210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
zigzag930
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210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby zigzag930 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:45 am

The VERADO power steering on my 210 OUTRAGE was acting funny. I checked the power steering reservoir, and it was almost empty. I returned to the dock. I found a pinhole leak in the metal pipe on the fitting for the power steering pressure line.

veradoPowerSteering.jpg
Fig. 1. The pinhole leak is at the rusted area of the tube. Leaked fluid is everywhere.
veradoPowerSteering.jpg (42.76 KiB) Viewed 2320 times



I'm not sure if the fitting can be fixed or replaced, but I am considering that this hose may need to be replaced. According to the Boston Whaler diagram, this is an 18' [18-foot] hose. At the back of the boat, the hose enters a rigging tube along with the return line.

Q1: has any forum reader had to change this hose?

Q2: what level of [difficulty] will this project be?

I expect the two hoses are tied together in the rigging tube, I will probably have to pull them both out; replace the leaking hose; then pull the paired hose back into the rigging tube.

I sure hope someone might have some experience with this problem. The remedy like a real PITA. Any suggestions are appreciated.

jimh
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering pressure line replacement

Postby jimh » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:40 am

Please give a URL for the drawing from Boston Whaler you are mentioning that shows the power steering installation details. Mentioning the model year of the 210 OUTRAGE may also be helpful. I assume it is post c.2005, if the boat has a VERADO.

Q3: Are you sure about that 18-foot dimension?

zigzag930
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby zigzag930 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:20 pm

This is a 2007 Outrage 210.

Link to diagram attached. Reference page 3 and page 5

http://bostonwhaler.com.s3.amazonaws.co ... t-2007.pdf

jimh
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby jimh » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:26 pm

Thanks for the URL to the diagrams and model year (2007). The drawing is helpful, interesting, and confirms the 18-foot dimension for the hoses. I would have anticipated the boost pump would be installed in the console, near the steering wheel, as it seems to connect to the four-port steering wheel pump. The boost pump being installed in a stern compartment exposed it to more water, which apparently rusted the metal fitting.

It looks like the other hose--the one not leaking--must be the low-pressure return line. That one may not need replacement.

Q4: was the 210 OUTRAGE used in saltwater?

Q5: are you close to Ft. Lauderdale?

Lauderdale Marine was one of the first Boston Whaler dealers to sell VERADO-equipped boats, so I would expect they might have some experience with this problem. They be able to offer a repair, parts, or advice.

zigzag930
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby zigzag930 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:06 pm

Jim,

The Verado PS pump has been reported by many to be troublesome when it gets wet, making BW's choice of location for that pump pretty bad. The condensation problem on the hatches (see my previously posted topic) further exacerbates the rust. To help prevent this problem occuring again in the future I think I will spray the new hose fittings with Rustoleum once I get them installed. Either that or CRC Corrosion Block.

FYI and to answer your questions - 1) This is a saltwater boat. 2) I am located in Punta Gorda, FL - across the state from Ft. Lauderdale.

The hoses are sold a set (I found the Mercury P/N already for the 18' length) and the price is pretty reasonable at approx $138 for the two hoses.

Tomorrow, I'll call Boston Whaler to see how these hoses were installed. My concern is really about how difficult it will be to get those hoses out through the "rigging tube" and pull the new ones through. I have a feeling they won't want to come out very easily.

I'll also call my local dealer to see if they've had to do this repair. If not, I'll try the dealer you recommended. I can always trailer the boat over to them as it's only about 2.5 hours to get over to Ft Lauderdale.

