Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

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Roach
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Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby Roach » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:12 pm

Help identify a boat. The [state] title [from some unidentified state] says [the unidentified boat] is a 1968 Boston Whaler.

A USCG tag says [the unidentified boat] is a 15-foot 3-inch Boston Whaler.

I cannot find information that [Boston Whaler] made a 15-foot 3-inch boat in 1968,.

[Give me information about] the [unidentified boat].

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:47 pm

No help can be given to positively identify the boat on the basis of the information presented.

Give the STENCIL NUMBER of the boat; all Boston Whaler boats have these numbers.

Give the Federal Hull Identification Number of the boat, if it has one.

Give the actual length overall of the boat as measured by you.

Roach
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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby Roach » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:24 pm

I am seeking guidance if there was a Boston Whaler made in 1968 in a 15' 3", and if the title is correct on the year, and what the interior may have looked like. The hull has been painted and new HIN numbers have been added to make legal. I have spoke with Boston Whaler and without the Hull number they cant tell me anything, including if it is in fact a Boston Whaler, or if they made a 15' 3" model that year without that hull number.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:22 am

The posts to this thread seem to repeat the same information. I will continue that trend:

Give the STENCIL NUMBER of the boat; all Boston Whaler boats have these numbers.

Give the Federal Hull Identification Number of the boat, if it has one. Were this boat to actually be a 1968 boat, it would not have a Federal Hull Identification Number because those numbers and the numbering scheme were not invented until 1972.

Give the actual length of the boat under discussion as measured by you.

Here is the answer to the question I have inferred you may have:

The production of 15-foot 3-inch length hulls by Boston Whaler began in 1975, but most boats were given 1976 model year designation. Production continued to at least 1990, and possibly beyond.

In the REFERENCE section of the Boston Whaler section of CONTINUOUSWAVE, you can find information on the production epoch of many classic Boston Whaler boats. The REFERENCE section is located at

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/

There you will find an index listing of all articles. In the index under the heading SPECIFICATIONS and under the heading ALL 9-31 FOOT HULLS you will find a link with hypertext DIMENSIONS AND PRODUCTION HISTORY. If you click on that hypertext you will be taken to the article DIMENSIONS AND PRODUCTION INFORMATION. The article's URL is http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/specifications.html

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby biggiefl » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:07 am

A 15' 3" boat was never made in 1968. The 15' as Jim stated came out for the 1975 model year through the mid or late 1990's. Since the boat has been painted which would cover the stencil in the rear splashwell, look in the anchor locker in the bow for any identification. Lastly, post a picture and we can at least tell you it's a Whaler.
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Postby jimh » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:20 pm

Questions about the age of a Boston Whaler boat hull are frequently asked. There is an answer in the section called FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS in the REFERENCE section. In the REFERNCE INDEX under the heading BOSTON WHALER BOATS and under the subheading FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS there is hypertext FAQ that links to the more than dozen questions and answers that are frequently asked. The first frequently-asked question that is answered is "How Old is My Whaler?", because it is and remains the most frequently asked question about old Boston Whaler boats.

Q1: How Old Is My Whaler?

See the answer at

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q1

Roach
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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby Roach » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:26 pm

15.1a.jpg
Fig. 1. The 15-foot 2-inch hull under discussion. The damage to the hull is not really there. The photo was altered to obscure the registration number. See Fig. 2 for a correct view of the hull with the registration number not blocked out.
15.1a.jpg (11.31 KiB) Viewed 7814 times


15.2a.jpg
Fig. 2. The 15-foot 2-inch hull under discussion.
15.2a.jpg (17.62 KiB) Viewed 7814 times


The length measured by me is 15-feet 2-inches.

I have looked in the anchor locker and the splash well [but found no stencil number].

I will be sanding [the anchor locker and splash well] to see if I can reveal a [stencil number].

Thank you for the links to the REFERENCE section.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:53 pm

A Boston Whaler 15-foot hull has a very unique transom arrangement.

Compare the transom on the boat under discussion to the transom of Boston Whaler 15-footer, as seen below:

transomSport15.jpg
Fig. 3. The unusual transom of a SPORT 15 hull. Note how the transom height is cut down in a notch, and the plane of the center portion of the transom is pushed back several inches from the plane of the outer portions of the transom.
transomSport15.jpg (27.8 KiB) Viewed 7812 times


Image
Fig. 4. Transom of SPORT 15.

