USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

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jimh
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USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby jimh » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:57 pm

A USCG response boat overturned in the Atlantic Ocean during a rescue attempt on February 25, 2016. The Coast Guard boat was attempting to assist in the rescue of the crew of the fishing vessel CAROLINA QUEEN III, which had become stranded on the beach near the Rockaway peninsula in the New York City burough of Queens. The five Coast Guard crew were able to escape the capsized boat and swim ashore. News reports described the wave height during this time as ten-feet or more.
USCGboatCapsize02_25_2016.jpg
Capsized USCG 25-foot boat
USCGboatCapsize02_25_2016.jpg (20.13 KiB) Viewed 21034 times


The capsized boat appears to be a Response Boat-Small class boat. These boats were first acquired by the USCG in 2002 and were expected to have a ten-year lifespan. The acquisition process was somewhat rushed by the exigencies of creating a standardized small boat for the USCG for port security and other functions following the terrorist attacks of 9-11-2001.

In 2010 the USCG held competitive bids for a replacement Response Boat-Small design, resulting in a different design and different manufacturer getting the new contract award. Metal Shark Boats of Jeanerette, Louisiana and their DEFIANT 28 boat were awarded the contract for the new RB-S-II procurement, which may reach 500 boats.

Image

During the acquisition of the new Response Boat-Small class, the request for proposal HSCG23-10-R-MOT005 contained the following requirements:

Emergency Egress, section 070-3.4.12:

Emergency Egress: During the life of RB-S fleet, there is a high likelihood that one or more boats will capsize due to unexpected environmental conditions, interaction with other vessels, hostile intent of others, or human error. The RB-S shall have egress means for all crew in the crew space to quickly and safely exit the crew space. In addition, air pockets that are available in the inverted position are highly desired to allow the crew extra time in performing egress.


Crew egress from a capsized boat was apparently an important consideration for the new RB-S-II boats. The closed cabin of the older RB-S boats was probably deemed to create a risk for the crew in the event of a capsize.

It is somwhat difficult to tell from the image of the capsized boat which model RB-S boat was involved. The (below) image appears to me to show a boat that is more like the older c.2002 Defender class RB-S boats, not the newer RB-S-II class boats.

uscgCapsizeSternView.jpg
Capsized USCG 25-foot boat stern view
uscgCapsizeSternView.jpg (17.14 KiB) Viewed 21009 times

jimh
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby jimh » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:37 pm

UPDATE: The USCG boat that capsized was from USCG Station Jones Beach and was USCG 25720. All the boat crew are in good condition. The boat is definitely a RB-S Defender class boat. Here is a picture of the boat from the Station Jones Beach webpage:

25720smaller.jpg
USCG Boat 25729 Station Jones Beach
25720smaller.jpg (29.21 KiB) Viewed 21001 times

A larger image is available.

Note that the newer RB-S-II boats look like their numbering scheme will be 29nnnn, so it will be easy to distinguish the two models from the hull designation number.

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Re: USCG 25-foot Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby ConB » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:45 pm

Here is a news clip.

http://abc7ny.com/news/crew-rescued-after-fishing-boat-runs-aground-off-rockaway-beach/1218047/

The pictures of the safe boat upside down in flat calm water is not what conditions were like when the crew flipped.

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jimh
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby jimh » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:49 pm

I am not sure which means of leaving the stranded fishing boat would have been more scary:

--getting hoisted into a helo, or

--trying to disembark into a small boat in rough seas and surf

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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby Oldslowandugly » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:16 pm

That pic of the submerged hull and the Nassau County PD boat sure looks like Debs Inlet, just West of the Atlantic Beach Bridge. That is my stomping grounds and I have seen that CG boat out on patrol before. Friendly guys, always wave back. I'm glad they are all safe.

