15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
Jefecinco
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:35 pm
Location: Gulf Shores, AL

Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby Jefecinco » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:30 am

We have the standard Uflex hydraulic steering on our 135HP Verado powered 190 Montauk. We have enjoyed the steering system for about seven years. I've had to replace a seal in the cylinder but otherwise have had no problems.

Our only complaint is we have not been able to establish a "king post" or a single spoke that can always be used as the dead ahead steering wheel position when centered. With cable steering I usually wrap some cord around the wheel at the king post so I can tell when the engine is perfectly centered by feel. Around the launch ramp, docks and other tight maneuvering situations I feel far more secure knowing where the engine is pointing without having to look behind. If you know of a way to establish a king post with hydraulic steering please post it.
Butch

dtmackey
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby dtmackey » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:01 pm

Jefecinco wrote:We have the standard Uflex hydraulic steering on our 135HP Verado powered 190 Montauk. We have enjoyed the steering system for about seven years. I've had to replace a seal in the cylinder but otherwise have had no problems.

Our only complaint is we have not been able to establish a "king post" or a single spoke that can always be used as the dead ahead steering wheel position when centered. With cable steering I usually wrap some cord around the wheel at the king post so I can tell when the engine is perfectly centered by feel. Around the launch ramp, docks and other tight maneuvering situations I feel far more secure knowing where the engine is pointing without having to look behind. If you know of a way to establish a king post with hydraulic steering please post it.


Might be a good subject to break out to a separate thread, but before that's done I will comment on what could be a factor (or two) with your system.

Hydraulic systems are very finicky to remove air bubbles and purging them all out is not an easy task. The biggest concern is the helm is above the cylinder and you are trying to push the air down to be bled out the cylinder and the bubbles what to float up to the helm. I'd suggest having someone power bleed the system. The other concern could be sticky bypass valves from contamination and those are easy to remove and clean, but requires a purge.

I'm not sure you can have a perfect hydraulic system where TDC of the wheel remains the same. The bypass valves can throw off the wheel center if the wheel is cranked beyond the systems limited travel and this could also impact the wheel TDC position.

D-

Jefecinco
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:35 pm
Location: Gulf Shores, AL

Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby Jefecinco » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:47 am

DT,

Thank you. I went to considerable trouble to refill and bleed the system when I replaced the cylinder seal. I went through the process three times before satisfying myself that the system was air free. I was working alone using plastic bottles taped to the inner transom with clear plastic hoses running from the bleeder valves into hydraulic fluid. I also had tubing running from the fill port on the console top to a nipple on an inverted fluid supply bottle taped to the windshield upper railing.

The next time I have the Verado serviced I'll have the power bleeding done. When working alone it's easy to miss a few bubbles especially when it's hot and sweat is running into your eyes.
Butch

dtmackey
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby dtmackey » Fri May 31, 2019 10:01 pm

Took the boat for a ride last week and the dead spot in the cable steering drove me nuts and motivated me to start installing the Baystar system.


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Fig. 1. Pulled the console and associated wiring and now able to clean up a few things I decided to change.


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Fig. 2. Old below and new Baystar cylinder installed, no plumbing yet.

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Fig. 3. I used a backmount kit to reduce steering wheel protrusion since the helm pump extends out a good bit.


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Fig. 4. Once installed it is the same fit as the cable system it replaces.

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Fig. 5. View of the helm. Still need to mount console and tidy up a few things.

wiringUnderConsole.png
Fig. 6. View of helm rotated to normal orientation.
wiringUnderConsole.png (74.54 KiB) Viewed 13012 times


I need to figure out if I can run the hoses in the rigging tube, or if they are too stiff and need to be run another way.

D-

Guitarfish
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:54 pm

Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby Guitarfish » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:37 am

Your photo work log has resolved a few problems I've run into during my Menemsha 'clean up'. Now, conveniently for myself, you are addressing my latest thoughts involving hydraulic steering. So thank you for that.

After an incredible amount of labor spent on my boat it looks about 10% as nice as yours. I have a cheapy table saw that has a fence with a mind of its own, and almost no wood working ability personally. I rebuilt my new console and will be pleased if it is 'clean' looking when complete. I have mastered the lumpy, runny finish look completely. It does have the wet look at least.

At this point I am a few weeks away from turning to the engine repaint and trim addition. I have done a polish and clean of the interior only as I want to fish out of the boat without worry.

