New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

A conversation among Whalers
FL21WAC
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New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby FL21WAC » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:43 pm

Hi all. I have just purchased a 1991 21 Walkaround, which I believe to be in good original condition. Here were two prior owners. The boat was kept on a trailer, although bottom painted. The boat has no engine.

I intend to source a Yamaha Ox66 225 or 250 because the boat is already rigged for a Yamaha engine.

Short list:
    --Replace scuppers and thru hulls
    --Fit new power
    --Tidy up wiring

I have been a longtime lurker here, without occasion to post; however I would like to thank you all for the body of knowledge this forum represents.
1991 21 Walkaround, 2001 Yamaha 250 OX66
1987 Outrage 18 [project]

biggiefl
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Re: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby biggiefl » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:04 pm

You might want to reconsider the Yamaha Ox66, as they will burn some serious fuel.

The HPDI 250 or 300 have a lot of problems, so make sure maintained.

A 200 is a great engine.

I would look for a F225 or F300 four-stroke-power-cycle model. If pre 2007, make sure exhaust midsection was upgraded or the engine was a fresh water engine.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

jimh
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Re: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby jimh » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:28 pm

The c.1991 21 WALKAROUND is a great small cabin boat. Our friends Steve and Carolyn had one, with a 200-HP Yamaha two-stroke-power-cycle engine. Based on Steve's comments, the 200-HP Yamaha was a bit light on power when the boat was heavily loaded. Re-powering with a 250-HP might be advisable if you plan to carry a lot of fuel and gear aboard in normal use.

The Yamaha Ox66 engines were somewhat unique. They had a closed-loop fuel metering system. By that I mean they had an exhaust gas sensor of some type that gave the fuel controller feedback. Most other outboard engines of that era that advertised "electronic fuel injection" just had very simple, open loop, no feedback manifold fuel metering often using just one electrically control fuel sprayer.

Any Yamaha Ox66 would be quite an old engine by 2019. I don't think they have been sold new in the USA for many years.

The 250-HP Ox66 seemed to be quite strong. I saw a fellow running one on a big REVENGE 25 boat with a added fiberglass cockpit top. The 250-HP seemed to be able to push that boat quite nicely. It would be a very strong engine on the 21 WALKAROUND.

I think the 21 WALKAROUND hull has a deeper v-hull with more deadrise at the transom than the more classic-era hulls from Bob Dougherty's designs.

FL21WAC
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Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:57 am
Location: North Florida

Re: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby FL21WAC » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:17 am

biggiefl wrote:You might want to reconsider the OX66 as they will burn some serious fuel. The HPDI 250 & 300 have a lot of problems so make sure maintained, etc, 200 is a great engine. i would look for a 225-300 4 stroke. If earlier models(pre 07) make sure exhaust midsection was upgraded or is a fresh water engine.


Thank you; that is good advice. I debate the two-stroke versus four-stroke power-cycle engine configuration.

I am so familiar with DIY maintenance for the Yamaha two-stroke-power-cycle engines.

But my admiral and kids like the noise level of the four-stroke-power-cycle engines.
1991 21 Walkaround, 2001 Yamaha 250 OX66
1987 Outrage 18 [project]

jimh
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Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby jimh » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:08 am

Considering that a new four-stroke-power-cycle Yamaha F250 engine is going to cost about $25,000, I hope your wife and children appreciate the cost of the apparent reduction in noise.

biggiefl
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Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby biggiefl » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:08 am

I personally would never buy a conventional 2 stroke larger than 15hp. I am not a huge fan of DI 2 strokes as they are not as quiet as a 4 stroke, had early reliability problems, but have that 2 stroke holeshot. I am debating a 4 stroke vs HPDI as I plan to repower my 18 Outrage with a nice used engine. I too am rigged for Yamaha so leaning towards that direction but if I can find the right Suzuki, game on.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

jimh
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Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby jimh » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:02 pm

Re doing the routine maintenance on an outboard engine yourself:

With modern outboard engines there is not much routine maintenance. For example, I have a 2010 Evinrude E-TEC. The spark plugs last at least five years. The gear case oil lasts five years. The water pump impeller lasts five years. The engine winterizes itself with a button push. There is no lubricating oil sump to empty and refill every year. There is no oil filter to remove and replace every year. There are no carburetors with linkage to tinker with. There is really nothing much to do to keep it running on an annual basis.

