Re-power with Electronic Remote Throttle and Shift

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
mkelly
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:31 pm

Re-power with Electronic Remote Throttle and Shift

Postby mkelly » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:05 pm

[I am ] re-powering my [1994] Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 19 II with a Yamaha 200 HP four-stroke-cycle engine, the in-line four cylinder version. I believe this model come with the option for or just comes with electronic controls. This is new to me. I wonder if anyone has experience with this option. Is it worth it in your opinion? I have friends with larger boats and electronic controls; they are fantastic. [I am] just not sure how it translates to the a 19-foot center console boat. [Having electronic remote throttle and shift controls] could be a headache and another thing to go wrong. [Or are electronic remote throttle and shift controls] just fantastic, as was the advent of hydraulic steering many years ago?

flymo
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:58 pm

Re: Re-power with Electronic Remote Throttle and Shift

Postby flymo » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:36 am

I don't know the answer. I would ask whether the new controls have a positive stop at neutral, to prevent inadvertently slipping into reverse when stopping suddenly. The old Yamaha mechanical controls had this feature, but some other manufacturer's controls do not, and I am not sure about the new Yamaha controls. It is an important feature and prevents a tiny mistake destroying your motor.

Tim

conch
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:43 am
Location: Florida Keys,Hawaii,Mississippi

Re: Re-power with Electronic Remote Throttle and Shift

Postby conch » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:04 am

Electronic controls were installed along with my recent re-power. The Yamaha controls are very nice and have easily adjusted friction controls. I would not go back to cables. For your application since you have a choice to go electronic or not,it may be more about price. In a power matched system the controls carry a warranty that matches the engine and gauges.
Would you choose an automatic vs manual automobile transmission because you might hit reverse? Take a test ride or two before you decide.
Chuck

flymo
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:58 pm

Re: Re-power with Electronic Remote Throttle and Shift

Postby flymo » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:47 am

Chuck, I am inferring from your message that there is no actual lock in neutral like the old mechanical controls. Is there instead a strong, positive detent at neutral, or is it adjustable in some way? That would be sufficient, in my opinion. I frequently drive my sister-in-law's 18 with an aftermarket throttle that does not have any tactile feedback that you're in neutral, and it's not good--a safety problem, in my opinion. And I have read horror stories about people inadvertently dropping their motor into reverse, and then hydrolocking and destroying it. Best avoided, I think!

Tim

porthole
Posts: 645
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:57 pm
Location: LSD Lower Slower Delaware

Re: Re-power with Electronic Remote Throttle and Shift

Postby porthole » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:53 am

Well I don't know about the outboard electronic controls, but with two different twin diesel inboard upgrades I was involved with it is impossible to go from forward to reverse without stopping in the neutral zone, the electronics will not allow it. The controls will go, but the the signal will not.
Fly by wire [Electronic throttle and shift with intelligence in the control systelm] [system] is the future, and for the most part works great, along as you have some sort of backup.

How do you hydrolock an engine going from forward to reverse?
Last edited by porthole on Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF

flymo
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:58 pm

Re: Re-power with Electronic Remote Throttle and Shift

Postby flymo » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:43 pm

porthole wrote:How do you hydrolock an engine going from forward to reverse?


http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/021222.html

That article also clarifies that the Yamaha controls have adjustable friction, but not an adjustable detent.

[Moderator's comment: Also see a more recent discussion re electronic controls and hydro lock problems.--jimh]

jimh
Posts: 11673
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Re-power with Electronic Remote Throttle and Shift

Postby jimh » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:25 pm

I do not see the size of the boat as having an influence on the decision to use electronic remote throttle and shift controls. The price of the controls is probably the more important aspect of the decision. Electronic throttle and shift controls with some sort of intelligence are usually an expensive upgrade from the traditional mechanically linked controls.

I have electronic throttle and shift controls for my E-TEC 225-HP engine. They are a very nice upgrade over the standard controls, and I never thought the standard controls for Evinrude were lacking in any way. Having run a number of boats with different brands of mechanically linked remote controls, the Evinrude mechanical controls I had were the best I had experienced. However, when I changed to electronic remote throttle and shift controls, the improvement was very noticeable and significant.

I have not experimented with making a panic emergency shift from full ahead in forward to reverse, but I hope that the supervisory system might help avoid some damage.

Generally the amount of effort that must be applied to move the lever of an electronic control is much less than with mechanical controls, and, after using the electronic controls for a while, you soon learn that you do not need to make a sudden and forceful movement of the levers at any time. I would think that even in an unusual situation that one would not make a wild movement of the throttle and shift lever.

I have been using the Evinrude ICON electronic throttle and shift controls now for four or five years, and I have never experienced any unusual operation with them. I have never had any unintended shift or gear clash. Other than the added cost, I do not find there is anything not to like about them.

The typical electronic throttle and shift controls usually operate a servo motor or actuator that moves the linkages of a conventional gearshift lever and engine throttle lever, so the engine is still controlled by those mechanical movements. In some sort of emergency you could probably jury-rig some sort of mechanical operation of those levers if a problem occurred with the electronic actuators.

Electronics remote throttle and shift controls are now mainstream options on many brands of outboard engine and on some models are mandatory. I don't think these systems would be out there if there were a very high chance for failure. They're probably well-engineered and tested.

porthole
Posts: 645
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:57 pm
Location: LSD Lower Slower Delaware

Re: Re-power with Electronic Remote Throttle and Shift

Postby porthole » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:52 pm

flymo wrote:
porthole wrote:How do you hydrolock an engine going from forward to reverse?


http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/021222.html


Best I can tell after reading the entire thread is that the water ingestion was caused by the engine stalling, not what kind of engine controls it had.
And in that scenario it was not a simple "forward to reverse" without a neutral stop.
Last edited by porthole on Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF

flymo
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:58 pm

Re: Re-power with Electronic Remote Throttle and Shift

Postby flymo » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:19 am

Duane, my understanding, from reading that thread and some others, is that the mechanism works as follows:

1) boat is moving forward and operator needs to stop suddenly
2) operator pulls back to neutral but goes just past it into reverse
3) motor stalls as it's at idle speed with a lot of backwards pressure on the prop from the forward motion
4) due to the forward motion, the prop spins backwards, turning the motor into a pump and pulling water up the exhaust and into one or more cylinders
5) operator tries to restart the motor with water in the cylinders and breaks a connecting rod.

A neutral stop does not completely prevent going into reverse in step 2, just makes it a lot less likely.

This has never happened to me, and I hope it never does, but I have piloted one or two boats without a very positive neutral stop and the scenario does not seem all that unlikely. Maybe the new controls prevent this electronically somehow?