J

floater
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby floater » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:13 pm

Those are double crimped on connectors from rubber to metal hoses. They are used widely in many applications. I had the same problem with leaks on my GMC Yukons. Up here in Canada Princess Auto can make you new hoses or just sell you the metal ends and the crimps. Down there I believe you have Harbor Freight and they can possibly do the same. This would save you having to pull out the old hoses and try and run in the new.

zigzag930
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby zigzag930 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:12 pm

Floater, If I can avoid pulling hoses, that would be preferable, as long as the fix is done properly. I would need to have a longer "pipe" section if I cut out the old fitting as the hose would be 3-4" too short after cutting the old crimp.

jimh
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby jimh » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:12 pm

Q6: is there a possibility that the leak in the metal fitting was caused by vibration and metal fatigue?

A small crack in the hose would allow hydraulic fluid to escape. The fluid is probably hygroscopic and would attract water. The water then causes rust.

If there is vibration, consider putting a damper on the metal portion.

The replacement part cost at $138 sounds like a bargain.

When pulling in a rubber hose through the rigging tubing, the friction of the rubber will be very significantly reduced by applying a water-alcohol mixture to the hoses. The alcohol and water will evaporate away in a day or two. You can use no-brand isopropyl alcohol (80-percent in water). A few dollars of alcohol should be enough for the job. I first read about this trick in an old OMC service manual. OMC used a large multi-pole connector that was contained in a rubber body. It was very difficult--impossible, really--to mate the two connectors, but if you wetted them with alcohol they would slide together easily.

Also, when more than one cable is run through a conduit, it is a very poor practice to have any sort of binding between the cables that becomes buried inside the conduit. At our plant, we had 12-inch diameter conduits that ran under a concrete floor for about 50-feet. Each conduit had dozens and dozens of low-voltage signal cables run into it. After many years, the conduit was full, but many of the cables were abandoned. We HAD to get those abandoned cables out. It was a tedious process, and you really had to want those cables to come out to get them out of there, but it could be done.

Also, there are products for wire pulling lubrication. For example: IDEAL 32 oz Clear Wire Pulling Lubricant

floater
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby floater » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:13 pm

Any competent hydraulic hose company could bend you a new longer metal end with the appropriate flare . I wouldn't even use the double crimp and just go with stainless steel hose clamps.

quickenberger
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby quickenberger » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:28 pm

Depending on the pressure that the pump produces do not use hose clamps on the pressure hose. I work with high pressure hydraulic hoses all day at work and I can tell you for a fact that the crimp on that hose is not something you'll be able to duplicate using hose clamps. I tried looking up in the Verado installation manual what pressure the pump is capable of and didnt find it. Some of the pumps are easily capable of +1500 PSI. It states in the manual that if extreme operation is done the engine(s) can produce more feedback pressure than the pump can produce dumping that excess pressure over a relief valve internally in the pump. The hose pictured with the crimped end is not a low pressure hose and could cause a blowoff and loss of engine steering control.

Call around to hydraulic shops and see if they have a hand-held portable crimper for hydraulic hoses. See link below of what I'm talking about:
https://www.parker.com/parkerimages/Par ... iKrimp.pdf

They should be able to evaluate the hose series, pressures and types of fitting that's crimped on the end of the hose and determine if that is something they can do. With the minikrimp above you may not have to pull the hose out of the rigging tunnel. Some distributors won't touch used hoses so make some calls to those who might.

zigzag930
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby zigzag930 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:27 pm

Ok, so here's what I learned today:

I called Boston Whaler, and I discussed how the hoses were installed. They weren't much help, but did confirm the Mercury part number for this item.

Next per Jim's suggestion, I called Lauderdale Marine. Unfortunately they don't work on boats over 10 years old (mines a 2007), but they were good enough to refer me to two of their previous mechanics that have left to start their own service company. Lauderdale Marine was very helpful and even explained that the process to remove the hoses isn't too difficult and that they should pull through without a problem. Of the two guys, one was booked out over a month and I didn't hear back from the other until later today. I may call on him if needed (see below).

In the meantime, two of the hydraulic repair companies called back. They would NOT work on these hoses because of "liability" problems on marine failures, so I was unable to consider that route for repair.

