I may buy a 2012 210 MONTAUK powered with a made-in-2012 Mercury 200-HP VERADO FOURSTROKE engine. I am hoping [readers can give me a] a reliability check for this engine. Also, I hope [readers can give me] any [of their] experience with this boat and engine combination.
The 2012 210 MONTAUK boat would be used for water sports as well as fishing and cruising. The maximum rated power is 200-HP, and I am expecting good [acceleration from a standing start onto plane] and good performance.
Thanks in advance.
2012 210 Montauk, Verado 200
2012 210 Montauk, Verado 200
Nice boat. There are two versions: the Verado 200 and 200 Pro. Both would be admirable. See this performance report for comparison of the 150, 200 Verado, and 200 Verado Pro:
http://www.bostonwhaler.com/boat_graphics/electronic_brochure/Company94/_58_918201544347PM.pdf
http://www.bostonwhaler.com/boat_graphics/electronic_brochure/Company94/_58_918201544347PM.pdf
Re: 2012 210 Montauk, Verado 200
The performance test data published by Boston Whaler about their boats is generally very comprehensive and representative of the sort of results customers can get.
In general for outboard engines there is little data available about reliability. Most accounts are just anecdotal reports from owners, often reports of problems as one might expect, as lack of a problem is not usually reported. One often finds outboard engine reliability is more dependent on the care and maintenance provided by the boat owner than anything intrinsic in the outboard engine.
The hallmark of the VERADO has been its amazingly quiet engine operation at idles speeds, so quiet that it is actually difficult to determine by ear if the engine is running. This level of sound suppression was set by the original VERADO six-cylinder design. The in-line six is also a naturally balanced engine, and the VERADO six-cylinder is extremely impressive for its lack of noise, vibration, or harshness (NVH) in its design. In the 200-HP models, the model called the VERADO Pro is based on the six-cylinder design. I would expect it would share these NVH attributes.
The VERADO 200-HP (not Pro model) engine is a four-cylinder in-line small-displacement engine. In general the in-line four-cylinder configuration is not an inherently balanced design, and most modern in-line four-cylinder engines employ balancing shafts to improve (that is, to remove) vibrations. Because the displacement is small, Mercury has not employed balancing shafts in their VERADO four-cylinder engines. As a result the engine is not vibration-free like its larger cousins in the VERADO line. The noise signature of the four-cylinder is also noticeably louder than the six-cylinder engines.
All VERADO engines use electrically operated remote throttle and shift controls. These modern remote controls are generally a very significant improvement over Mercury's mechanical cable-linked controls, and they are extremely smooth in their operation. Some owners have experienced problems with their engines that they believed were due to the electrical remote controls not having sufficient drag or detent characteristics, causing them to permit shifting into Reverse at high forward speeds when the operator intended only to shift to Neutral. I believe that there are mechanical adjustments that can increase the drag or effort needed to move the control lever, and users should be able to set the friction to a desired level to prevent those problems. Other than anecdotal reports about over-shifting into Reverse, I believe reliability of the Verado controls has been excellent.
The larger block engines in the VERADO line all employ an electro-hydraulic power-boost steering which is also an excellent addition. In the four-cylinder engines the power steering is not mandatory. It is an option. Due to the nature of the VERADO electrical power generating capabilities, the engine is typically a net consumer of electrical energy from its battery at lower speeds. The power steering is also a significant load on the battery--up to 60-Amperes may be needed. For these reasons, Mercury requires very specific capacities for the battery used with the VERADO. Attention to the battery condition and state of charge are important with the Verado, particularly models with electro-hydraulic steering.
General problems with the engine seem to be most associated with electrical devices. The coil-on-plug ignition spark coils have been mentioned as being a problem at times. The electric starter motor has also been mentioned as a problem. I don't believe there is any particularly worrisome systematic problem with Verado engines in regard to their reliability, and their frequency of repair seems, to me, to be about the same as other engines. All outboard engines require some periodic maintenance and service. I don't think Verado is an exception to that in either being better or worse. One concern regarding service for the VERADO: not all Mercury dealers have obtained the necessary training, certification, or (expensive) diagnostic tools that are necessary to provide service for a VERADO. The availability of a local, qualified, Mercury dealer for servicing a VERADO can vary with geographic areas. In some regions the number of VERADO certified servicing dealers may be quite limited.
