Downside of Hydraulic Steering

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Jefecinco
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Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby Jefecinco » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:12 am

Overall hydraulic steering is a big plus but there is a downside. Yesterday while taking our 190 Montauk with hydraulic steering from Orange Beach, AL to Pensacola, FL I noticed some wander during long stretch of "No Wake Zone" off Ono Island. The wind had picked up considerably above the forecast four to six MPH so I attributed the wander to the rougher water and stronger wind.

As we approached the Perdido Island Bridge in Florida we were again in a "No Wake Zone" so as we idled along I needed to adjust to the strong cross wind and found I was turning the steering wheel from lock to lock with only slight results. I then noticed the engine well had a good amount of hydraulic fluid pooling in it. Sure enough a steering cylinder seal had failed.

In the ten years we have owned the Montauk I've never had to add fluid to the steering system and I don't keep any on the boat. We turned around and limped to the nearest marina, Holiday Harbor, and tied up at their restaurant, Sunset Grill, with the help of a dock attendant. We managed to buy a quart of fluid ($26 with tax) and using the tools that came with the boat refilled and bled the system.

We decided our day on the water was over so headed back to Orange Beach. When we entered the long "No Wake Zone" off Ono Island the fluid level had leaked down to the point where steering control was very difficult but we managed to make it back to Zeke's Marina where we keep the boat.

I've replaced a cylinder seal on the Montauk before and it was relatively easy once the parts and special tools were purchased but as my 80th birthday approaches I no longer do that kind of work. I'll be calling the marina's mechanic tomorrow.

The hydraulic steering system is the OE installed Uflex brand.
Last edited by Jefecinco on Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Butch

Masbama
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby Masbama » Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:48 pm

I think you mean 190 Montauk my friend.
There are a lot of no wake zones down there these days.

Jefecinco
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby Jefecinco » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:31 am

Edited, thank you.
Butch

floater
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby floater » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:16 am

I have the same Uflex on my Revenge. I keep two spare bottles of oil and my two water bottle and hoses bleeding system on board for such emergencies. Good thing you weren't way off shore.

jimh
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby jimh » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:26 am

While cruising in northern Lake Superior around remote Isle Royale, my friend lost hydraulic steering on his OUTRAGE 25 with twin engines. The cause was not from a leak of hydraulic fluid, but rather due to loss of air pressure in the mechanism. The presumed-to-be OEM steering used a helm pump that needs air pressure provided by a small air reservoir in order to work. The remedy was to get help from a local whose boat had the same system and who had a bicycle-type small air hand-pump.

A drop in air temperature of 50-degrees and atmospheric pressure falling to 992-mBar due the passing of a huge cold front and low pressure system may have caused the loss of air pressure in the steering system reservoir. The existence of the air reservoir was unknown to all of us and came as a surprise.

El Rollo
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby El Rollo » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:16 pm

I have Baystar steering. When the [air temperate rises to] over 100-degrees-F a very small amount of oil will come out of the threaded filler cap on the helm. I usually will crack open [the vent cap] ever so lightly to relieve pressure. The steering seems to have stayed the same, with no excess 'play'.

Would it be a good idea to bleed the system occasionally to get rid of any air?

Thanks in advance.

NLA01
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby NLA01 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:41 pm

JEFE’—I hope I am as active as you when I turn 80. Hats off to you sir and happy 80th birthday.

I found this at Seastar for preventive maintenance
http://www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/hydraulic-steering-maintenance.pdf

I have always heard that one should bleed every two years and do a full flush if the fluid is not clear. Clear fluid is good, cloudy is bad, real bad.

Hydraulic steering is not a sealed system, but has a vent in the helm. The vent will allow moisture which eventually make the helm pistons and springs rust.

Also if you do a full flush you are supposed to bleed it once again on the day afterwards. Flushing introduces micro bubble which will dissolve into air by one day after and then will need one additional bleed to make it a tight system.

JEFE’—the helm on your boat had a catastrophic failure and glad you made it in safe. And I am glad you had warning.

ROLLO—If fluid is being pushed out during warm temperatures I would worry it may be low when it gets cooler so you might want to top if off once the temperature decreases. Hydraulic fluid does expand with higher temperature.—Archie

jimh
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby jimh » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:18 pm

If during very warm ambient temperature there is fluid venting from the hydraulic steering, then there was too much fluid in the system.

floater
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby floater » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:05 am

My original Helm filler cap had a weep hole in it. After I cross threaded that cap i ordered a new one without the weep hole. On very hot days it seems to seep around the rubber gasket under the filler cap. All is good though and works great.

Jefecinco
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby Jefecinco » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:14 am

Thanks to all for the replies.

The lesson learned from this episode is that hydraulic steering can fail with little warning. Some failures are difficult to predict. I believe the most common are helm pump failure or leaks. Helm pumps will often provide some warning that failure is imminent. Changes in steering smoothness or some new noise from the pump are pretty good indications that as a minimum an inspection is required.

Leaks are more difficult to predict. The worst case is a hose failure which can be sudden causing total steering failure. Other than replacing the hose and refilling and bleeding the system you are out of business. Seal failures, at least, are not catastrophic. A slow leak is the usual warning. A quick visual check before moving the boat should be sufficient. If fluid is detected you are on borrowed time.