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Phil T
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby Phil T » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 pm

It is clear the Response Boat-Small I and II are not appropriate for rough seas or breaking waves since it does not have the self-righting feature of the Response boat - Medium.

cf: http://www.uscg.mil/acquisition/rbm/pdf/RBM.pdf
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby porthole » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:25 pm

jimh wrote:
Image


Interesting tidbit. The Nassau County LEO's muscled their way in and took over the salvage of the Safeboat from the crew that was hired under a BOA contract with the US government. They did so under the guise of training and took the boat to their facility.

That particular boat was scheduled to be decommissioned in 3-4 weeks.

jimh wrote:Note that the newer RB-S-II boats look like their numbering scheme will be 29nnnn, so it will be easy to distinguish the two models from the hull designation number.


25xxx - 29xxx etc. The first 2 numbers are the boat size

In this picture the 25' boat is sitting alongside a 41UTB (41' utility boat)

Image

Phil T wrote:It is clear the Response Boat-Small I and II are not appropriate for rough seas or breaking waves since it does not have the self-righting feature of the Response boat - Medium.

cf: http://www.uscg.mil/acquisition/rbm/pdf/RBM.pdf


The 25 Safeboat has an operational sea state of 6'
"Weather Parameters: Winds: 25 kt & Seas: 6 feet"

http://www.uscg.mil/international/25ft.asp

The coxswain clearly violated USCG rules and I would not be surprised if he is lucky not to end up in confinement.
At the minimum most likely charged with destruction of government property, transferred and career ending as far as advancement.

It is a good thing they train in escaping from a turtled boat.
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby porthole » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:31 pm

The "Queen" will most likely be cut up on the beach.
Lots of damage from getting pounded in the surf.
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:19 am

Duane forgot these specifications of the 25-foot RB-S:

Operational Characteristics:
Speed: 40+ Knots
Cruising Range:175NM at 35 knots
Seas: Up to 4' for normal operations
Safe in seas 8-10'

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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby porthole » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:50 am

jimh wrote:Duane forgot these specifications of the 25-foot RB-S:

Operational Characteristics:
Speed: 40+ Knots
Cruising Range:175NM at 35 knots
Seas: Up to 4' for normal operations
Safe in seas 8-10'



I didn't forget them, the way out have it is out of context.
The USCG follows strict operational guidelines.
They don't go out if the conditions exceed the operational parameters, and in the case of this boat they are:
Maximum operating winds: 25 kts
Maximum operating seas: 6’ (no surf)

Both of those were exceeded (actually all 3 if you count the no surf separate). Crew size may come under consideration as well, the boat is rated at 4 crew (4 seats)

Not listed on the info page is the operational draft, which for that boat is 6'. So even if they successfully arrive on scene they still could not get close to the boat.
I'm surprised the commercial guys didn't just jump off the boat and wade in.

Here is a drone shot of the Carolina Queen III, some cheesey stuff mixed in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVRpEY-2C90

Some pics
https://tugster.wordpress.com/2016/02/26/astrand/
Thanks,
Duane
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby jimh » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:58 am

As fishing boats go, the CAROLINA QUEEN III looks like one of the more modern and better kept ones. It is going to take a lot of water at high-tide to get her afloat again.

The pictures from these amateur-operated camera drones are amazing.

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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby porthole » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:26 am

Ruptured fuel tank, engine broken off mount, Kort nozzle twisted around, failing bulkheads.
Good chance it will be cut up on the beach, which happens more often then one would think.
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Duane
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby porthole » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:03 pm

Those 25 Safe boats are an example, in my opinion, of some government waste. They [had a cost of a quarter-million-dollars or more] each when new, with an operational life span of about 10 years. There have been quite a few already taken out of service and re-purposed through the the government's re-utilization programs. They are nice boats, wouldn't mind having one to play with.

Our local PD got one after Sandy and were not happy with the way it looked. One of the side collars had been damaged and was removed. A brand new collar was on the boat (not installed) when they received it.

The [local police department] didn't like [the boat they got], [they] whined a little, and [they] were told to come up pick out another one.

I got that job and got to see Sault Ste. Marie in the dead of winter, pick out the 25 of my choice and bring it home.

