Hi all.I would like to add an auxiliary engine or "kicker" to my Guardian 19 for trolling (since my main motor--150 HP 2-stroke--is too smelly at trolling speeds) and to take me back to the dock if the main engine breaks down.
QUESTIONS
Q1: What horsepower should the auxiliary be?
I am considering a Yamaha F9.9 or a Tohatsu 9.9 EFI. I like the Tohatsu 9.9 since it is an EFI motor, but also love the Yamaha for its reputation for reliability.
Q2: The 9-HP engines weight about 100-lbs; are they too heavy for the transom?
Q3: How should the auxiliary engine be mounted?
The Guardian 19 has room on the transom to mount an auxiliary and no bracket would be needed. I may link the two engine together for steering.
Q4: What engine brand, type, and power are you using for an auxiliary?
Please share your stories.
Thank you very much
hskbvn
GUARDIAN 19 Auxiliary Engine
Re: Kicker for Boston Whaler 18 - 19 feet boats?
Tohatsu is the largest small-outboard maker in the world. They make all the smaller, under 40-HP engines for Mercury. I would look at the 8-HP High-Thrust, too.
You can tie them together to steer.
They are not too heavy for your transom.
The [GUARDIAN 19 transom] can handle 600 to 700-lbs without a problem.
You can tie them together to steer.
They are not too heavy for your transom.
The [GUARDIAN 19 transom] can handle 600 to 700-lbs without a problem.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).
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quickenberger
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:48 pm
Re: Kicker for Boston Whaler 18 - 19 feet boats?
A Mercury 9.9 on my SENTRY 19 pushed the boat to 6-MPH; a 9.9-HP is plenty for most areas as a secondary engine.
An auxiliary engine weight of 100-lbs didn't seem to affect the balance too much because of a battery placement. The auxiliary engine was mounted on the Port side. On the Starboard side I had trolling motor batterie; [this arrangement] balanced out the [lateral trim] if only I was aboard.
The auxiliary engine was mounted next to the main engine and [the steering tilllers were] tied together with a tie-rod that had a quick connect. I found I could trim the kicker motor up all the way with the main engine down, but I couldn't trim the main engine up all the way with the kicker engine down. I fabricated a tie-rod tube that had a jog in it and could articulate at each and also had full rotation. It ended up being a bit finicky though.
The boat was repowered with a E-TEC 150 G2 and the dealer moved the kicker over on a mounting bracket and used remote steering made by Panther for kicker steering.
I am unable to find images of the setup but if I come across them I'll post.
An auxiliary engine weight of 100-lbs didn't seem to affect the balance too much because of a battery placement. The auxiliary engine was mounted on the Port side. On the Starboard side I had trolling motor batterie; [this arrangement] balanced out the [lateral trim] if only I was aboard.
The auxiliary engine was mounted next to the main engine and [the steering tilllers were] tied together with a tie-rod that had a quick connect. I found I could trim the kicker motor up all the way with the main engine down, but I couldn't trim the main engine up all the way with the kicker engine down. I fabricated a tie-rod tube that had a jog in it and could articulate at each and also had full rotation. It ended up being a bit finicky though.
The boat was repowered with a E-TEC 150 G2 and the dealer moved the kicker over on a mounting bracket and used remote steering made by Panther for kicker steering.
I am unable to find images of the setup but if I come across them I'll post.
Re: GUARDIAN 19 Auxiliary Engine
The Yamaha with similar features as the Tohatsu, that is, electronic starter, power tilt and trim, 20-inch shaft, is about $1000 more expensive than the Tohatsu. On top of that, the new Tohatsu has EFI, so no messing with a choke in cold weather.
Q5: Between Yamaha and Tohatsu, which one would you choose?
Q5: Between Yamaha and Tohatsu, which one would you choose?
Re: Kicker for Boston Whaler 18 - 19 feet boats?
My local Porta Bote company carries Suzuki outboard engine, and the price for the 9.9-HP is even a little cheaper compared to the Tohatsu with the same features.
Re: GUARDIAN 19 Auxiliary Engine
There is an excellent article in the REFERENCE section that describes in detail with many illustrations the installation of an 8-HP Yamaha auxiliary engine on an OUTRAGE 22. You will find this article to be useful in your planning for your smaller 19-foot boat. See
Mounting a Yamaha T8 Four-Stroke Auxiliary
On a 1992 OUTRAGE 22 with Evinrude 225-HP Main Engine
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/yamahaT8Kicker.html
Consider how the auxiliary engine shift and throttle controls will be used. It is most convenient if the auxiliary engine shift and throttle controls are located remotely at the helm position. A simple way to do that is to install a dual-handle throttle control. This is demonstrated in the above article.
