Jim and others--In the Reference section you mention that the two-part polyurethane is the most labor intensive. How can that be when you state three to six coats needed compared to varnish's 12 coats[?] In addition does not need sanding in between every-coat. Reading this, it looks like it [that is, a polyurethane finish] would be less work [than a varnish finish]. Thoughts?
Can you do both? Would it make sense to varnish and then put a coat of something on top? I guess I have done all the reading in the refrence section and I am still a little lost on what to use.
My situation: I have the ability to put in work, time, effort, and money now and will not have that time in a few years to do it again. I want it to look good, but longevity is a big big concern.
[Although the article is never cited, it must be the article at http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... rWood.html . Several long passages of the article were quoted here. See the sections under the headings "Two-Part Clear Polyurethane" and "Varnish" for the material that was quoted--jimh]
Polyurethane Or Varnish
Re: Polyurethane vs varnish
I used Perfection varnish about eight years ago on my mahogany and wasn't impressed. A lot of extra work for the epoxy, NOTHING cleans the brushes, and I ended up sanding it off three years later and went back to varnish because it had started to peel in some areas. And the clam of not having to sand between coats is absolutely not true. Good luck if you use the epoxy, but the mixing and cleanup aren't worth the extra effort.
Re: Polyurethane vs varnish
BlueSmoke wrote:Jim and others.
In the Reference section you mention that the two-part polyurethane is the most labor intensive.
Although you never cite the actual article you are referring to and pulling quotes from, I am certain that you must be referring to the article by author Brian N. Blazer, "Wood Care and the Boston Whaler Boat," which was published 12 years ago and remains available at
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... rWood.html
Because I am not the author of that article, you should not expect that I can explain the reasons for various statements made by the article's author. Please note the author's name appears at the top of the article immediately under the article's title. You should contact the author if you wish to engage him with questions or discussions. The author has some experience with various method of wood finishing. I have never applied any polyurethane finish and only have applied one coat of varnish to a small wooden component. I am not able to provide any advice on this topic.
Re: Polyurethane vs varnish
Acseatsri wrote:I used Perfection varnish about eight years ago on my mahogany and wasn't impressed. A lot of extra work for the epoxy, NOTHING cleans the brushes, and I ended up sanding it off three years later and went back to varnish because it had started to peel in some areas.
I don't understand how "Perfection varnish" became epoxy. Varnish is not epoxy. Polyurethane is not epoxy. They are three different products.
Acseatsri wrote:And the [claim] of not having to sand between coats is absolutely not true.
You'll have to take up your concern with the author of the article that makes that claim. Apparently his experience using these finish materials is different from yours. Please note that following the initial publication of the article there was a provision made for follow-up comments and questions. Most comments were in praise of the article, and no concerns were raised about serious misstatements in the article. The article was published 12 years ago.
Re: Polyurethane Or Varnish
Jim,
Thanks for the clarification on who wrote the article and when it was written. You are right I should address my questions to them. I apologize for addressing you incorrectly and now realize this was not your article.
I find so often that someone posts a question in the forum only to a receive a quick response that the answer is in the reference or FAQ section and have they checked there.
I decided to start my research by reading the reference section and had a question on what I had read and wanted to ask the forum members their thoughts based on their experience working on their whalers.
Acseatsri thanks for sharing your experience with perfection varnish on mahogany, that was one of the products I was reading about so I appreciate it!
Thanks for the clarification on who wrote the article and when it was written. You are right I should address my questions to them. I apologize for addressing you incorrectly and now realize this was not your article.
I find so often that someone posts a question in the forum only to a receive a quick response that the answer is in the reference or FAQ section and have they checked there.
I decided to start my research by reading the reference section and had a question on what I had read and wanted to ask the forum members their thoughts based on their experience working on their whalers.
Acseatsri thanks for sharing your experience with perfection varnish on mahogany, that was one of the products I was reading about so I appreciate it!
Re: Polyurethane Or Varnish
I will share my very limited experience using epoxy and varnish as finish materials. I used WEST System epoxy to coat several small wooden components in my Boston Whaler boat. One of the components was the mahogany plywood parta of the Starboard cockpit aft sump cover. This wood is right on the deck and gets wet all the time from any water on deck or when hosing down the deck. I wanted to completely protect this wood.
I used WEST System epoxy to top coat the wood and completely seal it. The hardener component of the epoxy I used had been on my shelf for a long time, and its color had turned to amber from clear. This gave the epoxy mixture a nice amber or varnish-like hue. I applied a good coating of epoxy to the plywood, sealing off all the end grains. When the epoxy was thoroughly cured, I washed it in soapy water to remove any amine blush. I sanded the epoxy surface with some medium grit sandpaper to give the surface some texture to improve adhesion of the next top coat layer. Then I again cleaned the part, probably with some acetone to remove all traces of residue.