If you want an engine to tinker with, then get a used two-stroke-power-cycle Yamaha engine--but get one from freshwater use.

Acseatsri
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Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby Acseatsri » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:24 am

The 21 [Walkaround] is a very stern-heavy boat, so weight should be kept to a minimum. Most came rigged with a 175-HP that weighed about 380-lbs. A 250-HP will push it to just under 50-MPH.

With a 150-HP the boat speed will be 37 or 38-MPH.

On mine I had both a 150-HP and a 250-HP. The 250 was too heavy. You want 12 x 12 trim tabs.

HMG
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Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby HMG » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:51 am

I owned a 1991 21 [Walkaround] for many years. The boat was originally rigged with a Johnson 200-HP, and I believe that engine weighed 480 lbs.

I later re-powered with a E-TEC 225 at 530 lbs. I felt the boat with the 225-HP was the proper power and that the extra weight of the E-TEC was not noticeable--seemingly zero change to the static trim.

The [21 Walkaround] can ride a stern heavy--especially when loaded up with fuel. Trim tabs are recommended. I had installed M120 Bennett 10 x 12 Sport Tabs on mine.

The 21 Walkaround is a great boat. Congratulations on the purchase, and good luck with it.

FL21WAC
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Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby FL21WAC » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:33 am

Thank you all for the comments; here is a picture just after arriving home.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/idjFyqH5RxotcP7p7
1991 21 Walkaround, 2001 Yamaha 250 OX66
1987 Outrage 18 [project]

FL21WAC
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:57 am
Location: North Florida

Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby FL21WAC » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:59 am

Regarding the repower; I have decided to broaden my search from just Yamaha options, to also include Evinrude E-TEC options.

Factors and thoughts which influence my search:
  1. I am a boater-on-a-budget. New or two- or three-years old is not an option for me. Too many 529 savings plans to fund;
  2. I am located in Florida, the used market is large (albeit salty) and used prices are good; especially this (December) time of year.
  3. Yamaha, two-stroke engine market analysis: after carefully reviewing the used outboard market, statewide for Yamaha offerings. I believe that the two-stroke offerings are slightly overpriced (OXx66 engines in 200/225/250 are going for around $4,000) for what are now 15-year-old or older motors that likely havespent their entire lives in a saltwater environment.
  4. Yamaha, 4 stroke market analysis: 4S 200/225/250s in my price range are primarily 2006 and earlier with 1000 hours and up.
  5. Evinrude E-TEC offerings are (from my research) actually maybe a little undervalued on the used market. 200-HP and 250-HP E-TEC engines (with rigging) can be had in the $3,000 to $5,000 range, with service history and less than 1,000 hours.

I would appreciate any comments or suggestions re my approach, and particularly with regard to a particular outboard engine's fitness for use on a 21 Walkaround.
1991 21 Walkaround, 2001 Yamaha 250 OX66
1987 Outrage 18 [project]

Acseatsri
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:46 am

Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby Acseatsri » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:06 pm

Just my opinion from my and about 7 other owners experiences and an Etec mechanic, but Etecs with more than 600 hours are ticking time bombs. I'm the only one in the group that made it to 1000 hrs (1100 actually) before grenading. Most blew in less than 800 hours with 3 failures at less than 700 hours. Be especially wary of pre-2008 motors before they doubled up on the oil lines.
Also be aware that the older gearcases prior to the M2 were trouble-prone. In addition to my friends' powerheads blowing at 600 and 680 hours on 2007 250's, also blew 3 gearcases before swapping out to M2's.
There's a reason they sell for less.

