Anchor hatch fiberglass repair

[cleaver97]

anchor hatch

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anchor hatch

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anchor hatch

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Not a fiberglass expert but willing to learn, my 1993 Dauntless anchor hatch cover has been separating over the years and was not sure of the best approach for a permanent repair. Could I pour a epoxy resin into the void and clamp? I have looked into a teak/mahogany replacements but it doesn't really go with the year of the boat.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[jimh]

Epoxy is an excellent adhesive for making repairs to fiberglass composite structures.

Be cautious with the method you propose to "pour [an] epoxy resin into the void". Curing epoxy is an exothermic chemical reaction, and a large volume of epoxy resin will generate a very significant amount of heat while curing, often so much heat that the material that is supposed to be adhered to the epoxy will melt. Also, the epoxy will be "cooked" and not much adhesion will occur. You should not use epoxy resin to fill voids. You have to thicken it with fillers if you want to make a void filler.

If you are planning to use epoxy to make repairs, you must read the excellent literature from WEST Systems Epoxy on how to make repairs with epoxy. Read:

Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenance

You will learn a great deal about using epoxy properly. For example, it is extremely important when mixing epoxy to combine the reagents in their stoichiometric ratios. You can't just mix the resin and hardener in random proportions. I also recommend you listen to an interview with a WEST System application engineer. It is available from

West System Interview in Whaler Radio or Podcast

You might also find some value in my first-hand account of some repairs:

Minor Repairs with Epoxy

And then there are always these two good articles:

Repairing Hull Damage the Whaler Way

INSTRUCTIONS -- HULL PATCH KITS

[cleaver97]

Thanks for the wealth of information Jim, I will read thru. One item I forgot to mention in original post, has anyone had experience with the West System Six10 Epoxy Adhesive (see link below) for fiberglass repair? I have used the product in construction on wood joints and results were impressive but never with fiberglass
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/new-six10-epoxy-adhesive/

[Don McIntyre - MI]

Using the tube of Six10 vs mixing up a batch: the strength should be the same between the two methods. What you gain is ease and convenience with the tube. No messy ratios to figure out, or pumps to buy.

More important: is what is the condition of the plywood inside? If there's any dry rot, you should seriously consider opening up the whole hatch (a Dremel type hand tool would work great) and replace the wood, while you're at it. Then it becomes very easy to spread out the epoxy, glue the wood down, wait 24-hours and repeat with the other side.

Jim points out the same links that I would have.

If you need further help, just ask!

Regards - Don McIntyre - Port Huron, MI

[cleaver97]

Follow up on my anchor hatch cover repair on my 1993 15' Dauntless. As recommended by this forum I ended up taking anchor hatch cover apart to verify any dry rot damage and I am glad I did. Now that I have removed the damaged wood the solid material is much more difficult to remove and am concerned with doing damage to the hatch trying to remove. Could I use a wood hardener in a situation like this for the edges and leave existing material in place or would it react with the future fiberglass? Could I fill the current voids solid with a resin?

Am I better off just replacing with a teak replacement hatch?

Thanks in advance for any advise.

[ConB]

If what I am seeing in the pictures is the top is OK and the bottom is OK and you cleaned out rotten wood filler, I would use West System Epoxy to glue it back together.

You would wet everything inside both sides with unthickened slow epoxy then thicken enough epoxy to fill the voids with 406 Colloidal Silica, then put the peaces together with some light weight all over. Not heavy weight. Do not over fill or under fill the voids.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/

Con

[jimh]

The two separate threads on this topic are now merged.

[JRP]

If you have not gone out and purchased epoxy yet, I recommend several brands other than WEST SYSTEM. I prefer MAS or System Three for ease of use and no-blush characteristics. A mini epoxy kit that included the resin, hardener, calibrated pumps, wood flour, and silica powder is a a very handy package to have available in your shop for small boat projects like this hatch repair you are presently undertaking. Here is an example of an epoxy kit at a decent price:

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/products/b ... omy-4.html

Note that the pumps included with the above kit are calibrated to dispense the correct resin:hardener ratio (2:1) by depressing each pump a full stroke once. In other words, to achieve the correct ratio you press the resin pump once and the hardener pump once.