My compliments on your skills. I am mildly envious.

dtmackey
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby dtmackey » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 pm

Thanks for the kind words Guitarfish.

Steering is installed and took it for a ride today and this was a very worthwhile upgrade. The dead spot in the steering is gone and there is zero torque steer in the wheel with a noticeable reduction in steering input. Very pleased with the results.

Steering wheel with the recessed mount kit is the same as the cable teleflex.
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I ran the 2 hydraulic lines on the inside where as the cable steering ran on the outside.
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The hydraulic lines run through the rigging tube, so there is only one line (the rigging tube) that carries everything to the motor.
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The lines in the kit are rigid and cut to length, the unfortunate part is they are not as flexible to make tight bends, so after covering in split loom the engine side of the rigging looks like an octopus, but it's rigged and protected from the UV.
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I'm done for now with this boat and will enjoy as the dingy to our larger boat and also serving as a trailer queen to trailer and explore other areas.

D-

dtmackey
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Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby dtmackey » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:14 pm

My son was moving the lawnmower in the garage and bumped the trailer light and cracked the lens. There's also been a concern of mine that when trailering the lights are very low and not within direct sight of following cars, so I decided that I'd install guide-ons and LED pole lights.

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I cut the poles so they are not too high and launched today and they stay plenty far out of the water. I did not use the mounting system they came with a drilled them directly into the trailer and used 3/8 stainless screws and they are solid. I also coated all mating surfaces with grease and sealed all connectors in silicon.

Another thing I wanted was a radio, but didn't want to install a system, so I grabbed a JBL bluetooth speaker that is waterproof and syncs to my phone and has amazing sound. There is a rubber foot on the bottom and it stays put on the console, but for big waves, I remove and store.

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D-

dtmackey
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Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Matching Cornhole Boards

Postby dtmackey » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:33 pm

Since the Whaler rehab, I've had the desire to build a set of cornhole boards with the same look at the Whaler interior. About 2 months ago, my wife came home from a fundraiser planning meeting for the private school my daughter attends and she informed me that she volunteered me to build a set to donate.

It didn't take me long to purchase the wood and start the lamination process and I made 2 sets, 1 to donate to the school and another for myself.

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Pretty close to the Whaler interior.

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D-

CactusEd
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Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:37 am

Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby CactusEd » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:40 am

Absolutely stellar planning and workmanship. I just brought home a Sport 15, and this thread is inspirational. Thanks.
1980 Sport 15 side console - 2016 Mercury 60 ELPT

dtmackey
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby dtmackey » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:13 pm

CactusEd wrote:Absolutely stellar planning and workmanship. I just brought home a Sport 15, and this thread is inspirational. Thanks.


Thank you for the kind words. Over the summer my son shot some drone vid of the restoration pics and running around a local river. I though I put this in the restoration thread, but couldn't find it, so here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hELY0-aRwU

Boat runs 42.5 - 43mph on GPS. I could raise the motor one more notch and probably go back to a 19' pitch prop for a little more, but this is a good all around setup.

I've recently acquired a Yamaha VMAX 150 20" motor and also a 200 Yamaha outboard and have been temped to build a fun motor to trial on the Whaler. for a day in the flat back bays to see how it'd run. More to follow on that in the spring since I'm in winter mode now.

D-

dtmackey
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Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby dtmackey » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:10 am

After a crazy year from health reasons and Covid restictions, Santa showed up a little early with a new repower gift for the Whaler,

Brand new Yamaha F70.

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Hydraulic jackplate, TH Marine Microjacker.

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I'll install sometime in April/May timeframe and also go with a new control box and square Command Link guage that displays tach, oil pressure, temp and water pressure, but I beleive I need to run the NEMA buss that Yamaha offers to get the additional functionality from the guage. The prop from my previous Yamaha should be the correct pitch.

D-

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Phil T
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Location: NYC then MA, NY, ME,DC,ME, now Kentucky

Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby Phil T » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:58 am

When you have a chance can you explain the selection of the jackplate.

Why add one? Pros, cons?
Which models did you investigate?
Why this brand/model?
What will you do to offset the added stern weight?

Thanks Dave.
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

dtmackey
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby dtmackey » Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:07 pm

Phil T wrote:When you have a chance can you explain the selection of the jackplate.

Why add one? Pros, cons?
Which models did you investigate?
Why this brand/model?
What will you do to offset the added stern weight?

