210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

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210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Thebug » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:01 pm

Planning to tow [a Boston Whaler 210 MONTAUK] behind sportfish. There is a [bow eye]. Do I need something more for my plan?

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:38 am

Usually a Boston Whaler 210 MONTAUK will have a bow eye fitting as a standard accessory. Does your 210 MONTAUK have something other than the standard bow eye fitting?

At what speed do you plan to tow the Boston Whaler 210 MONTAUK behind another boat? I think if you plan to tow the 210 MONTAUK at a planing speed, you should get advice from Boston Whaler. The standard bow eye fitting might not be designed for carrying that load.

In any case, advice from Boston Whaler is probably more authoritative than anecdotal advice you might get in response here on this topic, and I encourage you to solicit advice from them.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Jefecinco » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:46 am

You almost certainly need to use more than the [standard bow eye fitting] if you intend to tow much above idle speed in calm water. A towing harness would be a good place to start. I would contact Boston Whaler for suggestions. I've seen some larger center consoles towed behind yachts and they all appeared to have a heavy duty reinforced towing [bow eye fitting]. If you intend to transfer people to and from the Montauk from the yacht you may need to make some modifications. That would be dependent upon the cockpit arrangement of the yacht and spacing of cleats. Will the transfers only be done in calm conditions, etc.? A lot of factors will be at play.
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Dutchman » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:45 am

A boat that size I would not tow from a single bow eye; you must use a C-bridle with a connection that can slide on the bridle in order to keep tension the same at your starboard and port tie-offs. Preferably the side bow cleats.
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby porthole » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:29 am

Spent over 20 years working for a TowBoatUS tower.

If a boat has a bow eye, we use that. Small boat bow eyes are supposed to be able to hold the boat vertical.

Cleats on bigger boats.

The problem with cleats are the lack of through bolting or backing plates.

Of course with any of the hardware, proper installation and no defects is important. If you are going to do any substantial amount of towing, the bow eye should be pulled and inspected for corrosion.

If using a bridle it goes on the two front cleats, not side cleats.

Towers do not use some type of sliding ring.

The Bridle legs are long enough to equal the stress.

The tow on open water needs to be kept "in step", meaning that both boats are either on top of the wave or in between them.

Sea conditions dictate length of the towline. 100-200 feet is not uncommon in calm seas, but we carried 600' or more depending on the towboat.

Longer tow line is better then a shorter tow line.

But, once in safe water we tighten it up.

Depending on how well your boat tows, outboard either in or out of the water. A boat that yaws around a lot can be stabilized with the outboard.

But outboards that don't stay put cause all kinds of havoc.

We do not use 3 strand nylon.

Typical tow speed was between 6-8 knots.

If you look hard enough, you can find a USCG grid of towing speeds for different sea states and boat sizes (both towboat and towed vessel).
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Phil T » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:51 pm

Boston Whaler has been offering a "tow eye" as an option on many models.

Looks like this:
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby kwik_wurk » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:20 pm

I towed a classic Montauk (much smaller boat that a 210) all over the place with a 43' boat. I have a couple items, and a few lessons--not sure what your experience is, so hopefully my comments are [not] annoying.

The classic Montauk had a two part bridle, bow eye to norman pin. Everything terminated to soft rope shackle.

Do NOT use 3 strand nylon or any other high stretch rope. The more the rope stretches, the more energy it stores, and if it snaps, look out. Use Dyneema solid core or low stretch equivalent.

Setup a secondary line that rests inside the boat so that if the boat breaks away, you can grab the secondary line with a pole (or similar). Basically, imagine the boat adrift, with no bridle. If there is any sort of wind and wave action, a boat to boat transfer is not fun.

Make fixed length lines for bringing the boat along side, and so that you're not trying to tie knots when trying to secure the Montauk. And mark the [fender] placements and heights. Spring lines are critical for side towing.

