2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
tomrollman
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2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby tomrollman » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:16 pm

I read jimh's excellent article outlining year model changes to E-TEC outboard engines at

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... anges.html

and found that my 2010 225 (E225DPXISE) had a change made to it that is most likely contributing to a major problem I am experiencing.

I purchased this motor two years ago new for use on my commercial salmon fishing boat here in Alaska. I had a 2006 model that I replaced that I had injector problems--another story. After about 40 hours last season (2015) it began to run VERY loud, and soot and scorching appeared right where the lower unit attaches to the motor. I took it to my local mechanic (600 miles by air or boat from nearest dealer) who dropped the lower unit and determined that the exhaust "boot" had melted. Not knowing what caused it, he took the one out of my old motor, installed it, and got me back on the water (with lost fishing time = lost income). It lasted about two days before melting again. I ran it the rest of the season that way because I had no choice.

I shipped it back to my dealer air freight and they begrudgingly repaired it under warranty, saying afterward that I was running it in adverse conditions and a cooling hose to the exhaust had become blocked with sediment causing it to overheat. We do run our outboards in shallow water a lot that includes running through mud and sand.

I have been running Johnson's and Evinrudes since 1993, this is my ninth outboard on three different boats, all but two purchased new from the same dealer. (120, 150, 115, 200, 115, 150e, 225e, 90e, 225e) I have never had a problem like this and neither have the numerous Yamahas, Hondas, Mercury's and Suzuki's there on the water on other boats.

I was interested to find in your article a 2010 model year change to the water plate:
"The water plate, a casting located in the upper inner exhaust housing, changed to a new design to eliminate the exhaust and propeller hub cooling water hole. The new design increases water pressure and improves power head cooling. An external water hose now supplies water to the exhaust and propeller hub. The external water hose supply can be seen on the aft face of the main casting of the power head, just below the "V6" cast-in emblem."

Do you think this is the problem? I am shipping it back to my dealer at considerable expense, again. Your thoughts? Thx
Tom

jimh
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby jimh » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:07 am

I have a 2010 model year E-TEC 225, and I have also had the exhaust lower inner housing melt slightly. See my remarks about this on the E-TEC OWNERS GROUP website.

http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/wat ... re-6925988

Since this happened with my 2010 engine, I can only presume that the change implemented in 2010 is not a guarantee of immunity to this problem. There are also a couple of other E-TEC owners who have reported this problem, although in a much more severe form than the melting I found on my engine.

tomrollman
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby tomrollman » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:49 pm

Thx Jim,

Mine was of the severe complete meltdown variety... I am afraid my dealer is going to pin this on me and my "misuse" of the motor. In reality it seems to be their design change to increase cooling that in effect has made the motors more susceptible to sediment clogging. Thoughts on this new wateer plate design? Starting in 2009 and continuing to present it looks like all big etecs have high-speed cooling holes in the lower unit on the front side of the torpedo. This is also a problem for me and the way I use mt motors... I may be looking at a new brand to repower in the future... Thoughts? BTW, these pix are from 2015, it looks a lot worse now, completely scorched on both sides.
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jimh
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby jimh » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:01 pm

If you are going to take an outboard engine gear case to a dealer and suggest that there was a defect in the original manufacturing of the gear case that has caused a problem that should be remedied at no cost to you under the terms of the warranty, it would be a good idea to clean up all the missing paint from the skeg, carefully smooth and prime with new marine aluminum primer, and repaint with several top coats of the OEM paint that you bought from a different dealer. Otherwise if you present a gear case with most of the paint worn off the skeg from running the engine in shallow water, the dealer might get the impression that a problem with engine cooling might be related to intrusion of sand and other sea-bottom debris into the cooling system due to the way the engine has been operated. And the same for the propeller--repaint it or get a new one.

