1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

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StarwindMango
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1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

Postby StarwindMango » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:07 am

Hi All. Let me introduce myself. I have enjoyed reading this forum immensely.

Yesterday I purchased a 1988 Revenge 22 Walk-Through. The boat's current name is "Crawdaddy", and it was based at Lake Hartwell in South Carolina. I've brought the boat back to Lake Murray near Columbia, South Carolina.

My understanding is this particular REVENGE 22 Walk-Through has only had a few owners. It has a hard top and Johnson 140 four-stroke-power-cycle engine. I want to add a stern seat.

MarkCz
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby MarkCz » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:59 am

Welcome aboard and congrats on the boat. My dad had the same REVENGE 22 Walk-Through until about three years ago [but later clarified it was not the same boat, just another REVENGE 22 Walk-Through--Moderator]. It was a great boat. I am curious how the 140-HP four-stroke-power-cycle engine moves the boat. I believe that engine was made by Suzuki for Johnson. Suzuki engines were great.

jimh
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby jimh » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:02 pm

The REVENGE 22 Walk-Through is a very popular model. I have one with a Whaler Drive and a 225-HP engine. I would expect that with only a 140-HP engine, and with the added weight and wind resistance of a fixed hard top, the REVENGE 22 W-T would not be a speed demon.

biggiefl
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby biggiefl » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:33 pm

It would be a speed demon if he can find another 140-HP Johnson for twins.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

jimh
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby jimh » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:35 pm

Re a stern seat for a 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through: my boat has the stern seat. Since I am usually always at the helm, I don't use the stern seat much. Chris (my wife) is very fond of it, as the seat is long enough you can lay down on it. When underway in rough seas, the ride at the stern seat is very comfortable as the amount of vertical motion there is much less that at the helm.

The drawback of the stern seat (on a Whaler Drive boat) is impeded access to the starboard sump and the drain plug in the sump. To take out the drain plug while the stern seat is in place requires laying on the cockpit deck and reaching under the seat, into the sump, locating the plug by feel, and then removing it with just your finger tips.

If I did not have the stern seat, I would just get two nice padded folding captain's chairs, and install a cooler with a padded seat. Since my boat has the Whaler Drive, there is a small aft deck, and the transom is completely closed. If I had an open transom, notched transom boat, I would install some sort of railing across the cockpit to keep people from falling out over the transom. Inclusion of a railing running across the cockpit behind a stern seat may have been part of the option of having the stern seat. If you install a stern seat, you likely will need to install that sort of railing across the cockpit behind the stern seat to give proper support to the upright back cushion of the seat.

I would like to see a photograph of the engine splash well on your 1988 REVENGE 22. Many 22-foot hulls were molded with the rather small "sink" type engine splash well. The other hulls in this series, like the 18, the 20, and the 25-foot hulls, have a full-width engine splash well. For some reason, the 22-foot hull has the much small sink splash well, and that was later changed to a full-width splash well around c.1990. My 1990 REVENGE 22 was molded with the sink splash well, but then converted at the factory to a full transom and Whaler Drive.

The cabin on the REVENGE 22 is quite comfortable for overnighting. We have spent hundreds of nights sleeping aboard. I think the longest stretch of cruising and sleeping aboard was just over two weeks. The berths are seven-feet long and really provide good sleeping.

jimh
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby jimh » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:27 am

ASIDE ON THE TANGENTIAL TOPIC OF WHO MADE A JOHNSON 140-HP ENGINE

A Johnson 140-HP four-stroke-power-cycle engine was not made by Johnson-Evinrude, but was SUZUKI DF140 engine that was being sold as a Johnson-branded engine. For several years there was a rebranding of Suzuki engines as Johnson engines. Eventually the Johnson branding was dropped and Johnson-Evinrude became just Evinrude. I don't know the exact time frame when there was a Suzuki-Johnson relationship, but it was some time ago, around c.1995 to c.2005. I believe this occurred after Bombardier bought the remains of OMC at the bankruptcy auction.