In order to use a dual-handle throttle control to control both main and auxiliary engine, the control action probably must be the same on both engines, so usually the engine brands are matching; if not matching, then at least the two engines should have the same sense of motion of the control cables so the operator is not confused.
If you have to use separate single-engine controls, the helm may become crowded with remote shift and throttle controls.
If the auxiliary has power trim and tilt, you will also need to bring those controls to the helm. You also will want some gauges for the auxiliary engine at the helm console. Of course, if the auxiliary engine has electric start, you need the ignition key switch at the helm.
You should give the helm layout of remote controls, ignition key switch, trim switches, and gauges for the auxiliary engine careful consideration before you make a choice of engine.
Of course, you want the main and auxiliary engine steering to be linked.
You also have to figure out how the auxiliary engine will be started electrically and what battery it will use. Most electric starting auxiliary engines provide battery charging output. You also have to consider how the battery charging current will be handled when the auxiliary engine is running.
CAUTION: as a general rule the charging outputs of two engines should not be connected in parallel and be trying to charge one battery.
I think there are many more considerations you should investigate before making a decision on what auxiliary engine to buy.
Regarding horsepower, there is really no need to go to 9.9-HP. As the linked article above describes, an 8-HP engine was very adequate for pushing a 22-foot boat. I don't see any need for a 9.9-HP on a 19-footer. Another consideration is the engine speed that the auxiliary will be running at when you are trolling. You don't want the auxiliary to running all day at 500-RPM. Running the auxiliary at a somewhat faster speed should be better, that is, it should run more smoothly and probably run will less vibration at a higher speed than it would at dead-slow idle speed--unless you want to troll at 10-MPH.
Another consideration you must resolve is the fuel system. It is not a good practice to connect two engines to the same fuel supply line and have only one of the engines running. If only one engine is running, the running engine may suck fuel out of the fuel system of the non-running engine, which could lead to air being sucked into the fuel system. Installation of fuel shut-off valves may be necessary. If the boat fuel tank has two fuel pick-up fittings, you may want to dedicate one fitting to the main engine and the second fitting to the second engine. There is also the question of fuel filtering, too.
To satisfy your requirement that the auxiliary engine be a "get-home" engine, the installation of the auxiliary engine should be isolated as much as possible from the main engine. Having an isolated fuel tank and isolated starting battery may be very useful in the event of a fuel problem or battery problem with the main engine.
Mounting a Yamaha T8 Four-Stroke Auxiliary
On a 1992 OUTRAGE 22 with Evinrude 225-HP Main Engine
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/yamahaT8Kicker.html
Consider how the auxiliary engine shift and throttle controls will be used. It is most convenient if the auxiliary engine shift and throttle controls are located remotely at the helm position. A simple way to do that is to install a dual-handle throttle control. This is demonstrated in the above article.
In order to use a dual-handle throttle control to control both main and auxiliary engine, the control action probably must be the same on both engines, so usually the engine brands are matching; if not matching, then at least the two engines should have the same sense of motion of the control cables so the operator is not confused.
If you have to use separate single-engine controls, the helm may become crowded with remote shift and throttle controls.
If the auxiliary has power trim and tilt, you will also need to bring those controls to the helm. You also will want some gauges for the auxiliary engine at the helm console. Of course, if the auxiliary engine has electric start, you need the ignition key switch at the helm.
You should give the helm layout of remote controls, ignition key switch, trim switches, and gauges for the auxiliary engine careful consideration before you make a choice of engine.
Of course, you want the main and auxiliary engine steering to be linked.
You also have to figure out how the auxiliary engine will be started electrically and what battery it will use. Most electric starting auxiliary engines provide battery charging output. You also have to consider how the battery charging current will be handled when the auxiliary engine is running.
CAUTION: as a general rule the charging outputs of two engines should not be connected in parallel and be trying to charge one battery.
I think there are many more considerations you should investigate before making a decision on what auxiliary engine to buy.
