BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

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jimh
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BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

Postby jimh » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:29 pm

In a presentation to investors and analysts on October 29, 2019, in Palm Beach, Florida, Bombardier Recreational Products (BRP) showed a new concept for their marine engines, developed in accordance with their strategy of being an innovative marine engine builder and to more fully integrate the outboard engine into their in-house boat brands. This new concept is referred to as PROJECT GHOST.

BRP recently acquired three boat building companies, ALUMA-CRAFT, MANITOU, and QUNTREX. In their presentation they showed concept images of three boats, one from each of their boat building companies, as they would appear with a fully integrated outboard engine:

ALUMACraft.jpg
Fig. 1. An AlumaCraft aluminum fishing boat with the GHOST concept outboard engine integration.
ALUMACraft.jpg (60.92 KiB) Viewed 6022 times


Manitou.jpg
Fig. 2. A Manitou pontoon boat shown with twin GHOST concept outboard engines.
Manitou.jpg (96.3 KiB) Viewed 6022 times


Quintrex.jpg
Fig. 3. A Quintrex aluminum boat concept with a GHOST concept engine.
Quintrex.jpg (55.34 KiB) Viewed 6022 times


The images above are not actual photographs, based on comparison to identical images which appear to be photographs showing E-TEC G2 engines powering those boats. The inference is the above three images are concept drawings of how BRP will be integrating their GHOST conecept engines into their own boat brands.

Based on the concept images, the integrated engine is still fundamentally an outboard engine, that is, the engine is not contained inside the boat's hull interior space. Instead, the engine appears to be substantially reduced in vertical height and mounted to the hull transom in a manner that integrates the engine and its mount into the hull. Based on the representation of the deck above the engine appearing to be separated into a hatch, I infer that if the engine is tilted up, the rear deck that normally covers the engine is also raised.

The goal for PROJECT GHOST is to provide more usable space in the deck area with an unseen and integrated engine architecture. BRP expects this to result in a high impact on the market with from functionality and increased layout space. The GHOST engine architecture will result in

  • › Flexibility in layouts
  • Open rear access
  • Outboard completely out of sight

No time line for the introduction of the GHOST project engines was indicated in the presentation. The presentation is published on the BRP investor relations website and can be downloaded and viewed from:

http://ir.brp.com/static-files/4158acfd-80cd-482d-a657-29bd8420c6d8

Don SSDD
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Re: BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

Postby Don SSDD » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:20 am

Now that’s quite an innovation. Would also make the boats very quiet to occupants.
1986 Outrage 18 with 2001 Honda 130 HP
Former Owner 1991 Guardian 19 with 1994 Evinrude V4 140HP
Former owner 1987 Montauk with 1998 Mercury 90HP
Nova Scotia

Jefecinco
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Re: BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

Postby Jefecinco » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:52 am

If the concept is successful the other outboard brands that also make boats will follow. I expect to see a lot of these low profile designs.
Butch

jimh
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Re: BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

Postby jimh » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:13 am

Using a highly integrated outboard engine design with a particular boat will also mean that any replacement outboard engine would have to be of the same design.

There is some history for outboard engines of this type: the OMC Sea Drive engines of the 1980's.

dtmackey
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Re: BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

Postby dtmackey » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:01 pm

I saw this somewhere else as well and I'm seeing a market demand, but wondering how large and where?

Think about an outboard on a boat, when tilted up it drains all the water out. People in freshwater may flush, but I see little need. Salt water boaters that rack store, trailer or wet slip may be able to flush, but mooring kept boats this is not something that can be done.

What concerns me with this new design is the location of the powerhead in relation to the waterline. An outboard can drain down, this design cannot and water would remain in the powerhead water passages causing problems in salt water, brackish or fresh for boats left in the water, flushed or not since slip kept boats can be susceptible to stray dock powerline currents. This may not be a problem for the lake boater, but in the ocean, this is a no-go in my opinion. I compare this to inboard/outboard drives that are a constant maintenance nightmare in saltwater due to corrosion.