The supercharging of the engine produces excellent power on demand, but the cost of that boost is usually felt in reduce fuel economy, especially at the higher throttle settings during which the supercharger boost is most active. The initial reaction to having a supercharger on an outboard engine was skepticism about durability in the marine environment--particularly the tropical saltwater markets in which the Verado enjoys its greatest popularity--but it appears, based on an absence of complaints, that the supercharger design has held up.
By using supercharging, the VERADO engines produces more horsepower from smaller displacement. In the VERADO line, the engine which produces the most horsepower per liter of displacement is the in-line four-cylinder 200-HP engine, which is making 117.6-HP-per-liter. This is more horsepower per liter than even in the 300-HP VERADO. (There are VERADO engine with more than 300-HP, but I think they are in a special category, racing or something like that; they must be making even more horsepower per liter.) This same four-cylinder 1.7-liter block is used in the 75-HP FOURSTROKE engine from Mercury, where it is making only 44.1-HP-per-liter. This is a good indication of how much supercharging boost is being used in the VERADO to get to 200-HP. The power output per liter goes from 44.1-HP/liter to 117.6-HP/liter, an increase of 2.7-time the horsepower-per-liter. There is a notion about engines and the power output which suggests that engines with a lot of displacement and lower power output per liter are engines that are loafing along, while engines that are producing much greater power output per liter are engines that are really working hard. In recent years, the use of forced-air induction, either supercharging or turbocharging, has come into more widespread use in automobile engines, and there is a trend to have higher peak power output from smaller displacement engines.
In general for outboard engines there is little data available about reliability. Most accounts are just anecdotal reports from owners, often reports of problems as one might expect, as lack of a problem is not usually reported. One often finds outboard engine reliability is more dependent on the care and maintenance provided by the boat owner than anything intrinsic in the outboard engine.
The hallmark of the VERADO has been its amazingly quiet engine operation at idles speeds, so quiet that it is actually difficult to determine by ear if the engine is running. This level of sound suppression was set by the original VERADO six-cylinder design. The in-line six is also a naturally balanced engine, and the VERADO six-cylinder is extremely impressive for its lack of noise, vibration, or harshness (NVH) in its design. In the 200-HP models, the model called the VERADO Pro is based on the six-cylinder design. I would expect it would share these NVH attributes.
The VERADO 200-HP (not Pro model) engine is a four-cylinder in-line small-displacement engine. In general the in-line four-cylinder configuration is not an inherently balanced design, and most modern in-line four-cylinder engines employ balancing shafts to improve (that is, to remove) vibrations. Because the displacement is small, Mercury has not employed balancing shafts in their VERADO four-cylinder engines. As a result the engine is not vibration-free like its larger cousins in the VERADO line. The noise signature of the four-cylinder is also noticeably louder than the six-cylinder engines.
All VERADO engines use electrically operated remote throttle and shift controls. These modern remote controls are generally a very significant improvement over Mercury's mechanical cable-linked controls, and they are extremely smooth in their operation. Some owners have experienced problems with their engines that they believed were due to the electrical remote controls not having sufficient drag or detent characteristics, causing them to permit shifting into Reverse at high forward speeds when the operator intended only to shift to Neutral. I believe that there are mechanical adjustments that can increase the drag or effort needed to move the control lever, and users should be able to set the friction to a desired level to prevent those problems. Other than anecdotal reports about over-shifting into Reverse, I believe reliability of the Verado controls has been excellent.
The larger block engines in the VERADO line all employ an electro-hydraulic power-boost steering which is also an excellent addition. In the four-cylinder engines the power steering is not mandatory. It is an option. Due to the nature of the VERADO electrical power generating capabilities, the engine is typically a net consumer of electrical energy from its battery at lower speeds. The power steering is also a significant load on the battery--up to 60-Amperes may be needed. For these reasons, Mercury requires very specific capacities for the battery used with the VERADO. Attention to the battery condition and state of charge are important with the Verado, particularly models with electro-hydraulic steering.