Regarding horsepower, there is really no need to go to 9.9-HP. As the linked article above describes, an 8-HP engine was very adequate for pushing a 22-foot boat. I don't see any need for a 9.9-HP on a 19-footer. Another consideration is the engine speed that the auxiliary will be running at when you are trolling. You don't want the auxiliary to running all day at 500-RPM. Running the auxiliary at a somewhat faster speed should be better, that is, it should run more smoothly and probably run will less vibration at a higher speed than it would at dead-slow idle speed--unless you want to troll at 10-MPH.
Another consideration you must resolve is the fuel system. It is not a good practice to connect two engines to the same fuel supply line and have only one of the engines running. If only one engine is running, the running engine may suck fuel out of the fuel system of the non-running engine, which could lead to air being sucked into the fuel system. Installation of fuel shut-off valves may be necessary. If the boat fuel tank has two fuel pick-up fittings, you may want to dedicate one fitting to the main engine and the second fitting to the second engine. There is also the question of fuel filtering, too.
To satisfy your requirement that the auxiliary engine be a "get-home" engine, the installation of the auxiliary engine should be isolated as much as possible from the main engine. Having an isolated fuel tank and isolated starting battery may be very useful in the event of a fuel problem or battery problem with the main engine.
Re: GUARDIAN 19 Auxiliary Engine
Let this thread remain on the topic of transom-mounted gasoline auxiliary engines for a GUARDIAN 19.
If the OP wants to discuss installation of bow-mounted battery-operated electrical motors, he will please start a new thread on that topic so this thread does not become a jumble of comments on two different topics.
If the OP wants to discuss installation of bow-mounted battery-operated electrical motors, he will please start a new thread on that topic so this thread does not become a jumble of comments on two different topics.
Re: GUARDIAN 19 Auxiliary Engine
Thank you so much for your insight advice Jim. A lot of useful info on the link you provided.
I may not need 9.9 but that's the smallest outboards that have EFI. And most of the time, the 9.9 and 8 use the same block so the weight saving is not much.
I may not need 9.9 but that's the smallest outboards that have EFI. And most of the time, the 9.9 and 8 use the same block so the weight saving is not much.
Re: GUARDIAN 19 Auxiliary Engine
The simplest installation of an auxiliary engine would be:
--get a 5-HP engine with pull starting; this way you eliminate the electric start, the second battery, the battery charging, and all the electrical complications; this makes the auxiliary able to run even if all the batteries on the boat are drained of charge;
--run the auxiliary off its own 6-gallon fuel tank; this way you eliminate all the fuel system problems, and you have completely isolated the auxiliary engine fuel system from the main engine fuel system; this makes the auxiliary able to run even if there is a big problem in the main tank;
--for steering, just set the tiller tension to high on the auxiliary, leave it set for straight-ahead, and use the main engine as a rudder to steer; this should be adequate for steering control while trolling; if there is a problem with steering with the main, then the auxiliary can be steering instead;
--with no steering linkage, you can just manually tilt up the auxiliary when it is not in use; you really don't need to worry about trim; set the trim manually to optimum when the engine is running and down.
A pull-start small engine that is kept in good tune, is provided with good fuel, and is properly primed should start on the first or second pull. You can save a lot of money with this approach. And you can keep everything very simple. We're talking about a 19-foot boat going fishing, not a 70-foot expedition yacht.
--get a 5-HP engine with pull starting; this way you eliminate the electric start, the second battery, the battery charging, and all the electrical complications; this makes the auxiliary able to run even if all the batteries on the boat are drained of charge;
--run the auxiliary off its own 6-gallon fuel tank; this way you eliminate all the fuel system problems, and you have completely isolated the auxiliary engine fuel system from the main engine fuel system; this makes the auxiliary able to run even if there is a big problem in the main tank;
--for steering, just set the tiller tension to high on the auxiliary, leave it set for straight-ahead, and use the main engine as a rudder to steer; this should be adequate for steering control while trolling; if there is a problem with steering with the main, then the auxiliary can be steering instead;
--with no steering linkage, you can just manually tilt up the auxiliary when it is not in use; you really don't need to worry about trim; set the trim manually to optimum when the engine is running and down.
A pull-start small engine that is kept in good tune, is provided with good fuel, and is properly primed should start on the first or second pull. You can save a lot of money with this approach. And you can keep everything very simple. We're talking about a 19-foot boat going fishing, not a 70-foot expedition yacht.
Re: GUARDIAN 19 Auxiliary Engine
Why on earth would you get PTnT on a kicker?
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).