The probable motivation for Bombardier to sell re-branded Suzuki engines was to be able to comply with federal restrictions being imposed by the EPA. In the USA an engine manufacturer could continue to sell non-compliant exhaust gas emission engines as long as the total mix of product sold resulted in a reduction in exhaust gas emission that met the EPA regulations. This approach was used by Mercury as well, as they sold a lot of four-stroke-power-cycle engines that were made by Yamaha and re-branded as Mercury engines during this same time. Deals like these made by Mercury with Yamaha and Johnson with Suzuki permitted those two manufacturers to continue to sell two-stroke-power-cycle engines that could not meet the EPA exhaust gas emission. The amount of exhaust gas emission reduction was phased in over about a ten year period, which was intended to allow the manufacturers time to revise their products and meet the final emission reduction goals, which became progressively more restrictive.

In the case of Johnson-Evinrude under Bombardier, they already has a compliant engine in their FICHT models and did not need a boost from re-branded Suzuki engines to meet EPA emission reductions. In c.2003 Evinrude introduced the E-TEC engine, which was completely compliant with all EPA and other global emissions and was actually the cleanest outboard engine available. Sometime after that, the arrangement with Suzuki expired, and the sale of Johnson-branded Suzuki-made engine came to a end. Actually, the same of all Johnson-branded engines came to an end, as Bombardier dropped that brand name.

During this time, the number of dealers selling Suzuki engines increased, and Suzuki began to have its own brand being sold in the USA and gained their own market share, which has been steadily growing. I suspect by 2020 Suzuki's market share may have exceeded Evinrude's.

ASIDE ON THE TANGENTIAL TOPIC OF THE QUALITY OF SUZUKI ENGINES
The quality of the Suzuki four-stroke-power-cycle engines is considered to be very good. Many owners report freedom from repairs and only perform routine maintenance on their engines. The outboard engine marketing world was set on its ends when Suzuki introduced a six-year-warranty offer. Many competitors only offered one-year to three-year warranties on their outboard engines at that time. Suzuki ignited a warranty duration offer war, which eventually grew to an offer of a ten-year warranty by Evinrude at the peak of this warranty competition.

StarwindMango
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby StarwindMango » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:13 am

The boat runs about 30-nautical-miles-per-hour at maximum throttle with [the 140-HP] engine. Cruise speed is 20 to 25-nautical-miles-per-hour—plenty speed for me.

To get the boat on plane even with several passengers and a full tank [is not a concern].

I've previously owned a Johnson-Suzuki engine on a prior boat and was really pleased with [it because it was] extremely quiet and fuel efficient.

StarwindMango
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby StarwindMango » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:14 am

jimh wrote:I would like to see a photograph of the engine splash well on your 1988 REVENGE 22. Many 22-foot hulls were molded with the rather small "sink" type engine splash well.


I don't have a picture of the stern well handy, but it is very small. Large kitchen sink size.

The four drain plugs in this boat are such a pain. Has anyone changed this? The one in the cabin sole seems useless. I don't see any water ever getting down there.

floater
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby floater » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:40 pm

On my 1988 Revenge 20 WT the front sump in the cabin fills with water after a rain; the rainwater collects [elsewhere] and flows into the cabin when [the boat is being towed on the trailer and] I [drive] down a hill on the way to the ramp.

jimh
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby jimh » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:25 pm

floater wrote:On my 1988 Revenge 20 WT the front sump in the cabin fills with water after a rain; the rainwater collects [elsewhere] and flows into the cabin when [the boat is being towed on the trailer and] I [drive] down a hill on the way to the ramp.

This also occurred when pulling my REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive on the trailer. We were always descending a very long and very high hill on the drive home from the ramp, and any water in the cockpit sump would flow into the cabin and then collect in the cabin sump.