I see a lot of Yamaha's at Boats Inc (a marina that has a dock 1/4 mile long and lined with Grady's with twin 150's right up to triple 350's, mostly offshore fishermen) with well over 3000 hours and still going strong. I'd feel more comfortable about buying a used Yamaha 4 stroke with 3000 hours than I would an Etec with 500 hours.

jimh
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Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby jimh » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:28 pm

Re E-TEC: my opinion based on my own experience is that 200 to 250-HP E-TEC legacy engines that are now about 10-years old, that is, model year 2010 engines, have excellent reliability and durability. However, I would never sell my 2010 E-TEC 225 (which has about 600-hours, almost exclusively freshwater for 99-percent of those hours) with its modern remote electronic shift and throttle ICON EST controls for $3,000.

Correspondingly, I would not buy a 2005 E-TEC run in saltwater for 15-years, even if it were only $3,000--but I might have more money to lavish on my boat since I am at a point in my old-age where I can spend a few bucks on myself and my own fun.

If you want some factual data about changes in legacy E-TEC engines by model year, see my article on that topic:

E-TEC Model Year Changes
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... anges.html

ASIDE: I did sell my 1992 Evinrude 225-HP classic six-carburetor engine in perfect condition (with about 600-hours freshwater use) for about $3,800 about ten years ago when it was 17-years old. I believe the buyer of that engine is still running it and has had no major problems.

conch
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Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby conch » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:40 am

Here are a pair of Ox 66 Yamaha engine with rigging located in Delaware. Listed on the boating site THT.

Selling pair of YAMAHA V225 Saltwater Series 11 0X66 fuel injected
they are scheduled to be removed from boat Dec 16, These motors
have 500hrs on them and are running, all harnesses,switches,gauges,
props,steering rams,throttle cables and controls (COMPLETE).$3500.
609-276-2003


Chuck

FL21WAC
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Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:57 am
Location: North Florida

Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby FL21WAC » Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:15 pm

Thank you; I wish I was closer to Delaware. Located in Fla. The search for a good used engine continues.
1991 21 Walkaround, 2001 Yamaha 250 OX66
1987 Outrage 18 [project]

biggiefl
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Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby biggiefl » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:55 am

Finding an engine in Florida is probably the easiest place to do so--cheaply. Craigslist and boat trader are your best avenues. Stay away from the 250-HP and 300-HP HPDI engines; they have major problems.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

FL21WAC
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:57 am
Location: North Florida

Re: New purchase: 1991 Walkaround 21

Postby FL21WAC » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:49 pm

Thank you all for the input. I ended up taking a chance on a 2001 Yamaha 250 Ox66 EFI outboard. As previously stated, my boating budget does not allow for a newer engine. After much research and careful conversations with my mechanic. I took a calculated risk and bought a low-hour, very clean example of the two-stroke-power-cycle Yamaha engine. The engine was the recipient of a factory-new powerhead and a rebuilt lower unit (and all work with receipts from a large Yamaha dealer in Tampa). The owner then put 55-hours on the engine, then four-years-ago he passed away. The engine sat in storage for the last four years; then I bought it. After a careful visual inspection, compression test, and an offering of incense to Poseidon, I bought the engine, gauges, controls, steering, and oil tank, and I hauled it home.

I performed the following service items:
    -replaced all fuel lines
    -replaced all fuel filters
    -replaced 3 low pressure fuel pumps + one high pressure pump
    -cleaned VST tank
    -replaced O2 sensor
    -pulled fuel injectors, professionally pressure tested and renewed
    -new thermostats
    -new water pump kit
    -lower unit oil

After all of the above, it started on the first crank and runs very smoothly in a tank in my driveway. In a few weeks, I will take the first sea trial and shakedown for the new boat.

My plan is to run this engine for two seasons, then move up to a newer Yamaha four-stroke-power-cycle engine.

Thank you all for the input.
1991 21 Walkaround, 2001 Yamaha 250 OX66
1987 Outrage 18 [project]