I called my local Mercury Performance shop and they had the hose kit in stock. I was in the area and picked it up this morning. As I hadn't had another plan that seemed viable, I figured I'd give it a shot. I will attempt to pull the hoses tomorrow and share my results here on the forum.

quickenberger
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby quickenberger » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:13 pm

Good plan on replacing instead of repairing. Some shops have liability waivers but I'm not sure that those would do a bit of good in today's litigious society.
There is a wrap used to keep rust controlled called petro wrap. https://www.amazon.com/Petrowrap-Anti-C ... B079BVG64Q
Its a sticky, waxy wrap used by a lot of local fishing boats to keep some of the steel hose ends from rusting too much. It does help but inevitably over time saltwater will win. That may help keep corrosion down some.

zigzag930
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby zigzag930 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:58 pm

Interestingly, a post from a user on THT identified the problem correctly, despite my bad diagnosis and incorrect information from Boston Whaler.  I didn't see this, but there was a short "damper" hose hidden inside the tube leading from the pump to the bilge.   Unfortunately, even after I found it, it was impossible for me to get it to separate from the longer hoses as it was frozen solid in rust.  I tried everything I know to get it loose including no-slip wrenches, heat, and long pipes to extend my leverage..

Boston Whaler diagrams did not show this damper, nor did the tech there know anything about it.  As I result, I picked up the new18' hose kit (which by the way does NOT include new helm gaskets).

I pulled new 18' hoses right to the helm today.   Now I'm wondering if Ineed that damper?  What exactly does it do?  They pump is in the back of the boat and this is a 210 Outrage.

Any comments on need for this hose?
Last edited by zigzag930 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jimh
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby jimh » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:46 pm

I have no real knowledge, but in a power hydraulic steering system a "damper" sounds like a component that might absorb a pressure wave that might occur when the boost pump first comes on. It would be something akin to the short tube extensions on hot and cold water outlets that feed a washing machine. They're there to absorb the sudden pressure change when the valve in the washing machine goes from full-on to full-off. That's my best guess.

Keep us up-dated on the progress and the process.

vze2gbs4
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby vze2gbs4 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:40 am

The damper hose was added to reduce a whining noise the VERADO steering pump system had it when introduced. When you steered the boat all you hear from the back was wheeeee-wheeeee. After a while [the noise] starts driving you nuts--at least in my case.

I have a spare one . When I replaced my steering pump it came with this part. Since I already had it I never used it. Let me know if you need it.I

That you could not separate the two hoses is unfortunate. You are probably tossing in the garbage aperfectly good hose.

I recommend drilling holes in the housing of that pump . Once water gets into the the sponge part that holds the pump and won't drain, expect eventual failure.

I never liked this VERADO set-up because it simply is NOT reliable. I had two failures on my VERADO-powered boats compared to none on any Seastar hydraulic or rack and pinion ones. [A failed VERADO steering system] brings you home but you need Superman power to steer the wheel without it.

Regarding [a post on another topic] about the moisture under the two jump seats hatches: I had the same problem on my 210. I figured out that problem was not a bad seal but no air circulation getting into that area; it will always sweat during temperature swings here in the northeast USA.

My problem was solved by simply adding a small rubber dot on bottom part of the seat so there was air circulation at all times. This is particularly important on the starboard side where the steering pump is located so it was staying dry.

Check the underneath edges of all hatches on your 210. On the 210 I had, there were de-laminations because Boston Whaler did very poor job not sealing the edges correctly or used insufficient resin during the lamination process when they were built. Most people would miss this since you open the hatch all the time, but you don't actually look at what is happening under the hatch

zigzag930
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby zigzag930 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:11 pm

vze2gbs4: Thanks for that information.

I left the house at 8:30 this morning and didn't see your post until just a few minutes ago (6pm). I would have bought that damper from you, had I known you had one. Unfortunately,I wound up purchasing one from my local dealer. The good news is that the entire boat is back together again.

