Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
ac61
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Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby ac61 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:49 am

Hello. I plan to buy a MONTAUK 17. I came across 1984 boat that I really like—except it has keel damage depicted in Figure 1. The owner said that the DIY-repair was done to prevent further damage until professionally done, and that it was mostly sandbar rash from years of beaching the boat.

I have no reason not to believe the owner, I just want an opinion of what I am looking at here.

Q1: What concerns should I have?

Q2: And how much to fix?

untitled i.png
Fig. 1. Temporary repairs to hull damage on MONTAUK 17.
untitled i.png (185.77 KiB) Viewed 5650 times


Regards,
AC

rtk
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby rtk » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:46 am

It is difficult to judge the extent of the repairs needed from the photograph. The only way you will truly know what is needed to do a proper professional-grade repair will be to grind off the temporary repair to see what is lurking beneath.

Rich

jimh
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby jimh » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:12 am

ac61 wrote:Q1: What concerns should I have?


The principal concern is that the hull laminate and possibly the hull foam has become saturated with water due to exposure of the hull laminate layers below the gel coat layer to water or to exposure of the interior foam to water, particularly on a hull running surface.

A secondary concern is that the initial repair was not made with a resin that was particularly suited to the task.

A tertiary concern is the repair may need to be completely ground away, which will inherently create a new, larger area to be repaired


ac61 wrote:Q2: And how much to fix?


The materials to repair this damage will probably not cost more than $100. The labor to repair this damage will be free, if you do it yourself, or if hired out, probably cost about five hour of labor, or perhaps $500. Thus the cost to repair will be from $100 to $600. This assumes the damage is limited to the gel coat layer and a small part of the underlying laminate layer.

If the damage is more extensive and the interior foam of the Unibond hull has been exposed and is saturated with water, the repair will be more difficult and more expensive.

For an example of how to make repairs to a Boston Whaler Unibond hull, I recommend you read the excellent article with several illustrations at

Repairing Hull Damage the Whaler Way
by Taylor Clark

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/whalerRepair.html

Another resource for information about repairing a Boston Whaler Unibond hull is this reprint in HTML of the Boston Whaler repair advice:

INSTRUCTIONS -- HULL PATCH KITS
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... tions.html

A narrative of a relatively simple and very inexpensive repair process to fix damage to the running surface of a Unibond hull which did not expose the foam is available at

The Epoxy Cure
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/epoxyRepair.html

jimh
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby jimh » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:27 am

In assessing the value of the MONTAUK 17 that is a prospective purchase, I would ask the seller to reduce his price by about $500 based on the repair of the hull damage. Also, to get a better idea of the extend of the damage, ask the seller to drill a 0.125-inch-diameter hole into the repaired areas to see if any water begins to drip out from the repair. If no water appears, the repair will be simple. If water begins to drip out, the repair will be more extensive. The hull may need several months to dry out before a proper repair can be made.

If the seller balks at either suggestion, ask the seller to have the damage repaired professionally at his expense, and then you will retract your request for the $500 reduction in price.

biggiefl
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby biggiefl » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:55 am

I personally would not be afraid if the price was right.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

ac61
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby ac61 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:51 pm

Many thanks for your time and your knowledge.

ac61
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby ac61 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:10 am

Well, I went out to look at the boat again, put an Ohmmeter between a drain hole in the transom and a depth finder bracket and got a reading. Did the same between two drains on transom [and got] the same [reading].

[What is your comment about these unspecified resistance readings]?

biggiefl
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby biggiefl » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:19 am

Disconnect the battery and try again
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

ac61
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby ac61 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:28 am

And if the same after that?

How does the battery affects the test?

The depth finder bracket was empty, no transducer.

Thanks

biggiefl
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby biggiefl » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:31 pm

There has got to be a current coming from someplace. Not uncommon but if a lot of current it could slowly corrode underwater fittings. A battery switch eliminates this. What test are you trying to perform? I have NEVER heard of anyone using an ohm meter on a drain tube before. If there tubes/fittings/outdrive/etc. were starting to get electrolysis.....yes.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

ac61
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby ac61 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:58 pm

I was measuring resistance. A dry transom would show no continuity. While one with water in it would. Or at least that's the theory.
I was wondering if there is something that may make the test useless.