Re the drains: when you count four I presume you mean:
  • cabin sump
  • starboard cockpit deck sump
  • aft center live well, and
  • transom engine deep center drain

With a Whaler Drive there are only three drains. There is no engine splash well deep center drain. I leave them plugged all the time.

StarwindMango
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby StarwindMango » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:04 pm

Yes that's the four I'm counting. One in the cabin, one in the livewell, one on starboard side under battery and one in the transom.

Speaking of drains: where do the drains under the helm seat and copilot seat drain? Into the cabin well?

One more question: I'm planning to move my battery off the transom area and add a house battery (one starting, one house). Where have others moved theirs to?

jimh
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby jimh » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:47 pm

Leave the battery (or batteries) in the stern.

jimh
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through

Postby jimh » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:15 am

The drain openings in the cockpit deck drain into the rigging tunnels, as far as I can tell.

Buy some pink marine antifreeze and pour a cup into the drain. Find where it comes out to confirm the path of flow.

StarwindMango
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

Postby StarwindMango » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:07 am

jimh wrote:Leave the battery (or batteries) in the stern.


Why do you say leave the battery at the stern? The one there now is quite in the way and I could use some extra weight forward since I'm only running one motor.

biggiefl
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

Postby biggiefl » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:17 am

I would not want more weight forward in a Revenge, especially with only one engine. It is not pleasant to have no reverse thrust.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

Postby jimh » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:43 pm

StarwindMango wrote:Why do you say leave the battery at the stern?

For the electrical basis for my recommendation see an article on the topic

Location of Batteries in Small Boats
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5969#p34857

Re the electrical degradation when moving batteries and improper wire conductor size is used: many times boaters move the engine cranking battery farther from the engine and improperly select the conductor size necessary to maintain the same amount of voltage drop. The effect of this error in the wire conductor size is to significantly increase the voltage drop in the cables during engine cranking. This loss of voltage in the cables reduces the voltage at the starter motor in the outboard engine. This leads to slower engine cranking or to inability to crank over the engine if the battery state of charge is not at a nearly full-charge level. An outboard engine that cannot be started means loss of propulsion power on a boat, which is a serious problem.

For my comments about the effect of battery weight on the static or dynamic trim of the hull:

The 22-foot hull was designed with the possibility of twin engine power. Having only a single engine means the weight at the stern is about half what was intended. When the 22-foot hull is fitted with the cabin superstructure to become a REVENGE, a significant weight is added to the forward half of the boat. This tends to shift the static trim to be more level or even slightly down by the bow.

That you need to shift weight forward, in a 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through with a rather light four-cylinder single engine and the addition of a fixed hard top adding even more weight forward, in order to improve performance underway seems very unlikely.

StarwindMango
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

Postby StarwindMango » Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:43 pm

I'm planning to have the battery move done by a local marine electrician, and have a few electrical engineer friends who will check the sizing of things for me- but yes I am familiar with the concerns.

Part of my motivation for moving the battery forward is I'm planning to install a rear bench seat at the stern to provide some more seating and safety for passengers. The weight of the seat should counteract the weight movement of the batteries, but it will be wait and see. I may be able to build-in a battery box under the seat on a slide out tray which would be convenient.

jimh
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

Postby jimh » Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:46 pm

The weight of the OEM stern seat in my REVENGE 22 is nothing like the weight of one battery. The seat maybe weighs 30-lbs. To pick up the seat and move it is quite easy, and much less difficult than picking up a lead-acid starting battery. A lead-acid starting battery weighs more like 50 to 70-lbs. Two batteries weigh 100 to 140-lbs. That weight is substantially more than the seat will weigh, unless you build the seat out of steel.

I am not clear where you plan to relocate the batteries. The REVENGE helm area is a not a good choice unless you want to eliminate the shelves in the storage locker below the helm. The Port side area has the door sliding into it, so there is not much room for a battery in there. If you could get a battery in there it would be a very awkward place to lift the battery into or get the battery out from.