In the case of your hatch project. I agree with the suggestion to first coat any wood that is exposed on the underside of the hatch with clear epoxy (which is to say, resin and hardener that have been combined and mixed in the correct ratio.) You would apply the clear epoxy with a foam brush, just sufficiently to coat the surfaces and seal up any exposed end grain.

To fill the voids where rotted wood has been removed, I do not recommend using silica powder as the epoxy thickener. Silica powder is often added to mixed epoxy to thicken it somewhat and improve its adhesive qualities for bonding separate components together. It helps the epoxy to grip and cures VERY hard. As such, it is not a good choice for filling voids because the very fine silica powder does not add enough "bulk" to the epoxy to create the sort of volume required for filling large voids. Also, it dries VERY hard and is difficult to sand.

Wood flour is a better choice when thickening epoxy for filling voids. Wood flour adds more lightweight bulk and when mixed to the correct consistency is easier to work with because it does not run or flow. Also, when the epoxy sets, the much less dense filler material (wood flour) will be much easier to sand smooth and fair. Mix the wood flour slowly into your epoxy mixture until it reaches a peanut butter consistency (not runny--it should stick to your mixing tool and not drip off of it.) Then apply it to your voids with a small plastic squeegee/scraper and smooth it out as best you can.

Allow the epoxy/wood flour mixture to set-up for an hour or two. At this point the mixture should not have hardened, merely become somewhat more firm in consistency. Return with a small cup of denatured alcohol and dip your latex-gloved fingers in the cup to dampen them with the alcohol. Use your fingers to clean up any run-over and gently smooth out any imperfections on the edges and surface of the void that was filled. The more clean-up you do now, the less sanding you will have to do later when the epoxy fully cures.

You can also use the epoxy-wood flour mixture to fill the voids in the other fibreglass piece of the hatch. Clean-up and smooth out in the same way with gloved fingers and denatured alcohol.

After the epoxy-wood flour has fully cured--it's usually best to let it cure overnight--sand the components with something like 100-150 grit so the surfaces are fair and relatively even.

Now you can use a mixture of epoxy-silica powder (alternatively, cell-o-fill) to bond the two pieces of the hatch together. Mix some epoxy and slowly add silica powder until it reaches a somewhat runny, mustard-like consistency. Then apply the mixture to both surfaces that will be bonded together using a disposable foam or chip bristle brush. Align carefully, then clamp the two components together and/or use weights to compress them together. Immediately clean up any epoxy-silica powder that runs out around the edges due to the clamping compression. Come back again in an hour or two and check for more run-out, and clean-up as necessary After removing any thickened epoxy that runs out from the edges, some tacky resin will still remain. A cloth dampened with denatured alcohol will clean this residue up nicely.

This is how I would tackle this project. Good luck and I hope you can use some of these suggestions.

[cleaver97]

Thank you for the input. I guess I have one of my winter projects ready to go!

Thank you JimH for combining the two threads, really clarified everything for viewing the project, couldn't figure how to do it.

[The best way to avoid having two threads is to not have two threads to begin with; find the original thread and append a new reply to it. Users cannot join threads.--jimh]

[Binkster]

All of that mumbo-jumbo repair methods in the above posts about repairing your hatch cover with epoxy will lead you down the road to frustration and failure. Its not a winter project, more like a weekend at most. Separate the two halves, throw the bottom part away. Remove all the wood from the top half. Clean it all up and wipe down with acetone. Buy a gallon of polyester resin and enough 1 1/2oz fiberglass mat for three layers on the bottom of the hatch. Then layup three layers one over the other while the bottom one is still tacky. If you think it needs more thickness lay up a forth layer. Wait a day and grind off the edges smooth and paint on a final coat of just the resin. Had the same problem with the hatch cover on my 15 footer, and that's how I repaired it. You boat is laid up with polyester resin, no nneed for epoxy.
rich

[jimh]

Epoxy is a better adhesive for making repairs. Use of epoxy does not lead to failure. Epoxy is not mumbo-jumbo. Epoxy is fabulous for bonding wood.