The engine manufacturer's warranty really only covers failures due to a defect in original manufacturing, and a warranty is not an all-peril insurance policy that will remedy anything that goes wrong. If the engine overheated due to debris in the cooling system, and the skeg looks like the one in your pictures, there is a reasonable inference that perhaps the engine sucked in some debris in shallow water which reduced the flow of water in the cooling system.

On the 3.3-liter V6 E-TEC there is a hose that specifically provides cooling water to be sprayed down the inside of the midsection. Please look at the drawing from my article on E-TEC RIGGING at http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... ml#cooling which is found at

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/images/BRP/ETEC_WaterFlowRevised.png

There is a hose (which in the illustration does not have a numerical callout) exiting from the rear of the V-block marked with a yellow water-flow arrow that enters the midsection on the starboard side. This hose feeds cooling water to the inside of the midsection. It might be prudent to remove that hose and inspect it carefully for any obstructions. If some small pebbles or sand or shells have become lodged in that hose, the flow of cooling water into the inside of the midsection could be reduced, and that could lead to insufficient cooling of the exhaust lower inner housing.

To get to the lower end of the hose you may need to remove the lower side cowlings. They are plastic molded parts and take care with them. You can crack them if you over-tighten their fasteners; sometimes they become brittle from UV exposure, too.

The hose will likely be retained with Oetiker clamps. You have to cut them off. You can replace them with worm-screw or Jubilee clamps, or with Oetiker clamps, assuming you get some and have a pincer tool. For more on Oetiker clamps see this excellent thread from the OLD FORUM at

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/020693.html

You may be able to find the clamps at Home Depot, as the article above notes. The pincer tool is available for a very economical $13 from

https://www.kegoutlet.com/oetiker-clamp ... oCA5Lw_wcB

A fellow can never have too many specialized and obscure tools in his toolbox.

Jefecinco
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby Jefecinco » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:44 am

Have you considered plugging the nose cone water inlets? I have no idea if that would cause additional overheating but it could possibly decrease the amount of sand and debris entering the cooling system. If it would help the price is certainly attractive.
Butch

tomrollman
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby tomrollman » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:37 pm

Hi Butch. I plugged the lower water intake holes and still had the same [outcome]. As I feared, my dealer is pinning the whole [cause of the overheating problem] on me and my mistreatment of the motor. Fixing it is going to require pulling the powerhead--expensive--to clear all the supposed debris.

My dilemma: what to do with the E-TEC engine?

I rely on [the E-TEC engine] for my livelihood, but can't rely on it. I plan to raise as big a stink as I can.

Is it possible to talk directly to a tech at Bombardier?

I tried recently and was told "no." I talked to one before buying my first E-TEC, and I decided to [buy an E-TEC] because of what he said.

I may be looking at switching brands now.

Has anyone had any success going up the chain and getting results with Bombardier?

Acseatsri
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby Acseatsri » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:53 pm

The newer Yamaha motors have water inlets on the front of the nosecone as well. At low tide at my marina, we only have about 18-inches of water on a sandbar that we cross, and I believe the nosecone water inlets lend themselves to ingesting sand and debris. I believe these were a substitute for low water pickups on boats running jack plates and surface piercing propellers, but they created the problem above, as all the newer Yamaha owners at my marina deal with this [problem] which usually just results in a plugged [overboard confidence stream nozzle].

Seahorse
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby Seahorse » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:53 am

Be sure to include the engine serial number and the name of your servicing dealer in your correspondence

Customer Service - After Sales Support
BRP US Inc. / Marine Propulsion Systems,
After Sales Support,
P.O Box 597,
Sturtevant, WI 53177,
1- 844-345-4277

You can also email at brp.care@brp.com

conch
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Location: Florida Keys,Hawaii,Mississippi

Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby conch » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:04 am

Evinrude might suggest you try their E-TEC Jet Drive in a V6 configuration for shallow and rocky water operation.

Jefecinco
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby Jefecinco » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:52 am

From the picture of the lower unit it looks like a jet drive lower unit could be a good solution. I believe a jet drive lower unit can be retrofitted to the existing lower unit.