Thanks Dave.


Hi Phil,

Great questions and I thought about this quite a bit before buying a jack plate, since my old Yamaha was a perfect running engine, but I like to try new things. To answer your questions:

1. Why add one? Anytime you can lift the motor higher you gain efficiency by reduced drag. The problem is when setting the motor to high on some transoms is you can lose the prop bite when the motor is too high or in corners, but in straitline running it's ideal, so it pushed me toward a jackplate to get the best of both worlds. A 15' Whaler with the 70 Yami 4S and jackplate runs 47mph and I beleive you were part of those conversations over on EBW with Rafe and others sharing pics. The 15 hull even with the motor mounted on the top hole can still have the motor raised an ADDITIONAL 3- 4" when on plane, which can allow you to run in skinny waters. At idle you can also jack the motor pretty high, again adding shallow water use. The motor can be jacked an additional 5" above the normal use of the 3rd mounting hole. I'm also running hydraulic steering and all rigging through a rigging tide, so there's no concern of cable stretch and restraint needed.

2. Which models did you investigate? The two biggest players seem to be CMC and TH Marine. The CMC hydraulic brackets are heavier and seem to target high horsepower applications, so this ruled CMC out pretty quick. TH Marine makes a perfect jackplate called the Microjacker and it weighs 23 lbs, about the same as 3.6 gallons of gas.

3. Why this brand/model? Reputation, weight, something to play with.

3. What will you do to offset the added stern weight? I have about 100# of lead that has been kicking around for years. Based on the experience of others, I doubt I will need to use the lead for the forward compartment, but I have that option. A small amount of weight that far forward would make bigger differece. The offset is 4" which is minimal, the added weight of the Yami 4S is about 20", so I'm still far lighter than running an Etec 75.

Here are some pics of 15' Whaler running jackplates and you can see how high they run.

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I'm excited to start rigging the new motor and jackplate.

D-

TFrere
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Location: Lafayette, LA

Re: Affect of Engine Mounting Height on Stability

Postby TFrere » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:55 pm

Q1: Do you have to lower the engine in turns?

Q2: Have you done any modifications to the hull to make it more stable?

Q3: What propeller are you running?

I also own a 1985 SPORT 15; it has a 2014 Yamaha F70. Boat speed at full throttle is 43-MPH. The engine is two-holes-up. The propeller is a PowerTech SCD3 17-pitch. The boat becomes a bit squirrelly above 40-MPH.
1985 15’ Sport with Yamaha F70

dtmackey
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Re: Affect of Engine Mounting Height on Stability

Postby dtmackey » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:07 am

TFrere wrote:Q1: Do you have to lower the engine in turns?

In wide sweeping turns it should be fine, but in tighter turns you would drop the motor a little bit.

TFrere wrote:Q2: Have you done any modifications to the hull to make it more stable?

My boat is currently stable and ran 42.5mph with the Yamaha 2 stroke 70. Based on input from others with the same boat and motor combo I do not expect any concerns with stability.

TFrere wrote:Q3: What propeller are you running?

Purchased a Powertech SCD3 19" based on the input from others with the same boat/motor combo

I also own a 1985 SPORT 15; it has a 2014 Yamaha F70. Boat speed at full throttle is 43-MPH. The engine is two-holes-up. The propeller is a PowerTech SCD3 17-pitch. The boat becomes a bit squirrelly above 40-MPH.[/quote]

Until I get the new engine motor installed, I'm sharing input from three other people with the same boat and motor combination. Right now things are on hold because I found another 15-footer, a center console which is the one I've desired for years had been but unable to find. If all goes well, it should follow me home tomorrow and the F70 will be mounted on that hull and my current 15-footer will be for sale.

D-

biggiefl
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Re: 15 Whaler Super Sport Project - Baystar Steering

Postby biggiefl » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:06 am

Don't fool yourself. I had a 15' center console with bottom paint and a 70hp Johnson jacked so high you could see the trim pump over the transom. I ran a custom OMC SST 20" prop and would do 48-49 WOT per GPS. She was squirrely as all get out. I would have to pull the throttle back and nail it to get out of the chine walk. It would shoot a 6' high rooster tail that probably went 40-50' behind the boat. It was sick to say the least. It is NOT going to handle like it does at 42.5mph. Wear the safety lanyard!
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).