In our case had I checked the steering cylinder and or fluid reservoir before departure I would probably have detected the leak. My corrective action is to add a visual steering cylinder and fluid reservoir level inspection before preparing to go boating and to add a quart of fluid and the items needed to use it to the on-board spares. Adding a spare hose may also be prudent.

The Uflex system installed by Boston Whaler with the four cylinder supercharged Verados are vented systems and use vented fill caps.
Butch

B.E.Coyote
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby B.E.Coyote » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:13 pm

[Meant to say that the downside of hydraulic steering is that it causes there to be] more turns of the wheel to go lock-to-lock
2001 Dauntless 160
Virginia Beach

Jefecinco
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby Jefecinco » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:37 am

True, hydraulic steering requires more turns than cable steering but those turns are so very much easier with hydraulic steering. I see a lot of "necker knobs" on big boats with hydraulic steering. Does anyone remember "necker knobs"?
Butch

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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby biggiefl » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:10 am

Do you mean "Suicide Knobs"?
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

Jefecinco
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby Jefecinco » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:29 am

The name depends upon the users intended use of the device. When I started seriously learning to drive at age 12 steering knob would have been a good choice. By my first car purchase at age 13 "brodie knob" would have worked. I had no license so dirt back roads were where I mostly drove. A little later "necker knob" was a more appropriate name.
Butch

B.E.Coyote
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby B.E.Coyote » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:51 pm

I have a knob on the wheel and when standing up driving in a chop you must be very careful with it around sensitive body parts. I am not looking to commit suicide but I could see a scenario with it that would having me wishing I was dead.
2001 Dauntless 160
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jimh
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby jimh » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:43 pm

I don't have any knob on the steering wheel attached to my hydraulic steering helm pump.

I don't see any particular disadvantage of hydraulic steering. If there were a better system, I am sure it would have been invented by now.

Tomtep
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby Tomtep » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:17 am

My experience with the knobs, is that they are much better when the steering wheel is more horizontal than vertical. I had a knob on my 31' inboard powered boat, and it made steering much easier. I would not put one on my classic outrage as I feel it would get in the way, not much room when standing at the helm.

El Rollo
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby El Rollo » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:47 am

I have a Schmitt brand 11-inch Destroyer-style stainless steering wheel with an Edson knob on my 15-foot Boston Whaler boat with BAYSTAR steering--talk about nice and easy to use. As user TOMTEP said, the knob does work much better when the wheel is more horizontal.

One of my favorite features on my rig for sure is the steering set up.

jimh
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Re: Downside of Hydraulic Steering

Postby jimh » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:35 pm

Tomtep wrote:I would not put [a knob attachment to the steering wheel] on my classic OUTRAGE as I feel it would get in the way, not much room when standing at the helm.


Very acute observation. I agree. The orientation of the helm steering wheel on my boat is more vertical than horizontal, and the distance between the wheel and the helm pilot seat is limited. No room for a knob.

But knobs are really not something related to hydraulic steering, the topic of this discussion.

Hydraulic steering does not mean that the number of turns of the wheel will be greater than if another system were used. In hydraulic steering systems the number of turns lock-to-lock is related to the volume of fluid needed to actuate the steering ram gear and the volume of fluid produced by one rotation of the helm pump. If fewer turns of the wheel are desired, this can be done simply by ordering a helm pump with a higher fluid output per turn of the wheel.

Having fewer turns of the wheel lock-to-lock is not always an advantage. When underway on plane at high speeds, steering a boat with a very sensitive steering wheel could be tricky. About the only time when few turns lock-to-lock seems to be useful is at low speed maneuvering, as in coming to a pier or dock, when the engine might need to be quickly turned from hard-to-Port to hard-to-Starboard to better control the boat. The amount of time that my boat is underway when I am coming to a dock is very limited. If I go boating for two hours, of that time I might be coming to a dock for about 1-minute. As a percentage of time underway, coming to the dock is then 1 part in 120 or less than one-percent of the time. The rest of the time there really is not any particularly strong desire to have a very low number of turns lock-to-lock in the steering. And, again if there were a desire, you could obtain that by ordering the appropriate helm pump.

About the only application where a hydraulic steering system might be bothersome is with multiple engines that used two (or more) steering actuators. If there are two steering actuators then the volume of fluid needed is doubled, and even with a larger helm pump the number of turns lock-to-lock will be rather high. Of course, what other options are there? You cannot control twin 300-HP outboard engines with a mechanical cable linked steering or wire-rope and pulley steering system.

There really is no huge disadvantage to hydraulic steering other than the concern for the integrity of the high-pressure hydraulic system. Ingress of air and loss of fluid result in loss of steering, but even with some air in the lines and with some loss of fluid, steering control can be maintained, albeit not as well as when the system is working as designed.

Purging of air is a common problem, and I suspect that many systems are in operation now with some air in them. Using a power-purging device to remove air from a hydraulic system usually results in very little retained air. Boaters who report that their hydraulic steering needs repeated or routine purging to remove air probably have a leak in their system or are operating the helm pump with insufficient fluid in the reservoir. If a hydraulic system is working properly, air does not get into the system.