Basically, when you bring the boat along side to enter a marina or drop anchor, securing the boat aside should be simple and quick. I single-handed my combination all the time, leaving the marina with Montauk along side, dropping it back tow outside the breakwater, and retrieving along side. All done because I made everything to length and sole purposed. It's not a fun task in snotty weather bring the boat along side, when after a few minutes of drifting both boats are abeam the waves, and rolling.

In calm waters you can tow on the [third or forth stern wave in the towing boat's wake] such that the boat rides the swell, but don't do it if you're trying to figure out the setup from scratch. But I found it to work with minimal yawl (in calm waters).

From lessons learned:

--secure the anchor very very well. I had an instance I came across a nasty rip and watched the Montauk disappear in six-foot standing waves with five-foot spacing with 30-knots of wind off the bow. The Montauk was slamming massively (worst I had every seen), with the bow hatch swinging open/close and anchor slamming. Luckily I keep protective covers on all the corners of the anchor, so the damage was minimal. However had it jumped out of the fwd hatch/hold, and landed on the deck, then it would have been a different story;

--have an automatic float/bilge pump;

--leave the keys in the boat, in the ignition. I used a spare, that had no float, so just a single key.

My tow ropes were kinda like sectioned water ski ropes, and I used them for other stuff. I had 25, 50, 75, and 100-foot lengths. I always started with the 75-foot and had the 25-foot connected, but coiled inside the transom. With bridles and such my maximum distance was 275-feet. I don't think I ever went that far out.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Ridge Runner » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:56 pm

As per Phil's comments and picture, Whaler sells (as a build option) an Bow Tow Eye option for $1,318.00 for the 210 Montauk - I would not attempt long distance towing or towing on a regular basis with just the standard bow eye. The weight of a 210 Montauk will be in the 3,700-lbs range. I would also probably not tow a 210 Montauk with a T-Top. I would imagine that would add considerable drag and stress.
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:02 pm

I know that the standard fitting on a Boston Whaler is a bow eye. I have heard of Boston Whaler fitting specialty fittings on the bow stem in order to permit the boat to be towed at high speeds. Usually this upgrade is a significant added cost and is fitted to the boat during its construction at the factory, and, if a boat were ordered with that fitting, the dealer or owner placing the order would probably be aware of it because of the added cost of the specialty fitting.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby ConB » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:18 pm

Last summer a 165' motor yacht went past my home on Suttons Bay and they were towing a 40' center console tender.

It's just the difference between men and boys, eh.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Ridge Runner » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:58 pm

Phil's picture is the actual picture of the Boston Whaler build option that Boston Whaler calls " Bow Tow Eye" which is offered as an $1,318 option on the 210 Montauk. It seems this may also be retro fitted. http://www.toweye.com/ lists Boston Whaler as one of the boat buiders that uses its products. There is also some good information on their site about towing and bridle set-up: http://www.toweye.com/towrigsetup.html
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:10 am

Ridge'--Thanks for the price data.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Dutchman » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:42 am

Cleats should be designed to make fast a [line] in any weather, a standard bow eye is not.

Towing behind a sports fisherman is not done at 6 to 8 knots; hence you don't just use a bow eye unless specifically designed for it like the one Phil showed.

I'm not a professional boat tower but have towed many boats in my 45 years of boating, from 12-footers to 48-foot boats. Pulling somebody to safety on calm water was always done with just a single no-stretch line made fast to one aft point and one bow point. When pulling in inclement and wavy weather I always use a bridle from the tow-boat or the towed boat. Never had a line break and the towed boat followed straight.

These were of course not at planing speeds that I assume the sports fisherman will be towing at.
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:28 am

A number of unusual terms have been used and not explained. I need more explanation on these terms:

--C-type bridle; as compared to A-type and B-type? What are these and where are they illustrated?

--USCG grid of towing speeds; has the USCG tested a 210 MONTAUK for towing at various speeds?

--"Small boat bow eyes are supposed to be able to hold the boat vertical."--Really? Where is this codified in any federal regulation? I doubt it is.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:34 am

That Boston Whaler offers an optional and rather expensive upgraded fitting for the bow eye of a 210 MONTAUK in order to tow the boat from the bow eye seem to me to be indicative that the standard bow eye fitting is not recommended by Boston Whaler to be used for towing.