General problems with the engine seem to be most associated with electrical devices. The coil-on-plug ignition spark coils have been mentioned as being a problem at times. The electric starter motor has also been mentioned as a problem. I don't believe there is any particularly worrisome systematic problem with Verado engines in regard to their reliability, and their frequency of repair seems, to me, to be about the same as other engines. All outboard engines require some periodic maintenance and service. I don't think Verado is an exception to that in either being better or worse. One concern regarding service for the VERADO: not all Mercury dealers have obtained the necessary training, certification, or (expensive) diagnostic tools that are necessary to provide service for a VERADO. The availability of a local, qualified, Mercury dealer for servicing a VERADO can vary with geographic areas. In some regions the number of VERADO certified servicing dealers may be quite limited.
The supercharging of the engine produces excellent power on demand, but the cost of that boost is usually felt in reduce fuel economy, especially at the higher throttle settings during which the supercharger boost is most active. The initial reaction to having a supercharger on an outboard engine was skepticism about durability in the marine environment--particularly the tropical saltwater markets in which the Verado enjoys its greatest popularity--but it appears, based on an absence of complaints, that the supercharger design has held up.
By using supercharging, the VERADO engines produces more horsepower from smaller displacement. In the VERADO line, the engine which produces the most horsepower per liter of displacement is the in-line four-cylinder 200-HP engine, which is making 117.6-HP-per-liter. This is more horsepower per liter than even in the 300-HP VERADO. (There are VERADO engine with more than 300-HP, but I think they are in a special category, racing or something like that; they must be making even more horsepower per liter.) This same four-cylinder 1.7-liter block is used in the 75-HP FOURSTROKE engine from Mercury, where it is making only 44.1-HP-per-liter. This is a good indication of how much supercharging boost is being used in the VERADO to get to 200-HP. The power output per liter goes from 44.1-HP/liter to 117.6-HP/liter, an increase of 2.7-time the horsepower-per-liter. There is a notion about engines and the power output which suggests that engines with a lot of displacement and lower power output per liter are engines that are loafing along, while engines that are producing much greater power output per liter are engines that are really working hard. In recent years, the use of forced-air induction, either supercharging or turbocharging, has come into more widespread use in automobile engines, and there is a trend to have higher peak power output from smaller displacement engines.
Re: 2012 210 Montauk, Verado 200
I have a 2015 210 Montauk with a T-top, powered by the VERADO 200 four-cylinder engine, I bought it mid-2015. We are very happy with the performance. I was a little nervous about the VERADO and initially wanted the 150 FOURSTROKE. So far, I really like the VERADO--plenty of power to do anything you want. The shifting is much better than with the 150 FOURSTROKE. I previously had a 190 with the FOURSTROKE for three years and a 170 with the 90 FOURSTROKE for four years before that.
If you look at the performance information on the Boston Whaler site, it appears that the 150 FOURSTROKE is equal to the 200 VERADO. It does not make sense to me. The 210 MONTAUK weighs at least 500-lbs more than the 190 MONTAUK, which would make you think that a 200 is needed. I went with the 200-HP engine. The 210 MONTAUK is a great boat and we love it. Good luck!
John
If you look at the performance information on the Boston Whaler site, it appears that the 150 FOURSTROKE is equal to the 200 VERADO. It does not make sense to me. The 210 MONTAUK weighs at least 500-lbs more than the 190 MONTAUK, which would make you think that a 200 is needed. I went with the 200-HP engine. The 210 MONTAUK is a great boat and we love it. Good luck!
John
Re: 2012 210 Montauk, Verado 200
The Boston Whaler performance reports for the 210 MONTAUK with the 150-HP and 200-HP engines are not equal. The boat speed at full throttle with the 200-HP engine is greater than with the 150-HP engine. The boat weights are only different by 50-lbs in a range of 4,100-lbs.