To the cured, cleaned, sanded, and re-cleaned surface I applied a top coat of high-quality marine yacht-grade varnish. The purpose of the varnish is to provide protection against ultraviolet light which would tend to cause the epoxy to yellow or otherwise change. As I recall, one coat of varnish seemed to impart quite a nice finish, so I may have stopped there.
The resulting wooden component now became more like a plastic component, that is, its surface felt very un-wood-like. The durability of this finish was excellent. I think I did this about ten years ago. The wooden latch cover over the cockpit sump looks the same today as it did ten years ago. The wood has been very well protected against any intrusion of water. There is no sign of the finish trying to peel off.
Although I am not a wood finishing expect, I do know that the tendency for a top coat layer to peel off any sort of material is usually caused by the presence of moisture under the top coat layer. I have seen no evidence of this happening in the wood which I coated first with epoxy and then with varnish. I also finished off another small hatch cover that covers the cabin sump in a similar way. It also shows no sign of peeling.
In my opinion based on this limited experience, I think that sealing wooden components first with WEST System epoxy and then applying one or more additional top coats of a high-quality marine yacht-grade varnish is a very good method of preventing ingress of water into wooden components. By the way, I am a freshwater boater, and freshwater is more of a problem in causing rot than saltwater. The only drawback to the use of epoxy and varnish is the feel of the material changes to more of a plastic-like feel than a wood-like feel. That may be a consideration for some applications. For my application for small latches on the deck where water can often be present, I think epoxy and varnish are a good combination.
I used WEST System epoxy to top coat the wood and completely seal it. The hardener component of the epoxy I used had been on my shelf for a long time, and its color had turned to amber from clear. This gave the epoxy mixture a nice amber or varnish-like hue. I applied a good coating of epoxy to the plywood, sealing off all the end grains. When the epoxy was thoroughly cured, I washed it in soapy water to remove any amine blush. I sanded the epoxy surface with some medium grit sandpaper to give the surface some texture to improve adhesion of the next top coat layer. Then I again cleaned the part, probably with some acetone to remove all traces of residue.
To the cured, cleaned, sanded, and re-cleaned surface I applied a top coat of high-quality marine yacht-grade varnish. The purpose of the varnish is to provide protection against ultraviolet light which would tend to cause the epoxy to yellow or otherwise change. As I recall, one coat of varnish seemed to impart quite a nice finish, so I may have stopped there.
The resulting wooden component now became more like a plastic component, that is, its surface felt very un-wood-like. The durability of this finish was excellent. I think I did this about ten years ago. The wooden latch cover over the cockpit sump looks the same today as it did ten years ago. The wood has been very well protected against any intrusion of water. There is no sign of the finish trying to peel off.
Although I am not a wood finishing expect, I do know that the tendency for a top coat layer to peel off any sort of material is usually caused by the presence of moisture under the top coat layer. I have seen no evidence of this happening in the wood which I coated first with epoxy and then with varnish. I also finished off another small hatch cover that covers the cabin sump in a similar way. It also shows no sign of peeling.
In my opinion based on this limited experience, I think that sealing wooden components first with WEST System epoxy and then applying one or more additional top coats of a high-quality marine yacht-grade varnish is a very good method of preventing ingress of water into wooden components. By the way, I am a freshwater boater, and freshwater is more of a problem in causing rot than saltwater. The only drawback to the use of epoxy and varnish is the feel of the material changes to more of a plastic-like feel than a wood-like feel. That may be a consideration for some applications. For my application for small latches on the deck where water can often be present, I think epoxy and varnish are a good combination.
Re: Polyurethane Or Varnish
I agree with all jimh's points, especially if you desire protection in an area where water seems to remain.
Other than that, for thwart seats etc. you can have excellent results with a quality varnish alone.
The important feature for me was UV protection from the sun. I chose Pettit Flagship varnish with the most UV additives.
My recommendations is a 6 coat minimum, sanding lightly between coats, and tack cloth is a MUST between coats. Foam brushes work well.
Every year or so, I would start the season with a very light sanding and a new coat of varnish. BEAUTIFUl!!!
I saw a website that showed a roller and brush tipping. I'll post when I can find it.
Other than that, for thwart seats etc. you can have excellent results with a quality varnish alone.
The important feature for me was UV protection from the sun. I chose Pettit Flagship varnish with the most UV additives.
My recommendations is a 6 coat minimum, sanding lightly between coats, and tack cloth is a MUST between coats. Foam brushes work well.
Every year or so, I would start the season with a very light sanding and a new coat of varnish. BEAUTIFUl!!!
I saw a website that showed a roller and brush tipping. I'll post when I can find it.
Re: Polyurethane Or Varnish
When sanding mahogany interior for refinishing what different sandpapers are used? Would 60/120/220 be a good progression? Seats are in decent shape with the old varnish flaking off in spots and minor discoloration where the varnish has flaked off.
Thanks
Mike
Thanks
Mike