As already twice recommended, an owner of a 210 MONTAUK planning to tow it at planing speeds behind a much larger boat should contact Boston Whaler for advice.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Thebug » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:39 am

Forgive me for using the wrong term, I guess I should have called it bow eye.

[Thanks for the clarification. I deleted all references to the wrong term so as not to memorialize the misuse.--jimh]

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:40 am

As to what type of line to use for towing, I think we ought to hold that discussion in abeyance until we discover where to attach the towing line to a Boston Whaler 210 MONTAUK.

Since Boston Whaler offers a special bow eye fitting for use in towing, I think it is reasonable to assume that the purpose of the special bow eye fitting for towing is to attach the tow line.

As Con mentioned, the towing of 30-foot and larger center console boats at planing speeds behind large yachts is becoming common. A few years ago while attending the Miami Boat Show, the Boston Whaler folks mentioned to me that the very expensive bow towing eye option on their OUTRAGE boats of 30-feet and longer was very popular, as these boats are often towed at planing speed behind mega-yachts.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby porthole » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:20 pm

jimh wrote:--C-type bridle; as compared to A-type and B-type? What are these and where are they illustrated?

--USCG grid of towing speeds; has the USCG tested a 210 MONTAUK for towing at various speeds?





A bridle is a bridle. There is no a,b, or c that I am aware in the boating world.

One of the USCG grids I referred to is in the USCG Seamanship manual, along with a math formula for determining safe tow speed.
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby porthole » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:53 pm

jimh wrote:--"Small boat bow eyes are supposed to be able to hold the boat vertical."--Really? Where is this codified in any federal regulation? I doubt it is.



ABYC

40.5.3.3 A bow eye or strap, and their points of attachment to the hull, shall be able to accommodate a direct tension pull of the sum of the weight of the boat and its recommended weight capacity.
Last edited by porthole on Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am

That is an interesting American Boat and Yacht Council recommendation--and thanks for mentioning it--but it doesn't say the boat can be hung vertically from the bow eye as was claimed, just that the bow eye should accommodate a certain tension. Here is a longer excerpt from the applicable recommendation, along with a cite of the source used:

40.6 BOW EYES AND BOW STRAPS

40.6.1 General - Boats designed to be towed (e.g., a tender) or winched onto a trailer shall be equipped with a bow eye or bow strap.

40.6.2 Materials - Bow eyes and bow straps shall be constructed of a material which will minimize galvanic corrosion (see ABYC E-2, Cathodic Protection) with the hull materials.

40.6.3 Design and Construction

40.6.3.1 Bow eyes and bow straps shall be of suitable dimension to accommodate the towing line or trailer hook, but not less than one inch inside diameter.

40.6.3.2 The inside working surface shall be smooth and rounded.

40.6.3.3 A bow eye or strap, and their points of attachment to the hull, shall be able to accommodate a direct tension pull of the sum of the boat weight and its maximum designed weight capacity.

40.6.4 Installation

40.6.4.1 The bow eye shall be installed parallel with the centerline.

40.6.4.2 Bow eyes and bow straps shall be through bolted with backing plate(s)/block(s), and washers and nuts incorporating a locking means, or welded to the structure of metal boats. (See Fig. 1) [below]

bowEyeDwg.png
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Source: http://mantusanchors.com/2014redesign/w ... 1/H-40.pdf

This is just a recommendation, albeit probably a good one, but I still am doubtful that it appears in any federal regulation. Whether or not every boat ever made conforms to it is questionable. For example, a 13-foot Boston Whaler boat does not have a bow eye that conforms to the drawing; it has only a single threaded rod and lacks a backing plate. Certainly a 13-foot Boston Whaler boat is intended to be both winched onto a trailer or towed as a tender.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby porthole » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:28 pm

jimh wrote:That is an interesting American Boat and Yacht Council recommendation--and thanks for mentioning it--but it doesn't say the boat can be hung vertically from the bow eye as was claimed, just that the bow eye should accommodate a certain tension.