I'm not trying to be the debbie-downer and think there is a market for this and it does provide benefits, but looking at this from my angle of boating.

D-

K Albus
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Re: BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

Postby K Albus » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:04 pm

I recall that Pursuit and some other boat manufacturers (I believe Sea Ray may have been one) tried this concept about 10 years ago. See, e.g., https://www.boatingmag.com/boats/pursuit-sc-365i/ (scroll down for pictures of the hidden outboard motors). It doesn't seem to have caught on all that well.

K Albus
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Re: BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

Postby K Albus » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:07 pm

Here's an example of a Sea Ray with hidden outboard motors: https://www.boatingmag.com/boats/sea-ray-370-venture-0/ (again, scroll down).

jimh
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Re: BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

Postby jimh » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:12 am

Hi KEVIN--you have a good memory. I didn't recall either of those two applications of standard outboard engines to concealed engine placements. However, I think they are not good comparisons to the GHOST engine concept, for these reasons:

--the cited examples are using the manufacturers' standard outboard engines; there is nothing different about the engine--as far as can be seen--from their normal outboard engine. The engine has just been concealed in a well or covered up at the transom;

--the boats are much larger and heavier than the concept boats for the GHOST engine; those boats are big, heavy, 35-foot hulls. The GHOST concept seems to be aimed at monohull boats about 20-feet or less in length, or at pontoon catamaran hulls;

--the cited examples are very powerful 300-HP or larger engines; the GHOST engine concept looks like it would be much lower horsepower, maybe 150-HP at most;

--the GHOST engine does not look anything like the existing Evinrude G2 engines; the GHOST engine must be a radically shorter engine design, as its principal goal seem to be fitting onto the transom with no increase in height above the hull in order to create more stern deck space.

jimh
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Re: BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

Postby jimh » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:16 am

K Albus wrote:...[using big and hidden outboard engines to power 35-foot cabin boats] doesn't seem to have caught on all that well.


The hidden part of the cited example has very little presence in boats offered today, but the concept of putting very big 350-HP outboard engines as power for 35-foot cabin boats has definitely "caught on." Boston Whaler has quad 400-HP VERADO engines on the transom of their new 405 CONQUEST cabin boat.

I think trying to hide them would be is direct opposition to the owner's preference. If your boat has quad 400-HP engines, you probably want everyone to see them.

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Re: BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

Postby jimh » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:20 am

I emended my initial article to remove the suggestion that the GHOST concept engine is going to be an E-TEC. I don't think that E-TEC is actually mentioned in the investor presentation about the GHOST engine. (If you search the PDF document, the word "E-TEC" does not even appear; now what does that say, I might ask.)

I suspect that the GHOST concept is such a radical difference in boat propulsion that BRP will give it a new name, which is appropriate, because it will have to be a much different engine design.

As shown in the presentation, the GHOST concept is an answer to the perceived wants of the boater:
  • good value
  • good performance and handling
  • less engine maintenance
  • a swimming or casting platform at the stern
  • more usable space on the boat

jimh
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Re: BRP Shows New Outboard Engine Integration Concept to Investors

Postby jimh » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:34 am

dtmackey wrote:...I'm not trying to be the debbie-downer and think there is a market for this and it does provide benefits, but looking at this from my angle of boating.

I have similar thoughts. I am not sure the GHOST engine concept is going to hit a home run with long-time outboard engine boaters. We've got our own prejudices and preferences developed over many miles and many years.

I think the GHOST engine concept might be more accepted by a new boater, someone who has not owned a boat before. Imagine you've never really looked into buying your own boat in the 17 to 20-foot range. You look at two boats. One has a big outboard hanging on the transom with all sorts of rigging, hoses, and cables in view. The other has a nice flat stern deck you can use as a swim platform, and the engine is mostly out of sight. Looking at the two boats without prior boating experience, the GHOST concept engine boat probably will look more attractive.

I believe in general the boating industry need to attract new boaters. Something like the GHOST engine concept may be a way to do that.