As far as I can tell, everything is working. I still have a mess in the bilge to clean up and need to add a few zip ties back there, but them bulk of the job is completed successfully. I actually took the opportunity to clean up the console rigging a bit with zip ties.

Interestingly, the Mercury service manager came out and asked if I was able to get my old damper hose separated from the [high] pressure line. He said the dealer technicians could never manage to get them apart and always wound up having to replace the entire hose and damper set, just as I did. I will spray that connection with corrosion block from time to time, and I hope I won't have to make this repair again.

I appreciate your suggestion to add a drain hole in the power steering pump shell and will take care of that.

Also, thanks for the idea on the rear jump seat hatches. That is a simple thing to try and I'll do it this week. I may just leave themajar to see if that works to stop the condensation. Southwest Florida is always humid.

On the hatches, do you mean the fishbones and anchor hatches? Or, inspection plate hatches? I haven't noticed any problems on the hatches yet, but I will keep an eye on them.

Again, thanks for your information

J.

zigzag930
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby zigzag930 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:27 pm

The process of removing the power steering hoses was moderately difficult, but do-able for a good backyard mechanic that has access to a hot-tub to soak in after a day of squeezing into awkward positions and tight spaces.

To gain access to the console side of the hoses, I removed the radio (and mounting board) from the port side of the console, the starboard side battery and the forward mounted tackle box. I then removed the four screws that hold the helm in place. Next, there is a boot on the deck of the console which needs to be unscrewed, so you can rip out all the spray foam that seals the steering hoses where the pass through the deck. This is actually a pain in the butt.

Next I removed the two hoses from the helm and let it hang outside the console, while I worked on the pump side of things.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this boat was rigged with a steering damper which is attached between the helm and the pump at the pump side. It is virtually impossible to separate the damper from the hose leading forward, so plan to replace both--ouch, another $90. I removed the two pump side hoses and while my assistant held them over a jar, I blew through the hoses from the front to empty them of PS fluid, attempting to control the mess. Next, you will need to locate and cut about a dozen zip ties in the bilge area to release the power steering hoses from other bundles of wires that are held together in a bunch of places.

Pulling the new hoses was a matter of using Gorilla tape to tape the new hoses to the old hoses and pulling the one at a time. This is a two person job, requiring one person the guide and feed the hose from the console, as I pulled (moderately) from the stern. They actually come through farily easy, and lubricating them with a little WD40 helped.

After connecting all the new hoses up to the helm and the pump, I filled the boost pump reservoir. Then I had my assistant start the VERADO, so the pump would activate. As the fluid pumped into the empty hose, I kept adding fluid to the reservoir, keeping it topped off. This process appears to have bled off all the air in the system as far as I can tell. After running, I topped off for a few minutes, I turned the helm port and starboard a few times. Very smooth, no noise and no air bubbles appeared in the tank.

I believe this job is complete now, except for having to clean up a real mess of hydraulic fluid in the bilge.

Hope this helps anyone that may need to tackle this project on a 210 Outrage

vze2gbs4
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby vze2gbs4 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:01 pm

I replaced [two] and never had problem separating them . A bit of lube. A bit left. A bit right. More lube. Patience. And all over again until it moves.

I have no use for that hose so if it ever goes again contact me via email.

About anchor locker and two fish boxes: look at the edge. [Re-seal the fiberglass] if nothing protects water getting into it.

jimh
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby jimh » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:27 am

vze2gbs4 wrote:I replaced [two]...


What does "two" refer to? Hose sets?

jimh
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Re: 210 Outrage - Verado Power Steering Hose Replacement

Postby jimh » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:29 am

ZAG--thanks for the follow up narrative on the process of removing and replacing the power steering hoses from the helm pump at the console to the boost pump in a stern compartment of your 210 OUTRAGE boat. Based on the comment you mention from the Mercury service manager, replacement of these hoses sounds like a fairly common repair.

Congratulations on making a successful repair yourself. You will likely inspire others to attempt this.