Weight increased by 4105/4051 = 1.01333
Horsepower increased by 200/150 = 1.3333
The net power-to-weight ratio change is thus 1.3333 / 1.01333 = 1.31576. Speed should increase by this same ratio to the 0.5 exponent or 1.147-times.
Speed in MPH increased to 46.6 from 42.1, an increase in a ratio of 1.107, and is slightly below the estimated 1.147 by a difference of 0.04 or roughly 3.5-percent less improvement in speed than would otherwise be expected. A variation in actual data from predicted data of only 3.5-percent is really quite a good outcome. If we stated this in terms of MPH, the test data shows increasing to 200-HP from 150-HP should have in theory caused the boat speed to increase by 1.147-times to 48.3-MPH, but in actual testing the boat speed reached only 46.6-MPH, or 1.7-MPH lower than anticipated.
There are several possible reasons for the 3.5-percent variance in measured data from predicted data:
--the predicted data was inaccurate; this is probably the most reasonable explanation; the predicted data is based on a very rough assumption of the effect of horsepower on speed of moderate planing hull boats; an error of 3.5-percent in the actual test from predicted outcome could easily be due to poor assumptions in the model used to predict the speed;
--the testing conditions might have had different weather, sea state, operators, or other variables
--the measurement data for speed could contain errors; and error in speed of just 1.75-percent in each measurement of speed and in opposite directions would create this outcome; measurement of boat speed through the water using GPS speed obtained by the usual time and distance calculation is known to only be accurate to around 0.5-MPH; at 40-MPH a variation of 0.5-MPH is an error of 1.25-percent; presence of current flow in the water would also affect speed over ground measurements;
--the power output of engines is allowed to differ from their rated power by as much as 10-percent due to production variations; this also could account for the difference;
--rating of engine power is allowed to differ by about 6-percent from peak power based on ICOMIA standards; this also could account for the difference.
However, in no sense was the performance equal. The more powerful engine was able to push the boat to higher speeds when the power output of the more powerful engine exceeded the maximum power output of the less powerful engine.
Weight increased by 4105/4051 = 1.01333
Horsepower increased by 200/150 = 1.3333
The net power-to-weight ratio change is thus 1.3333 / 1.01333 = 1.31576. Speed should increase by this same ratio to the 0.5 exponent or 1.147-times.
Speed in MPH increased to 46.6 from 42.1, an increase in a ratio of 1.107, and is slightly below the estimated 1.147 by a difference of 0.04 or roughly 3.5-percent less improvement in speed than would otherwise be expected. A variation in actual data from predicted data of only 3.5-percent is really quite a good outcome. If we stated this in terms of MPH, the test data shows increasing to 200-HP from 150-HP should have in theory caused the boat speed to increase by 1.147-times to 48.3-MPH, but in actual testing the boat speed reached only 46.6-MPH, or 1.7-MPH lower than anticipated.
There are several possible reasons for the 3.5-percent variance in measured data from predicted data:
--the predicted data was inaccurate; this is probably the most reasonable explanation; the predicted data is based on a very rough assumption of the effect of horsepower on speed of moderate planing hull boats; an error of 3.5-percent in the actual test from predicted outcome could easily be due to poor assumptions in the model used to predict the speed;
--the testing conditions might have had different weather, sea state, operators, or other variables
--the measurement data for speed could contain errors; and error in speed of just 1.75-percent in each measurement of speed and in opposite directions would create this outcome; measurement of boat speed through the water using GPS speed obtained by the usual time and distance calculation is known to only be accurate to around 0.5-MPH; at 40-MPH a variation of 0.5-MPH is an error of 1.25-percent; presence of current flow in the water would also affect speed over ground measurements;
--the power output of engines is allowed to differ from their rated power by as much as 10-percent due to production variations; this also could account for the difference;
--rating of engine power is allowed to differ by about 6-percent from peak power based on ICOMIA standards; this also could account for the difference.
However, in no sense was the performance equal. The more powerful engine was able to push the boat to higher speeds when the power output of the more powerful engine exceeded the maximum power output of the less powerful engine.