Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

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K9medic
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Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby K9medic » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:14 pm

[I j]ust picked up a 17 GUARDIAN hull that appears overall in good condition and has no major holes or drilling. I’d like to think I got a decent deal.

After my wife saw it, she said it was too small and wants larger boat.

What’s the going price for a 1985 GUARDIAN hull?

jimh
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby jimh » Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:26 pm

For just a 34-year-old bare 17-foot hull that probably was in commercial or (worse) military or (even worse) municipal local government service, maybe $1,000 for a quick sale. Condition will be a influence. The more stuff that comes with it, the more value.

K9medic
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby K9medic » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:36 pm

Ugh. Not what I was hoping to hear! --I laugh aloud--.

I redid a wahoo a few years ago and figured there was going to be some more value in a Guardian.

sraab928
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby sraab928 » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:22 am

Pictures and location are really the only way we can give a true educated guess- By hull we are assuming bare hull no console, no motor, no rigging, no trailer.
Scott
1971 Boston Whaler Outrage 21 - under restoration
1974 Boston Whaler Revenge 21

K9medic
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby K9medic » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:39 am

Based in Florida.

I have a trailer for it but it is pretty rough. I know pictures would help but those are a few days away since I need to clean the dang thing. I hit it with a pressure washer last night and got some of the big stuff off, now it's on to the actual scrubbing.

jimh
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby jimh » Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:54 am

What exactly are we appraising?

Is this boat a beefed up Montauk 17 hull?

Or a beefed up Outrage 17 II hull?

What color is the gel coat? What is the condition of the gel coat?

Where has the boat been the last 34-years? What sort of use? What climate? Where was it stored?

Are there railings, a center console, a windshield, a fuel tank, a steering wheel, navigation lighting, seats, a boarding ladder, cushions, anchor, fenders, lines, gauges, engines, and other normal parts of a usable boat?

Is the trailer road-legal, have a title, currently registered, and with a license plate?

jimh
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby jimh » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:48 am

Give a view of the hull at the transom as seen from astern.

K9medic
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby K9medic » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:23 am

432CBF22-1D82-40A9-8C98-C411F98F058C.jpeg
Fig. 1. Rear view of hull.
432CBF22-1D82-40A9-8C98-C411F98F058C.jpeg (127.92 KiB) Viewed 7060 times

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Phil T
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby Phil T » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:55 pm

It is important to note the Guardian 17 is a recreational Montauk 17 hull with added reinforcement in strategic areas and a customizable interior offered by the Commercial Products Division (CPD) of Boston Whaler since 1983. In 2001 the division was moved to its own facility and renamed Brunswick Commercial & Government Product Division (BCGPD). In 2018 the division was shut down and its products were integrated into Boston Whaler.

Your photo shows a bare hull so it has limited value and is nominally more valuable than a bare 17' recreational hull.
1992 Outrage 17
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jimh
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby jimh » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:32 pm

Figure 1 show what appears to be a hull molded in gray gel coat which has then been painted in a shade of while, with the paint now peeling off. There appears to be a federal HIN metal tag riveted to the hull on the starboard side of the transom notch. Take a close-up image of the HIN and more information may be available with the number. The lifting or towing eyes are missing. There is a ground electrode and conductor on the port side of the transom.

K9medic
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby K9medic » Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:31 pm

I spent some more time cleaning up this afternoon.

HIN is BWC5741J485

jimh
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby jimh » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:20 pm

No further photographs will be necessary for the purpose of making an appraisal for the value of the hull. The ones posted already show sufficient information to make a rough estimate of value without an actual in-person inspection.

The HIN is probably missing some information. It does not match either of the two known formats. The last two digits "85" may be indicative of 1985, but if they are, then the HIN is not supposed to be on a metal tag. See the FAQ for more comments on decoding the HIN.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q2

Give the HIN tag a closer look and concentrate on finding possible pre-printed characters on the metal tag that supplement the embossed characters.

IMPORTANT: if the boat hull were molded for commercial duty, it would have been a Work Boat hull, and the HIN would contain the letters WB to indicate that modification. Without the WB suffix, the only indicators of the boat being a GUARDIAN hull are the larger rub rail and the gray gel coat.

The location of the rigging tunnel port about 84-inches from the splash well is consistent with the drawing of hull reinforcements from Boston Whaler hat is provided in the REFERENCE article on this boat. See

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/16-17/

and

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... 0x743.jpeg

In terms of restoration, many essential components are missing from this hull. If your plan was to restore the hull to be a normal MONTAUK 17 with center console, railings, seats, and the usual standard accessories, you will need to obtain dozens of OEM parts. I doubt you can find all the parts easily or at bargain prices, and on that basis a restoration will be very expensive. I recommend you abandon this hull if restoration to original was your aim. A further consideration against a complete restoration is the apparently unknown history of use of the hull. Generally hulls purchased from individuals come with some history of use, which permits the buyer to have insight into what problems might be hidden from view.

If you just want a nice 17-foot hull to be the basis for creating a small boat of your own layout and design, this hull will be suitable, assuming the hull has no soft spots, has not gained significant weight from ingress and retention of water into the interior foam spaces, and has a transom with good strength and integrity.