ASIDE on a completely new topic: Why would anyone want to live [in Sault Ste. Marie] in the dead of winter is beyond me. Sub-zero temps, 10 to 15-foot high [snow] drifts on every corner.
Thanks,
Duane
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby Oldslowandugly » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:00 pm

Porthole- that drone footage is amazing! I was right, that's B59 st and the apartment buildings in the backround are B19st, the mouth of Debs Inlet. They almost made it home, too bad they lost power so close. I've fished that area over 40 years. Don't worry about the ship- the local scavengers will see she gets stripped and carried away!

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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby porthole » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:23 pm

Another view of the 25 with one of my buddies towing it in, before they were intercepted by Nassau County
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USCG_25_Millers.jpg
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Thanks,
Duane
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby jimh » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:29 am

Maybe STATION JONES BEACH will get a new 29-foot Response Boat to replace 25720. They're even more expensive-- $342,000 in the initial contract procurement.

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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby Oldslowandugly » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:07 am

This whole situation is odd. The boat is US property. There is an old CG station right there on Debs Inlet with a ramp. The CG could have easily recovered the boat and trailered it back to the JB station. As for Nassau County, if you look behind the bridge pilings you will see the Atlantic Beach Fire and Rescue Station. They use a similar boat and have a dock with davits that could have righted the CG boat with ease. You can almost imagine that Nassau PD laid in wait just inside the County border (the bridge) to take charge. I guess business is slow this time of year.

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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby Hoosier » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:12 am

Re comments about Saul Ste Marie: We've been going there, in every season, for 30 years. We are on our second cabin near there in the UP. The Soo is a nice town with a lot of activity and government jobs. There is Lake Superior State University, US Army Corps of Engineers who run the locks, a HUGE detachment on Border Patrol and US Customs. The Soo is the only border crossing for 250 miles in any direction. There are sport activities in every season, Winter: Snow Machines, I know people in Fort Wayne who regularly go up to the Soo every winter. Spring: turkey season, steelhead, smelt and ORV trails. Summer is centered on fishing for four varieties of salmon, and the Saint Mary's River is Walleye heaven. Fall is hunting for deer and bear. Having grown up in NJ I can't imagine why anyone would want to live in the NYC area......
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby ConB » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:13 pm

Hoosier, quit trying to sell northern Michigan. There are too many people Up North as it is.

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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby Binkster » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:41 pm

Maybe the Michigan transplants that have relocated to Florida
will go back home.
rich

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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby porthole » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:51 pm

Hoosier wrote:Re comments about Saul Ste Marie: We've been going there, in every season, for 30 years. We are on our second cabin near there in the UP. The Soo is a nice town with a lot of activity and government jobs. There is Lake Superior State University, US Army Corps of Engineers who run the locks, a HUGE detachment on Border Patrol and US Customs. The Soo is the only border crossing for 250 miles in any direction. There are sport activities in every season, Winter: Snow Machines, I know people in Fort Wayne who regularly go up to the Soo every winter. Spring: turkey season, steelhead, smelt and ORV trails. Summer is centered on fishing for four varieties of salmon, and the Saint Mary's River is Walleye heaven. Fall is hunting for deer and bear. Having grown up in NJ I can't imagine why anyone would want to live in the NYC area......


My comment was a bit tongue in cheek. When I went up there, the outside temp gauge in my truck was dropping almost as fast as the fuel gauge.
I don't like the cold anymore, and I really don't care much for Jersey as well.

(and the comment was "live" in the "dead of winter", not have a winter playground)
Thanks,
Duane
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Re: USCG Response Boat Capsizes During Rescue

Postby Oldslowandugly » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:41 pm

Not trying to hijack this thread but- "I can't imagine why anyone would want to live in the NYC area......" Here is my Grandson holding two Summer Flounder taken just the other side of that AB Bridge in the pictures. One is 22 inches and the other is 26 inches. Beer belly is not mine.Image