Image
Fig. 5. Transom of another model based on 15-foot hull showing unusual transom design.


If the boat under discussion has an identical transom, the chances increase it was a Boston Whaler product.

Roach
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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby Roach » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:06 pm

The hull seems to have the unique transom associated with a 15-foot Boston Whaler:

unknownTransom.jpg
Fig. 6. Transom of unknown boat.
unknownTransom.jpg (32.13 KiB) Viewed 7802 times

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:17 pm

Based mostly on that view of the transom, I think the boat under discussion was made by Boston Whaler. Nobody making a copy would have gone to the effort to make the very unusual transom.

I suggest you carefully inspect the inboard face of the transom under the engine mounting area for what may be an original stencil number that has been covered by paint. As the FAQ mentions, a stencil number for a 15-foot hull began with the series 5Axxxxx where xxxx is composed of numerals. I had a 1976 model year 15-footer with stencil number 5A00321. You can make a rough judgement of when the boat was made from that data point.

If the authenticity of the boat as a Boston Whaler boat can be established, more restoration may be worth the considerable effort required to accomplish.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:18 pm

Show a close-up image of that metal tag on the port side of the transom near top. It should have some embossed letters still visible. If that is the Federal HIN, then the boat could not be a 1968 boat because there were no Federal HIN requirements.

If the boat is really a Boston Whaler 15-footer, than it would have needed a Federal HIN. Let's see that metal tag and the numbers and letters still visible on it.

Your length measurement is off by 1-inch because the boat lacks the rub rail at bow. The beam is probably 2-inches off; it should be 5-feet 8-inches. You might measure 5-feet 6-inches due to no rub rails.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby biggiefl » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:09 pm

Definitely a 15' Whaler. Factory HIN would be on starboard side, not port I believe. There usually is another in the anchor locker. The stencil would be where Jim said, a couple inches above the drain holes in the center. Lightly sand and you will find it. That boat is really rough but does mean it is worthless. The old 40 mercury might be however.
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Phil T
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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby Phil T » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:15 am

Based on Fig 6, above, I will proffer the boat is not a Boston Whaler, rather a look-alike or splashed version.

I base this on the lack of moulded-in "steps" just before the bow area and the HIN plate on the opposite side of where it would be if an authentic Boston Whaler.
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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby biggiefl » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:25 am

Look at figure 2 Phil, you will see the steps. The HIN being on the left means it is probably a state plate, not OEM not to mention it is the wrong size.
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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:02 pm

When someone makes a copy of a hull, they usually only copy the hull's exterior form, using the hull itself as the male-gender plug onto which a new mold is laid-up. The best way to spot fake hulls is in the details of the cockpit and interior, and splash wells, which usually are NOT molded from a plug pulled off the Boston Whaler boat because they that would be complicated and difficult, compared with the exterior hull form.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:06 pm

I don't understand why the originator of the thread is being cagey about the HIN tag data. Is it a secret?

The reason for inquiring about the HIN is to help identify the boat, which is a corollary purpose of this discussion. If information about the boat is not going to be given, identification can't be made on the basis of the HIN number. It is common that old metal tag HIN identification plates have worn off printed-on lettering and only the embossed letters remain.

Also the location of the metal HIN tag has been reported to be on Port side of the transom on some boats. How or why there was variation between Port and Starboard side is unknown to me.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby El Rollo » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:39 pm

Sure looks like a 15 to me. If it's a 'splashed' copy somebody went to some great lengths to copy it.

I'd be willing to bet a few bucks that it is in fact a Boston Whaler.

The owner may be "cagey" about the hull ID# because the boat may have been stolen at one time.
Perhaps there was something a little shifty in the boat's history regarding ownership and registration.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby ConB » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:55 pm

I was looking over a mid-1980's Outrage 18 and the HIN tag was on the port side.

I don’t remember all the details but hardware and console didn’t match the year in my mind.

The thought came to me that maybe Boston Whaler put warrantied hulls HIN tags on the port side for some reason. Just my guess.

Con
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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:34 pm

El Rollo wrote:Sure looks like a 15 to me. If it's a 'splashed' copy somebody went to some great lengths to copy it.

You make a good point. If someone went to the considerable effort to make new molds using a Boston Whaler 15-foot hull as the plug, they certainly would have done so with the intention of making more than one counterfeit splashed hull. As far as I can recall, there has never been any report of a counterfeit 15-foot hull.