So far, the only evidence that would affect my original estimate of a value at $1,000 for a quick sale is the trailer. The trailer looks like it might be worth $100, and possibly more if it does not need substantial renovation. The trailer also facilitates the sale of the boat as it allows the buyer to tow it away. Thus I now estimate the value of hull and trailer about $1,100 if interested in a quick sale. As in any offering of an item for sale, the lower the price the more potential buyers. If you want to sell at a higher price it may take longer to find a buyer.

The larger rubber rub rail is a neutral factor. If you like the big rub rail and it is still flexible, then you won't have to spend $250 getting a rub rail replacement kit.

jimh
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby jimh » Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:48 am

Re the HIN as described as "BWC5741J485"

Assuming that the HIN is the newer format required for boats made in 1985, but for some reason the HIN is on a metal tag instead of the required embossing directly into the hull, the HIN can be interpreted as follows:

    BWC = Boston Whaler's manufacturer's identification code or MIC

    5741 = a portion of what is supposed to be a five-character production sequence number; a missing number may have been pre-printed on the metal tag instead of being embossed; the prefix might have been "A";

    J = encoding of month of production: October

    4 = encoding of year of production: 1984

    85 = encoding of model year: 1985.

It appears that someone may have painted over the metal tag with the HIN. If that has occurred then to recover the pre-printed characters on the metal tag will be very difficult. As requested in a prior post, having a close-up image of the metal tag will be more useful in interpretation. There may be spaces in the embossed characters which would suggest pre-printed characters were used on the tag.

Based on the known use by Boston Whaler of the production number sequence for 17-foot hulls to begin with an "A" prefix. the HIN might possibly have originally been

BWC A5741 J4 85

With a complete HIN, you may be able to contact Boston Whaler customer service and inquire about this hull. At one time, Boston Whaler retained their old hand-written record books about hull production, and with a HIN they may be able to tell you the original dealer that ordered this hull and some particulars about the original configuration. Having this information may help in selling the hull to the next buyer.

This ends my appraisal of the hull. Good luck with the sale.

biggiefl
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby biggiefl » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:11 am

Honestly...you will be lucky to get a G note for that.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

Acseatsri
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby Acseatsri » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:40 pm

I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole unless you can find another hull in worse condition that you can cannibalize for the missing parts. Trying to buy all the missing parts will be time consuming finding used or expensive if buying from Specialty Marine.

It might be worth more to a marina as a bare bones work boat, but definitely not a candidate for restoration.

Whal
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby Whal » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:18 pm

I have one of these hulls, a 1999 Alert 17 with gray gel coat. These are great boats. First thing I would do is take it to a truck scale and weigh it. The bare hull should weigh around 1,000 to 1,050-lbs--if dry.

[If the boat under discussion does not] have a lot of holes, that is good news.

If the weight is about right you can make a great custom out of it.

Q: Does it have the stainless steel keelguard?

Mine does.

These boats are built like a tank.

A very nice center console can be bought from Panga Marine for $500 to $600.

A nice steering wheel and steering cable for $300.

A custom made leaning post for $600.

You should have the hull painted for $2,000.

By then it should look like new. The miscellaneous hardware can be found easily as aftermarket.

Now all you need is an engine and controls.

For for about $3,500 [addition expense you will have added a center console, a leaning post, a steering wheel, a helm, and a painted hull) and can have a great hull ready for power.

It will not be a stock Whaler, but it will be a great boat and turn a lot of heads and get you on the water.

jimh
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby jimh » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:03 pm

Then perhaps $9,000 for new engine, and maybe $1,500 for remote controls, gauges.

Still need all kinds of stuff:
  • battery
  • battery switch
  • battery box
  • power distribution wiring
  • navigation lighting
  • anchor
  • cleats
  • lines
  • PFDs
  • rod holders
  • VHF Marine Band radio
  • VHF Marine Band antenna
  • Antenna mount
  • SONAR
  • chart plotter

Figure another $3,000 in that gear. So now $12,000, plus the cost of the bare hull, plus the $3,500 cost of the earlier expenses for console and seats. Now we are up to about $18,500 plus the cost of the bare hull. Great deal for a 34-year-old boat.

Also, who is going to do all the labor?

biggiefl
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby biggiefl » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:23 am

People in the Bahamas want their boat back ;)

You forgot rubrail, lifting eyes, and bowchock, Jim
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

jimh
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby jimh » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:34 am

NICK--thanks for the reminder. The boat has a rub rail, but if it needed replacement that will be $250; the bow chock is about $50 and the lifting eyes about $50, for a total of another $350 into the project.

Whal
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby Whal » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:03 am

Some of us take pride in being able to take something like this hull and being able to bring it back to life and others don't . I guess I'm just a glass 1/2 full type of guy.

biggiefl
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Re: Appraisal: 1985 Guardian 17

Postby biggiefl » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:16 am

WHAL--many here agree with you, but this hull might be a tad too far gone for a restoration. It would make a great duck hunting boat or clamming boat, but not a restoration.

[READERS: the appraisal is completed. The new owner has begun a new thread in REPAIRS and MODIFICATIONS to show his restoration of the bare hull that was appraised by readers to be worth $1,000. Follow the project there. This thread is now closed.--jimh]
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).