40.6 BOW EYES AND BOW STRAPS

40.6.1 General - Boats designed to be towed (e.g., a tender) or winched onto a trailer shall be equipped with a bow eye or bow strap.

40.6.3.3 A bow eye or strap, and their points of attachment to the hull, shall be able to accommodate a direct tension pull of the sum of the boat weight and its maximum designed weight capacity.



Source: http://mantusanchors.com/2014redesign/w ... 1/H-40.pdf

This is just a recommendation, albeit probably a good one, but I still am doubtful that it appears in any federal regulation. Whether or not every boat ever made conforms to it is questionable. For example, a 13-foot Boston Whaler boat does not have a bow eye that conforms to the drawing; it has only a single threaded rod and lacks a backing plate. Certainly a 13-foot Boston Whaler boat is intended to be both winched onto a trailer or towed as a tender.



Never said it was federal and never said every trailered boat ever made since the first one meets the ABYC standards.
And I don't know for fact if Boston Whaler meets the all the ABYC standards. But AFAIK, Boston Whaler does currently follow ABYC standards and I don't think they pick and chose what particular standard they do decide to follow.

How do they test that? I don't know, but it is my understanding that "how it would be tested" and lack of a standard for testing has delayed NMMA from making it a standard for certification (referring to the tension pull test on a boat, not the test of the actual bow eye, those tests are already available by googling).

I guess my "plain language" understanding is that if a bow eye is rated to a tension pull of a sum of the boat weight and maximum designed weight capacity, then it can be picked up verticaly.

And more then once over the years we have successfully picked up boats, vertically, by the bow eye only.
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:44 pm

porthole wrote:Never said it was federal and never said every trailered boat ever made since the first one meets the ABYC standards.


What PORTHOLE said, and what began this sidebar was:

porthole wrote:Small boat bow eyes are supposed to be able to hold the boat vertical.


I don't know what "supposed to be able" might mean for "small boats" other than some sort of federal regulation. That is why I replied by asking:

Really? Where is this codified in any federal regulation? I doubt it is."


So far, my doubt appears confirmed. There is no federal regulation that codified this claim, and a federal regulation is the only sort of regulation that could affect all small boats in the USA.

Subsequently, it was suggested that the ABYC promulgated a recommendation that small boats should be able to be hung vertically from their bow eye. It turns out there is no recommendation by ABYC that says that, either.

I am still at a loss to know on what basis we are to accept the notion that "Small boat bow eyes are supposed to be able to hold the boat vertical." I suppose you can make an inference from the ABYC statement about a static tension test, but that is a long way from getting to:

porthole wrote:Small boat bow eyes are supposed to be able to hold the boat vertical.


Again, I would not make any assumption about the strength of a bow eye or its suitability for use in towing a boat at planing speeds without consulting with the manufacturer of the boat.

A much more reasonable assumption for me to endorse is the notion that if a manufacturer offers an upgrade option for the bow eye to make it suitable for towing at planing speeds, then the standard bow eye was probably not deemed by the manufacturer to be suitable for towing at planing speeds.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:38 am

Notice the bow eye on this SOUTHPORT 29 Tournament Edition boat; it looks quite different from the usual bow eye. I suspect it might be reinforced for towing. It appears that six bolts fasten the bow eye to the hull via the associated strap.
Southport29TE.jpg
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:06 am

Regarding the procedures for towing recommended by the U.S. Coast Guard, you can find them in

BOAT CREW SEAMANSHIP MANUAL
https://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/16000-16999/CIM_16114_5C.pdf

To cut to the chase about the type of line recommended as a tow line, the USCG specifically calls for NYLON line. See page 17-10:

Towlines...Nylon instead of other synthetic fiber cordage should be used
for a good combination of strength and stretch (elongation and elasticity).