A reason boat builders do not use epoxy for laminating is the higher cost. Cost-no-object boats are put together with epoxy.

There is no reason to eschew use of epoxy for repairs because your boat was laminated with polyester resins.

Polyester resins generally don't cure well if exposed to air, and that makes them difficult to use, in my experience. They are good for laying up a boat in a mold, but not so good for making minor repairs.

Please feel free to use any sort of repair method you like, and use any sort of adhesive to hold the repair together, but please do not make wild generalizations like use of epoxy leads to failure. That is nonsense.

[picflight]

I prefer to use polyester resin, the layup kind for this project. Your final layer will be covered to fully cure.

Cut balsa wood the size of the core you took out, it is easier to cut straight lines in your part and the new core.
Layup fiberglass cloth after you have glued the new core pieces.

After it is all dry and cured, sand to perfection, gelcoat over it and sand, polish to finish.

[Marko888]

Has a new cover been priced out from Whaler? I ask as I did a big rebuild on a part once and later learned that I would have been better off to simply buy a replacement.

[Binkster]

Epoxy is basically a glue. The problem with using it for layup is it is much harder than polyester resin, and when grinding and sanding the repair to make it smooth its next to impossible to bring it to the same level as the surrounding surface. You will need to cover the whole repair with bondo, and then sand it smooth. Why make things more difficult? Epoxy WILL stick to gel coat and polyester resin won't. That's one reason many folks use it, but if you grind off the gel coat surrounding the repair, polyester resin will stick just as well.

rich

[Commok]

I have the same problem on my 2001 Dauntless 220.

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The anchor hatch has a separated edge and the result has led to mold showing through the gel coat. I took the hatch off and stood it on edge to drain in my workshop - soon had a 6" puddle from the water inside. I am going to dremel the hatch apart over the winter. I priced the new hatch with Sue - $622 from BW, so it is worth repairing. Would replacing the wood inside with KING StarBoard or another marine-grade HPDE lumber make sense versus balsa?

[jimh]

Using KING StarBoard or other ultra-high molecular weight plastic as an internal reinforcement for a fiberglass laminated hatch does not sound like a good choice to me, for these reasons:

--the weight increase would be significant;

--bonding to KING StarBoard is difficult;

--the increase in strength may be marginal.

If wood is used as an internal reinforcement and completely encapsulated with resin, there should not be a problem with future rot.

Problems with delamination at the edges of hatches laminated by Boston Whaler seems to be common. I had to make a minor repair to the anchor locker hatch on my 1990 Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive boat. I just used some epoxy with filler to repair the opened areas. I think I got to it before water really intruded and rotted the internal wood reinforcement.

[Don McIntyre - MI]

To expand slightly on what Jim posted:

When Jim mentioned "completely encapsulated with resin", you really want to make sure that there is no chance of any water or oxygen to penetrate. What I've found in hatch covers, etc., that the weak point is any penetration (think screw holes, using common bedding compound or not) is a potential leak point.

The only way to eliminate screw holes as water penetration points is to either use a high quality bedding compound or create what the West epoxy system staff calls an epoxy annulus. It's created by drilling an oversize hole (through the hatch, in this instance), taping over the hole on the underside. Pour a plain mix of epoxy into the hole, and let setup overnight. Next day, drill the proper sized hole. The created epoxy ring will not allow water to intrude.

Regards - Don

[brill]

Another option if a repair is not feasible is to replace with Starboard AS. This material has an non-skid molded into one side. I replaced the fish box hatches on my 2000 Conquest 28 with these and 2 seasons later they are holding up well. They do not flex and the nonskid is effective. I purchased them 3/4 thick and had them cut to size by Boat Outfitters. They are available with diamond pattern nonskid, which is not an exact match for the factory pattern; but the difference is not too noticeable.

Pardon the fishblood in the pic. And it did clean off easily.

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