It is far more likely that the boat under discussion has some very odd history leading to the deplorable state it is now in, but at one time was a real Boston Whaler boat.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby Roach » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:59 pm

The metal tag on the port side is a state ID. I think [this tag was needed in] order to register the boat.

I looked up [the still undisclosed metal tag number in some unspecified manner] and [the result] came back as a homemade boat from Montana.

Old hulls never had a HIN.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:34 am

Roach wrote:Old hulls never had a HIN.


I don't think you see the inherent conflict in the declaration that this "old boat" never had a HIN. If the boat is really a 15-foot Boston Whaler hull, then it was made in 1975 or after. Boats made in 1972 or after were required to have a federal HIN number. You can't have it both ways.

A registration of the unknown boat as a "1968 Boston Whaler" does not hold water--to use an appropriate metaphor. Boston Whaler did not make the 15-foot 3-inch hull in 1968. The boat cannot be a "1968" Boston Whaler.

Roach wrote:I looked up [the still undisclosed metal tag number in some unspecified manner] and [the result] came back as a homemade boat from Montana.


Where do you look up state metal tags issued to homemade boats in Montana?

Generally federal regulations supercede state regulations, and I have never heard of a state requiring that metal tags be attached to the transom of a boat that identify the manufacturer and the location where the boat was made. State registrations are uniform and consist of affixing decals with a two letter alphabetic abbreviation for state, a four-digit number, and a two letter alphabetical suffix. The location of these decals is specified--and they don't go on the transom.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby biggiefl » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:38 am

I have seen state tags on transoms. These are metal tags like a Boston Whaler HIN but from the state, not the manufacturer. The state registration numbers as I believe you are referring to are not on the transom but on the sides like the ones covered up in Figure 1.

Two things happened with this boat and Roach might be aware or might notL

1) it was stolen at one time and the HIN tags removed. It might have been sold out of state and with a simple bill of sale it was re-titled in a different state, very easy to do unfortunately; or,

2) this boat was from a state that did not require titles (like NJ before 1987) and needed to be registered in a state that required a title and this is how they got around that mess.

Which ever it was, unless this boat was basically free and I knew the history behind it, I would steer clear of it. The last thing you need is to restore it and have the originally owner show up saying it was stolen and "poof" it's gone. Happened to a friend of mine.
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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby Roach » Sun May 03, 2020 3:50 pm

After a bit of sanding [a Boston Whaler STENCIL NUMBER] was found.

stencilNumber.jpg
Fig. 7. Stencil number 5A5214 on the hull of a 15-foot boat.
stencilNumber.jpg (1.79 KiB) Viewed 7556 times

[On the basis of the stencil number 5A5214 the boat appears to be a] c.1980 model, but I am not sure.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Sun May 03, 2020 5:58 pm

The discovery of a STENCIL NUMBER in a sequence that is appropriate for a Boston Whaler 15-foot hull, that is, a number beginning with 5A and followed by five digits, is indicative the boat was made by Boston Whaler.

What was your source of authority to establish the production date of the hull from the stencil number 5A5214 means c.1980?

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Sun May 03, 2020 6:05 pm

biggiefl wrote:I have seen state tags on transoms. These are metal tags like a Boston Whaler HIN but from the state, not the manufacturer.


Give the scheme used for a metal tag for a homemade boat made in Montana.

Where do you look up the scheme for a hull identification number created by a state authority?

Where are the federal MIC codes listed for homemade boats from Montana?

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby biggiefl » Mon May 04, 2020 10:24 am

That would probably be deciphered on the title Jim. I do not think the metal tag would say all that but the title may.
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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby Roach » Tue May 05, 2020 3:10 pm

Called Boston Whaler at 1 877 294 5645 and asked them the origins of this stencil number.

HIN number identifier online, just google search, beginning of HIN starts with MTZ

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Tue May 05, 2020 5:53 pm

Roach wrote:Called Boston Whaler at 1 877 294 5645 and asked them the origins of this stencil number.

What did you find out?

Roach wrote:HIN number identifier online, just google search...

You have never told us the HIN number. How are we supposed to search online for it? Your HIN number is not online. You cannot find it by searching GOOGLE.