It is clear to me that the USCG recommends using a tow line with some stretch. Many other sources also concur in that recommendation.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby porthole » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:06 pm

"Some stretch", and it is double braid they recommend, not 3 strand. And the line has to match either the bollard pull or engine horsepower.
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby porthole » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:09 pm

jimh wrote:Notice the bow eye on this SOUTHPORT 29 Tournament Edition boat; it looks quite different from the usual bow eye. I suspect it might be reinforced for towing. It appears that six bolts fasten the bow eye to the hull via the associated strap.
Southport29TE.jpg


It appears to be an aftermarket item.
http://www.toweye.com/infopage1.html
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:59 pm

I don't believe that SOUTHPORT manufactures the bow towing fitting shown in the photograph of their boat (above), but I doubt that it was added to the boat after it was built at the factory. Maybe you can call SOUTHPORT boats and track this down. I showed the fitting to illustrate a bow eye fitting that appeared to have extra reinforcement for towing

As for the vendor you linked to, they specialize in fitting out larger boats for towing. The fitting is a custom fitting, as it would not be easy to fit it to a hull at the bow stem unless the fitting were made to exactly match the angle and slope of the bow. I wouldn't call it an "aftermarket unit" in the sense that you can just buy it off the shelf. They probably bend and shape them to exactly fit a particular boat. Also, the fitting you have pointed to has six bolts per side, not three, so I don't think it is the same fitting as I showed with the SOUTHPORT boat.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby porthole » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:16 pm

jimh wrote:I don't believe that SOUTHPORT manufactures the bow towing fitting shown in the photograph of their boat (above), but I doubt that it was added to the boat after it was built at the factory. Maybe you can call SOUTHPORT boats and track this down. I showed the fitting to illustrate a bow eye fitting that appeared to have extra reinforcement for towing


I don't believe the boat builder manufactures the reinforced bow eye either. But they also don't manufacture a lot of the hardware used on the boat. As do many builders, they source the hardware.
The picture you posted also shows a standard bow eye that is on every Southport trailer boat. Many of the Southport web pictures and videos do show that reinforced bow eye though.

jimh wrote:As for the vendor you linked to, they specialize in fitting out larger boats for towing. The fitting is a custom fitting, as it would not be easy to fit it to a hull at the bow stem unless the fitting were made to exactly match the angle and slope of the bow.



Ridgerunner first posted the link for Toweye.com and it seems they specialize in two areas, towing gear for larger yachts and the reinforced toweyes for small boats. As for the custom aspect, the website offers instructions on making the templates required to have a reinforced bow eye made for anyone taking the time to follow the instructions.
http://www.toweye.com/howtomakeatemplate.html

jimh wrote:I wouldn't call it an "aftermarket unit" in the sense that you can just buy it off the shelf. They probably bend and shape them to exactly fit a particular boat.



Aftermarket by the very definition is exactly what the Toweye product is, whatever source is used to define the word.

jimh wrote:Also, the fitting you have pointed to has six bolts per side, not three, so I don't think it is the same fitting as I showed with the SOUTHPORT boat.


There does appear to be 3 versus 6 screws per side (can be seen on the web page source of the listed picture), so perhaps they are the same product or not.

I did post that question to the manufacturer.
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:50 pm

porthole wrote:...The picture you posted also shows a standard bow eye that is on every Southport trailer boat.


I disagree. Most of the SOUTHPORT boats I saw pictured on their website did not have that unusual bow eye fitting. That was the basis for my using that picture. It showed an unusual bow towing eye, not the standard bow eye. I actually saw the picture in much higher resolution in a magazine print advertisement. When I went to look for it I could not find it in a high-resolution format on the web, so it is a bit hard to see that there are only three bolts per side, not six.

For an example of a SOUTHPORT boat with a more commonly seen bow eye, just visit:

http://southportboats.com/model/southport-272/

That image disproves your statement that the bow eye I showed is on every Southport trailer boat; it is not on the one on their webpage.

How long do you want to argue about this?

