Unfortunately, one of the bunks on my new float-on trailer damaged the outer lip of the drain tube that extends thru the hull from the bow anchor locker on my 1978 OUTRAVE V-20. After reading the excellent reference on replacing this brass drain tube, I have a three questions:
--is it best to anneal the brass tube by slow-cooling per the Q12 reference, or by quenching it in water per Jeff's thread?
--should the rolled-lip be formed with the new brass tube in the tube passage per the Q12 reference, or formed outside the passage and then "forcing the tube back in the hole" per Jeff's thread?
--has anyone else seen a drain tube lip damaged by a trailer bunk?
I would appreciate any suggested answers or comments. Thanks--mag
1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
The purpose of annealing the brass is to soften it. When you heat the brass and allow it to cool, it should become softer and more easily worked. The rapid cooling with water quenching will stop the heat from spreading to other areas of the brass. This may be important if your are working with brass rifle cartridges, because you don't want all of the cartridge to soften. With drain tubes I don't think it makes any difference. If you are in a hurry, then water quenching may be faster.
If you try both, report on any difference in the outcome.
If you try both, report on any difference in the outcome.
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
Regarding drain tubes and trailer bunks: usually the bunks are located so they don't come in contact with the hull drains. Are your trailer bunks carpeted? Or does your trailer have bunks with a hard plastic surface?
If the drain is on the hull bottom and close to the transom, you could cut a relief in the bunk to create more clearance.
Also, usually the leading edge of the hull drain is protected by a modified clam shell vent. That should also help fend off any trailer bunk trying to hit the drain.
If the drain is on the hull bottom and close to the transom, you could cut a relief in the bunk to create more clearance.
Also, usually the leading edge of the hull drain is protected by a modified clam shell vent. That should also help fend off any trailer bunk trying to hit the drain.
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
Re how to form the lip, even if you form one lip with the tube not installed, you are going to have to form the other lip after you install the lip.
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
Jim, thanks for your comments. It makes sense to roll the second edge of the brass-tube after inserting it into the tube-passage. I was confused about Jeff's comment to force the tube back thru the hole.
The bunks on my trailer are carpeted, and these bunks can only contact the drain-tube-lip by sliding over it when the boat is launched or retrieved from the trailer. I might be able to adjust the bunks to minimize the chance of this contact, or I could take more care when launching to ensure the boat always floats off the trailer without sliding.
The drain for this bow-anchor-locker in my boat does not have a clam-shell-vent. The sump drain in my boat does have a clam-shell-vent, however that drain is located far enough AFT that it does not interfere with the trailer bunks. Thanks again. --mag
The bunks on my trailer are carpeted, and these bunks can only contact the drain-tube-lip by sliding over it when the boat is launched or retrieved from the trailer. I might be able to adjust the bunks to minimize the chance of this contact, or I could take more care when launching to ensure the boat always floats off the trailer without sliding.
The drain for this bow-anchor-locker in my boat does not have a clam-shell-vent. The sump drain in my boat does have a clam-shell-vent, however that drain is located far enough AFT that it does not interfere with the trailer bunks. Thanks again. --mag
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
The clam shell vent on the leading edge of the through-hull drain is only found on drains that will be under water when the boat is running at speed.
Usually the carpet on a bunk is more easily compressed than the brass of the drain. Perhaps you need to slightly move the bunks inward or outward so they bunks do not end up right under the drain. On my boat the drain winds up just adjacent to the bunk when the boat is properly loaded on the trailer. So far, since 1992, no damage to the drains.
Usually the carpet on a bunk is more easily compressed than the brass of the drain. Perhaps you need to slightly move the bunks inward or outward so they bunks do not end up right under the drain. On my boat the drain winds up just adjacent to the bunk when the boat is properly loaded on the trailer. So far, since 1992, no damage to the drains.
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
Now it makes sense: at speed the thru-hull drain in the bow-anchor-locker is probably not under water, hence no need for the clam-shell vent.
I removed the old brass drain tube. There was some wet foam and no wood in this area of the hull. The foam is not tight to the hole. There is about a 1-inch gap between the hole and foam in some places. My plan is to fill this gap with 4200 sealant, unless there is better idea.
I heated the new brass drain tube (McMaster-Carr p/n 8950K791), slow cooled, then rolled the first edge per the instructions in the link (http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q12). Worked perfectly.
I will report back after installing the tube and rolling the second edge.
It looks like the damage to the old drain tube was caused when I launched by hitting the brakes to slide with the boat off the trailer before it was floating. I might be able to adjust the bunks inward for more clearance from the drain. When the boat is properly loaded on the trailer, the drain is clear of the bunks.
Thanks again for the comments. --mag
I removed the old brass drain tube. There was some wet foam and no wood in this area of the hull. The foam is not tight to the hole. There is about a 1-inch gap between the hole and foam in some places. My plan is to fill this gap with 4200 sealant, unless there is better idea.
I heated the new brass drain tube (McMaster-Carr p/n 8950K791), slow cooled, then rolled the first edge per the instructions in the link (http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q12). Worked perfectly.
I will report back after installing the tube and rolling the second edge.
It looks like the damage to the old drain tube was caused when I launched by hitting the brakes to slide with the boat off the trailer before it was floating. I might be able to adjust the bunks inward for more clearance from the drain. When the boat is properly loaded on the trailer, the drain is clear of the bunks.
Thanks again for the comments. --mag
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
Re annealing brass tubing: the referenced annealing procedure is incorrect. To anneal brass tubing, heat it to a cherry red color, then quench it in water. This is the exact opposite procedure you would use to anneal steel. Annealing steel requires heating to cherry red followed by a slow cooling process.
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
The best method for heating for annealing is probably to use a thermometer, like an infrared thermometer, and heat to a specific temperature. Consult another authority for the exact temperature. Advice re brass varies all over the map.
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
Whatever, but the procedure is wrong. Google it and you'll see. Nowhere does it suggest using your method. Also checked with a metallurgist friend I used to work with, same answer. The quenching temperature isn't critical as long as it's cherry red when you quench it.
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
To access the importance of the annealing process, I ran a test case. I rolled one edge of a test sample without using any annealing. The rolled edge seems perfect as was the previous one that used annealing with air cooling. Perhaps this type 260 brass from McMaster has sufficient ductility without annealing. Here is a picture of the rolled edge:
Brass_tube_rolled_edge_.pdf- (210.98 KiB) Downloaded 274 times
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
Acseatsri wrote:Whatever, but the procedure is wrong. Google it and you'll see.
I have searched a number of places for annealing brass and found all sorts of contradicting results. Please feel free to adopt any method you think is best. The only agreement among all the methods I have found is that the heating must be to a particular temperature region. The speed of the cooling is not consistently recommended. If you can cite some authority like https://www.astm.org with their published recommendation for annealing the brass material used in drain tubes, please do so. But please don't tell me "to Google it." If you want to make a point, you will have to "Google It" yourself. Asking me to find proof of your point of view is not an effective way to make an argument. I really have little interesting in proving you right and myself wrong.
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
mag wrote:To access the importance of the annealing process, I ran a test case.
Thanks for the report of your test results. They are most interesting.
Re: 1978 Outrage V-20 Drain Tube Replacement
I installed the drain tube and rolled the top edge. The drain tube was nearly perpendicular to the hull on the bottom side, but about 10-deg off perpendicular to the deck on top side. I was able to use the flange-tool for both rolled-edges but had to finish the top edge with a hammer and wooden-dowel. It looks to be sealed well at both ends using 3M4200 [Adhesive Sealant] and O-rings. Thanks again for the comments. Replacing the next one (in the sump area) should be easier.