Roach wrote:....beginning of HIN starts with MTZ

The "beginning of HIN" is known as the MIC or Manufacturer's Identity Code. This is explained clearly in the FAQ. See

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q2

The MIC of "MTZ" means "MONTANA HOMEMADE BOATS" and occurs in a state-issued HIN.

Now that have provided the MIC from the HIN, the mystery is over. The boat under discussion is formally and officially identified as a Montana home made boat.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby Roach » Fri May 08, 2020 6:12 pm

The Stencil number [5A5214 was identified by Boston Whaler customer support during a telephone conversation] as a Boston Whaler produced in January 1980. [Boston Whaler customer support] gave me the original HIN [they applied to the hull]. [I have a] new rabbit hole to jump into. [I have to discover] how to put the original [federal HIN used by Boston Whaler] back on [the boat that currently has a HIN identifying it as a homemade boat made in Montana].

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Sat May 09, 2020 9:55 am

Phil T wrote:...I will proffer the boat is not a Boston Whaler...I base this on ...the HIN plate on the opposite side of where it would be if an authentic Boston Whaler.


I came across some photographs of my 1976 SPORT 15. The federal HIN number was an embossed and pre-printed metal tag applied on the PORT side of the transom. I don't think there is a basis to assume that Boston Whaler NEVER put a HIN tag on the Port side of a transom.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Sat May 09, 2020 10:50 am

Roach wrote:The Stencil number [5A5214 was identified by Boston Whaler customer support during a telephone conversation] as a Boston Whaler produced in January 1980. [Boston Whaler customer support] gave me the original HIN [they applied to the hull]. [I have a] new rabbit hole to jump into. [I have to discover] how to put the original [federal HIN used by Boston Whaler] back on [the boat that currently has a HIN identifying it as a homemade boat made in Montana].


If you want to establish that there is a link to the original (undisclosed) HIN applied by Boston Whaler to a boat with stencil number 5A5214, you will probably need more evidence than your affirmation that you were told that in a telephone conversation. I recommend you ask Boston Whaler to send you something in the U.S. mail on their letterhead that states what you have said you were told in a telephone conversation. Coupling that document with a photograph of the revealed hull stencil number will be reasonable proof of the fact you wish to establish, that is, that the boat you have now which has been previously formally identified as a homemade boat from Montana is in fact a 1980 Boston Whaler 15-foot hull.

Also, do you have a legal title to the boat? The description on the legal title may have to be changed, too.

In what state do you want to register or title the boat?

You will have to work with the appropriate state agency. Some states are more strict than others, particularly states in which boat theft is very common, such as Florida and other southeast coastal states. The state regulatory agency you will deal with may have their own rules for what constitutes proper documentation.

Now that we have ended the identification of the boat, perhap you can begin a new thread when you have some information to report on your project to change all the documentation for the boat. This would be a good topic for a new thread.

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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby biggiefl » Mon May 11, 2020 9:48 am

You will need to get [the boat] re-titled if you [want to get the formal identification of the boat changed to be a Boston Whaler boat from a Homemade Boat from Montana].

You may also find out [the boat] was stolen. As I said above, [discovery that the boat was stolen prior to your ownership] could be the end of [your] ownership. And you better have a good paper trail for the police showing you did not steal [the boat].
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Re: Production Epoch for 15-foot 3-inch Hull

Postby jimh » Mon May 11, 2020 11:10 am

I have heard some people, usually people I have never met in person and who I only know from reading their posts on line and who seem to come from the deep South of the USA, use the expression "run it like you stole it." I was just thinking that phrase seems appropriate to describe the condition of the boat as pictured earlier in the thread, that is, it looks like the prior owner might have followed that dictum.

ASIDE: I don't personally know anyone who has stolen a boat. Actually, the only person I can think of who has admitted stealing a boat was the late William F. Buckley Jr. Mr. Buckley stole his own boat. Late one night, and arriving by a small dinghy, he removed his boat from the docks at a boat yard where he had commissioned some repairs to be made, and then he sailed his boat to another state. The boat yard's bill for the repair was, in Buckley's opinion, exorbitant. After he repossessed his own boat from the boat yard, he said the boat yard became more flexible in negotiation of a fair price to settle the boat yard's bill. I believe he recounted this event in one of his more than 50 books, possibly his great narrative of crossing the Atlantic by sailboat, "ATLANTIC HIGH: A CELEBRATION."