need to spend some time with her.

[Oldslowandugly]

Great news on the trailer. That is a huge headache avoided. Now the fun begins- the more you look the more you'll find and on and on it goes......