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:55 pm

Here is what I think: the existence of the firm TOWEYE.COM is indicative that there is a need for a specialized bow eye fitting for towing of larger boats at planing speed. This is a very reasonable assumption. If, as claimed, all boats can be towed by whatever sort of bow eye fitting they already have, why would TOWEYE.COM exist to sell special fittings, and particularly to sell and fit them on some of the best designed, best made, most expensive boats on the market?

I also think the USCG probably knows a lot about towing, and I would tend to follow their advice in preparing for and undertaking a tow.

This exhausts what I have to say on this topic.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby porthole » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:05 pm

jimh wrote:
porthole wrote:...The picture you posted also shows a standard bow eye that is on every Southport trailer boat.


I disagree. Most of the SOUTHPORT boats I saw pictured on their website did not have that unusual bow eye fitting.




Jim, you misunderstood me.
What I was referring to was that all of the Southport boats have a standard loop type bow eye. The picture you posted has one as well as the heavy duty V shaped item.

I did contact Toweye about the Southport pictured. http://seahawkmarine.com/southport-boats/southport-29te/

They said the piece pictured on that boat was not their product and they supplied me with a picture of their product on a Southport. Not easy to see, but there does appear to be a different number of fasteners between the two. I also contacted Southport, but no reply yet.
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby porthole » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:27 pm

It would be nice if the OP would come back and let us know how he wants tow, normal tow speeds or planing tow for extended distances.
If planing speeds, the best option may be to follow the guidelines the big boys use to tow their toys, "stuff" similar to what Toweye supplies.

Heavy duty one piece toweyes with backing plates and a mix of towing lines, nylon for bridles and Spectra type product for the main hawser.

http://www.toweye.com/towrigsetup.html

FWIW, Spectra type products is what many of the TowBoatUS and Sea Two operators use.

We don't use nylon if it is avoidable. The 41 in the fleet does have double braid nylon, but it is USCG issued line:
600' double braid nylon 2 3/4" circumference (.9") 100 gross tons rated
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Duane
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Thebug » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:29 pm

I want to thank everyone for their input. I thought I had indicated [but never mentioned before this--jimh] that our plan was to run generally at 8-nautical-miles-per-hour and only occasionally at 16-nautical-miles-per-hour.

I have spoken to TOWEYE, which sells a reinforced eye with backing plate for our boat. I also spoke to Chuck at Boston Whaler and to Miami Cordage about rigging.

At the end of the day, we will have an eye which has a backing plate, and [some line made of] braided nylon with a stainless snap shackle and probably some of the Miami cordage line.

I also spoke to owners of similar boats who have [towed] or are towing. Their general consensus was "no problem."

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Thebug » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:41 pm

The tow option offered by Boston Whaler must be requested when ordering. The reinforcement required is constructed during the build. The eye itself does not differ markedly from the standard eye. Broward Marine (or Toweye) fabricates the eyes for Boston Whaler. The owner of Broward is a very nice fellow and very helpful.

You do not want to put holes in the hull to mount an after-market backing plate. The towing eye offered by Broward uses the holes used to mount the standard eye, slightly enlarged. The after-market product is priced very close to the tow option offered by Boston Whaler. I hope this helps others.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby porthole » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:40 am

So this item is made by Broward?

Image

Your mentioned the bracket uses enlarged holes, would you be able to add this bow-eye to your boat? Or is it only an option when the hull is laid up?

Something to think about when you make up your tow rig, a floating pennant on your small boat really helps with picking up and dropping of your tow.

Something like the bottom line picture on this page.
http://www.toweye.com/towrigsetup.html

When we pick up boats that will use the bow eye, we use snap hooks on the end of boat poles. There are brackets that you can attach to a standard boat pole that will hold a large snap hook in the open position. Grab the bow eye and pull the pole, kind of like a flying gaff.