Can you clarify to where the two batteries from the stern are going to move?

StarwindMango
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Re: Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

Postby StarwindMango » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:21 pm

Last week I had electrical work done by Tidal Marine in Charleston, South Carolina, on my Boston Whaler 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-through boat to relocated the batteries.

We left the starting battery (designated No. 1 battery) at the stern as it was originally. The deep cycle battery (designated No. 2 battery was moved to be) under the helm. My Revenge 22 W-T had no shelving under there at all, so I didn't really lose much, and [the absence of shelves] made for a cleaner installation [of a battery in that compartment].

Tidal Marine put a battery isolator switch under the helm to prevent draining of the second battery.

Also, two new [Blue Sea Systems] fuse panels with terminal blocks [were installed,] one behind the helm and [a second in] the overhead electronics box. The Perko battery switch [is located] under the helm.

Tidal marine also ran new wiring to just about every lamp and device, including new Wet Sounds speakers below the captain and copilot seats and a Wet Sounds Stealth-6 Core W sound bar that now lives under the hard top. [The soundbar is a] very sleek design and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb, in keeping with the classic nature of the boat

I bought a stern seat from a gentleman in Brunswick, Georgia, but haven't had a chance to install it yet. I would estimate its weight as at least 50-lbs. Unfortunately, since both batteries are on the starboard side, the boat is going to list that direction at rest, but I have some weight in the cabin that I can redistribute which should (mostly) even it out.

I recommend Tidal Marine for boat electrical work to anyone in the area; they were very thorough.

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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

Postby Masbama » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:59 pm

Interesting. Pictures would be appreciated.

jimh
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

Postby jimh » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:12 am

To describe how the two batteries are connected to their various loads and to each other in a narrative is very difficult. Perhaps you can provide a sketch that shows how the two batteries are wired to their battery switches and how they can be interconnected to be in parallel. Also the gauge of the primary battery wiring would be useful to know.

The overhead electronics box you mention must have been added after the boat left Boston Whaler. I do not recall any factory option for a REVENGE 22 W-T that provided a fixed hard top with electronics box. The hardtop is adding more weight in the forward half of the boat than would exist a standard REVENGE 22 W-T model.

I don't think a list to starboard in static trim will be a problem. The list to starboard should help promote any water on deck to drain into the starboard sump.

StarwindMango
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

Postby StarwindMango » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:21 pm

I'll try to get some pictures this weekend and post them. I do know they upsized the wiring going up the console to the second battery and the Perko switch.

Jimh made a good point about the water draining: the list to starboard might be a blessing in disguise.

I [want to know] more about hard tops on the Revenge models.

I [may] do some research into the previous owners of the boat and see when [and] how [the hardtop on my REVENGE 22 W-T] was added. [The hard top] is a full width top and has a Boston Whaler logo on the front of the electronics box--an aftermarket decal I'm sur). If this hard top is not a factory top, it is a very well done aftermarket addition. The hard top is extremely solid--solid enough that I can walk on top with zero flexing.

jimh
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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through Option for Hard Top

Postby jimh » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:57 am

Boston Whaler offered an option of a hard top on the REVENGE 25 WALKAROUND model. I don't see any mention in any catalog of a hard top for a REVENGE 22 W-T. In the 1988 OPTION catalog, the hard top is noted as being only for the REVENGE 25 Walkaround.

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Re: 1988 REVENGE 22 Walk-Through; moving batteries out of stern

Postby jimh » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:01 am

StarwindMango wrote:I'll try to get some pictures this weekend and post them


Electrical circuitry is best described with a schematic diagram. Pictures of electrical wiring are not particularly good methods to describe the wiring.

For an example of how to describe the power distribution wiring on a small boat, see the schematic diagram in my article at

PRIMARY POWER DISTRIBUTION
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4329#p24611