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Rick W
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby Rick W » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:31 am

Can you weigh the boat?

If you think the hull could have absorbed a lot of water then the weight should be higher than specification.

I don't like the sound of your resistance test. I would expect infinite resistance but perhaps the resin is conductive or some such simple explanation.
First time owner, long time admirer , purchased a 16ft hull from Canadian Coast Guard. Boat was actually used and abused by Canadian Fisheries. its not a 1963 but is a 1970 model

biggiefl
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby biggiefl » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:16 am

There are very few transom problems on Montauks. If the drain tubes are intact and everything looks good, don't sweat it. Lastly, do not be "that guy" when it comes to buying a Whaler. Any 1984 boat is going to have some imperfections and probably some water in the hull. Don't over think it. Take it for a ride and if it hits 40, you are fine.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

jimh
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby jimh » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:36 am

The unspecified resistance readings present almost no useful data about a resistance measurement, and to expect readers to come to a certainty about the water content in a hull based on unknown values of resistance that were measured is not possible.

Without knowing the actual resistance measured and the device used to measure the resistance, to speculate about the presence of water in the hull would be impossible.

Without having other Boston Whaler hulls and having made resistance measurements (with the same meter) on those hulls, there is little to compare the unspecified resistance value measured on this particular to other hulls and their resistance measurements.

dtmackey
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby dtmackey » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:47 pm

The list of variables that would impact a resistance reading on the test you performed are endless and do not merit a conclusion. Just a few:
- the usage of the boat in salt, fresh or brackish water (each conducts differently when tested if present in the transom.
- is the boat bottom painted?
- variation in materials, construction from boat to boat.
- the lack of a baseline measurement for a comparison.

Even the results of boat survey moisture tests are very subjective and vary greatly meter to meter and the person operating.

The late David Pasco (marine surveyor) has a great write up on moisture testing.

D-

rtk
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby rtk » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:16 pm

I was measuring resistance. A dry transom would show no continuity.


Is your conclusion of moisture content based on testing the electrical continuity on a good number of Boston Whaler 17 Montauks or any other boats that have a laminated plywood/fiberglass transom? If yes how many readings of this nature, Boston Whaler transoms or other transoms of similar construction is in your sample data set to establish the baseline electrical continuity ranges that would be indicative of a wet transom or a wet boat or a dry transom or a dry boat?

Readings such as moisture content utilizing a "moisture meter" are only useful in a relative sense. If there is not a good number of known base level data collected and verified on very similar if not identical hulls on a boat that is considered dry vs a boat that is considered wet then a conclusion on one moisture reading is only evidentiary but not conclusive for a determination of the general moisture content of a boat.

Weighing the boat is a great weigh (pun intended) to determine if you have a bunch of water in the hull. But quite frankly you can kind of tell by just looking at the boat to see if attention has been paid to limit water egress via the bottom or interior of this boat.

How much are you considering paying for this boat? If it is $10,000 for the boat only then walk away. You are not looking at a $10,000 hull. If it is $5,000 for the boat walk away given the "temporary patch" and your very significant concerns. If it is $2,500 then there is very little risk to the purchase. Add the contributory value of anything else included and there ya go on a decision. If you're paying around $5,000 for the boat, an engine that runs and a basic trailer to pull it around it is what it is.

Forget about a moisture meter and get yourself a hard plastic hammer. Tap lightly around the boat. Crack Crack Crack sharp reports back it's not significantly wet and is likely sound. Thud Thud Thud there are problems.

There are very few transom problems on Montauks. If the drain tubes are intact and everything looks good, don't sweat it. Lastly, do not be "that guy" when it comes to buying a Whaler. Any 1984 boat is going to have some imperfections and probably some water in the hull. Don't over think it. Take it for a ride and if it hits 40, you are fine.


Nick sums it up very well.

What is the contract price on the boat engine and trailer if applicable? Details on the engine and trailer would help on advising on the purchase.

Rich

jimh
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Re: Montauk Hull Damage Assessment

Postby jimh » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:22 pm

Start a new thread IF you buy the boat.

[Thread is now closed.]