But for frequent connect and disconnect, a floating pennant is way easier, and safer for close quarters.
Thanks,
Duane
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Dutchman » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:28 am

The Bug thanks for replying with the final solution after the many back and forth above. We also know now that she isn't being towed at planing speeds and therefore a reinforced single bow-eye will work.
Thank you.
.
EJO
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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:53 am

To be clear, BROWARD and TOWEYE are the same firm.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:12 pm

Dutchman wrote:The Bug thanks for replying ...We also know now that [the Boston Whaler 210 MONTAUK boat] isn't being towed at planing speeds...


If the 210 MONTAUK is towed at 18.5-MPH (the equivalent of the stated 16-nautical-miles-per-hour speed), I would anticipate the hull will no longer be in displacement mode, but will be either on-plane or in an intermediate phase of trying to climb over its own bow wave and get on plane. If and when in the state of transition to plane, the loading on the tow line will probably be at its peak. We all are familiar with the behavior of planing hulls and their need for greater power to get onto plane than to stay on plane once there. So on that basis I reject the conclusion reached by Dutchman, which was:

Dutchman wrote:,,,therefore a reinforced single bow-eye will work...


First of all, all bow eyes are single eyes and most are reinforced in some manner. The specification "a reinforced single bow-eye " is a new element in the discussion. What is it? Do you mean to say the standard bow eye provided by the boat builder?

It has been demonstrated numerous times in the discussion that the standard bow eye fitting from Boston Whaler (and by inference all bow eye fittings on all the boats whose builders are customers of TOWEYE or BROWARD and who offer upgraded towing eyes) must not be considered to be adequate for towing and should be replaced with an upgraded fitting suitable for towing.

What has still not been made clear from username "the bug" is what fitting is now on his 210 MONTAUK. Can we have a clarification of this? Does the boat have the standard fitting or the upgraded towing fitting?

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:46 pm

Thebug wrote:You do not want to put holes in the hull to mount an after-market backing plate.


I don't understand why adding a backing plate would mean putting holes in the hull. The backing plate would be on the inside of the hull and would not necessitate making new holes in the hull.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby Thebug » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:44 pm

Clarification--the standard tow eye is in fact intended for occasional, slow speed, short distance towings. Our boat was so equipped.

The picture posted above is of the enhanced tow eye marketed by Broward Marine.

The optional tow package from Boston Whaler for the Montauk includes that tow eye together with an integrated backing plate.

The after-market ensemble includes a reinforcing backing plate. The backing plate is in the anchor locker and visible after installation.

If you look at the standard tow eye, you will see that there are two bolts that go into the hull. There is a nut inside the anchor locker. The aftermarket backing plate includes two holes to accommodate those bolts. Remember, the enhanced eye is very similar to the standard eye.

Assumptions about the characteristics of planing hulls are assumptions. My boat is on-step at less than 16-nautical-miles-per-hour. It is a 45,000-lbs [4,500-lbs] boat. It's normal cruising speed is 17.5-nautical miles per hour.

As an aside. I asked both a salesman and a service manager as to whether the T-Top is stainless or aluminum. Both said stainless. The T-Top as provided by Boston Whaler is, in fact, aluminum.

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Re: 210 MONTAUK: Towing Behind Sportfishing Yacht

Postby jimh » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:42 am

That the boat will behave when towed astern of another boat exactly as it does when under its own power with several people aboard is also an assumption. An empty boat being towed may get onto plane at a lower speed than a loaded boat under its own power. The towing boat will create waves in its wake, and the towed boat will be interacting with those waves as well as its own bow wave. It is common to tune the length of the towing line to match the towing speed and the towed boat's behavior so as to put the towed boat in the best position relative to the wave making.

The notion that towing at planing speed will only be done occasionally does not reduce the stress that will occur when towing at those speeds. If the load on the towing eye exceeds its strength, you will soon discover that has occurred.

And, yes, I always thought that the frames manufactured by Boston Whaler to support their hard tops were made from aluminum, based on my first-hand observation of them on many Boston Whaler boats. I think you should move your comment about the frame construction to the other thread you started on that topic. See

210 MONTAUK: T-Top Construction