I wonder how well a jet drive impeller will withstand the wear from the sand and gravel in Tom's operating environment.
Butch

tomrollman
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby tomrollman » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:56 pm

Thank you for the responses. A jet unit is not an option, the loss of power would be significant and because I am using the motor on a commercial salmon fishing boat, I need to be able to plane out large loads of fish [as much as 5,000-lbs of catch] as well as tow my nets around. I have always loved the low-end torque of the two-stroke E-TEC engines compared to the 4-stroke Yamaha engines and others.

It just seems as if I am not going to be able to run the newer E-TEC any more, and I have a two-year-old motor that is worthless to me. I am not sure it is even worth having fixed--super frustrating.

jimh
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby jimh » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:20 pm

If you have been trying to get your commercial fishing boat on plane with 5,000-lbs of added load, I can understand how a single 225-HP outboard engine might not be the best choice.

What propeller pitch were you using on the E-TEC 225-HP engine?

Many reports of engine heat causing damage to the exhaust lower inner housing have been associated with the engine being lugged down with too much propeller pitch for the load on the boat. Perhaps your remedy is just to use a smaller pitch propeller.

tomrollman
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby tomrollman » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:38 pm

I am aware of that concern. I run a 17 pitch prop and empty it will turn over 6000 RPM. I rarely ever run over 5200. I have tried a 15 and a 13 and it over revs.

Seahorse
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby Seahorse » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:45 pm

tomrollman wrote:I am aware of that concern. I run a 17 pitch prop and empty it will turn over 6000 RPM. I rarely ever run over 5200. I have tried a 15 and a 13 and it over revs.


Have you removed the exhaust sensor nipple for inspection lately? If it is burned away, you may be lugging the motor. It may be a good idea to have the tach checked by your dealer using his laptop and the Evinrude diagnostic software tach feature.

How fast is your boat going at 6000 rpm with the 17" prop?

Jefecinco
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby Jefecinco » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:10 am

We don't know what boat Tom is using. Unless it has a flat bottom the use of twin engines could reduce the draft of the lower units by several inches. Of course the expense of buying operating twin engines would be considerable higher which is not helpful to a commercial waterman. Still, if twin engines would improve engine reliability it could actually cost less over the long term.

Hopefully Seahorses' recommendation will solve Tom's problem.
Butch

tomrollman
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby tomrollman » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:21 pm

At WOT empty my boat will top 40 MPH. Normally loaded, it will cruise at 25-35 MP at 4500-5200 RPM. I really don't think the exhaust overheat is a lugging down problem. The problem I believe is a design change that took place in 2009-2010 that cools the exhaust differently. Nose-cone water pick-ups were added then too. My older ETECs (2005 115 HP, 2007 150 HP, and 2006 225 HP never had these problems. Because of the shallow water we run in, it is not uncommon to suck in sand and have it clog the pisser, causing the overheat alarm to go off. The solution was to stop, unscrew the pisser/water flusher, restart the motor to blow everything out, reinstall and continue on. What is happening now, according to my dealer is this sand is clogging the exhaust cooling hoses/passages causing the exhaust to overheat, melting the exhaust "boot" and then sounding like a race car. The sand supposedly is severely clogged to the point where the head needs to be removed to clear it all out. From my standpoint, I now have an outboard that I can no longer use. I am probably going to get it fixed, then sell it. Unless I can figure out a workaround I will be switching brands. My fellow fishermen running blue, silver, and black motors in the EXACT same conditions are not having this problem. I would consider buying a G2 if I someone could tell me I wouldn't have a similar problem. Is this just a 2010 225 problem/concern, or is it a 2010 thru current motors change that can't tolerate sand like the old motors could?

Seahorse
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Re: 2010 E-TEC 225 Exhaust Overheat

Postby Seahorse » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:22 pm

Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper and quicker to replace the M2 gearcase with an M1 gearcase which does not have the forward open water inlet holes?

i will bet you could find CWers here and even dealers who who do a swap with you