1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
NLA01
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1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby NLA01 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:42 pm

I plan to replace the tank [on the 1995 OUTRAGE 24 boat]. I did a pressure test on tank this last weekend and it is for sure leaking out the back. Replacing it with a smaller Moeller plastic tank. I never want an aluminum tank again.

[Moderator's note: this thread has been split from another thread that was discussing a completely different repair.--jimh]

Acseatsri
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby Acseatsri » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:38 pm

I also WOULD NOT replace the tank with a smaller plastic tank. Again, if you ever go to sell it, the reduced range would adversely affect the value , especially for someone who does offshore runs. Aluminum tanks usually last about 20-30 years depending on how much the boat is used. Using it more often keeps the gas fresher and less chance of water or ethanol corroding the tank. Most likely, if you replace the tank, it will probably last another 20-30 years, probably several owners before it needs replacement again.

dtmackey
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby dtmackey » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:13 pm

Acassidy wrote:Thanks for everyone's comments. So the plan is not remove the Top and pull the decks by working around it.

I am going to disconnect the console and top from the deck but leave the top connected to the console. I will lift it up a bit to pull the rear deck out, sit it back down and secure it to the gunwale hand rails and cleats. The rear deck does not support the console but slides under it about 12" in the middle. And then replace the tank. I did a pressure test on tank this last weekend and it is for sure leaking out the back. Replacing it with a smaller Moeller plastic tank. I never want an aluminum tank again.


Don't be so quick to dismiss aluminum. Alum tanks fail because manufactures do a very poor job of installing them to last. Many just pop the tank in the "cavity" (area that holds the tank) and use rubber pads on the bottom and foam them in and do not properly seal the cavity cover allowing water in that creates a stew of corrosive material. First of all, rubber pads should NEVER be used as the carbon in the rubber accelerates corrosion. Second, why would anyone install a bare metal tank? It should be coated in coal-tar epoxy and many tank builders offer this. Third, make sure the cavity cover is sealed with a UV stable material (not RTV) and make this part of your annual inspection

I'm not familiar with your model, but if the tank is foamed in, it may not just lift out. Sometimes they need to be forcefully removed or the foam around must be chiseled or cut out to free the tank. You may find that the console needs to move further than first planned.

I've done a number of tanks on other boats and sharing pics from one project where I helped a friend with his boat.

Use the t-top as leverage in moving the console. Tilting worked best for me and required disconnecting the control cables and hydraulic steering lines.
Image

Removal of the old tank. You will have to pry it out after removing foam (if yours is foamed in)
Image

Here you can see the water intrusion into the tank cavity area. It looks like there's damage to the bottom of the cavity, but that's foam and voids created when poured in. We removed all the foam down to bare gelcoat and the tank went into a clean cavity and was foamed back in with 2 part polyurethane foam. Foam prevents the tank from moving and also provide needed support on the underside. I believe we used 4# foam.
Image

The area exposed to the water and badly pitted aluminum that was bare and unprotected.
Image

New aluminum coal tar epoxy coated tank ready for install.
Image

As others mentioned, I would not go plastic under the deck and future buyers may have concerns with a boat where the tank was replaced with a smaller unit and not original to the design of the boat.

These are just my thoughts based on experience.

D-

vze2gbs4
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Removing Large T-Top

Postby vze2gbs4 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:29 pm

Another vote for fixing existing tank. Aluminum is weldable-its harder and you need a right person to do it but if done right its good again for long time.
I fixed 3 aluminum tanks on whaler - 2 were on 96-98 17 outrage and one was 94 21 outrage. All three had same dime size hole on the bottom towards the stern . I cleaned up the tanks,welded ,coated them with rubberized paint and back they went . Problem was that whaler installed drain hole higher than lowest point of tank compartment allowing sea water to seat there and attack aluminum. It takes time ( well 20 years) but eventually it creates a hole.Finding a right plastic tank for that 24 outrage cavity is not gonna be easy.

NLA01
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby NLA01 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:10 pm

I did not know that you could weld an aluminum tank to repair it. That is a great idea. If I pull the tank and it just has one or couple corroded holes areas then maybe I can do that. Then I can paint it like you did. Where do you get the tar paint?

I can imagine that you would have to really clean the tank out. Did you fill it with water to weld it?

How did you prep it and how did you weld the patch. Did the welder fill the holes or did you weld an aluminum patch? Did you just fill in the missing aluminum until it was connected again. Could someone just weld an aluminum patch over the area after cleaning it real good.

The tank is a 190 gallon in a cavity that is completely open to the bilge of the boat. It is completely foamed in on the sides. It is leaking out the bottom of the very back where it sat in bilge water for years while it sat up.

The Commercial Whaler division still makes this boat with a 24' Justice police boat and it has a 120 gallon tank. I was thinking going back with a 120-150 gallon Moeller. It is my understanding that Whaler is starting to install these plastic tanks in their new boats.

So really the question is plastic verses aluminum and has any one ever had to replace a plastic fuel tank for structural reasons other than it just being gross inside.

The way you did your t-top and console is exactly the way I am thinking, with the tilt. admirable and inspiring pictures and thank you. I am hoping that that tank it not glued to the bottom with foam.
Archie

dtmackey
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby dtmackey » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:00 pm

While I'm not suggesting or promoting ANYONE weld a used gas tank, there are things to consider if you go that route.

- Make sure all gas is removed and you wash the inside of the tank with water, you cannot have any residue gas as it generates fumes and goes "BOOM"
- Aluminum must be super clean in order to get void free TIG welds. Tanks where corrosion has etched into the metal, may not be good candidates and voids are created in the weld.
- Jamestown Marine carries coal-tar epoxy. https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=61578

Replacement tanks range in price based on the welder and the design. I've seen prices range from $6 - 10/gallon of capacity.

D-

Jefecinco
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Removing Large T-Top

Postby Jefecinco » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:34 am

Many years ago when we needed to repair a fuel tank by welding we would clean the tank as much as field conditions allowed and continue to flood the tank with engine exhaust while welding. The theory was that the exhaust contained a high enough concentration of inert gases to prevent combustion. A hose from a vehicle exhaust pipe to the tank filler is what we used.

We never had an explosion or fire doing this and we repaired a lot of fuel tanks.
Butch

CYRIL97150
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby CYRIL97150 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:34 pm

Acassidy wrote:The Commercial Whaler division still makes this boat with a 24' Justice police boat and it has a 120 gallon tank. I was thinking going back with a 120-150 gallon Moeller. It is my understanding that Whaler is starting to install these plastic tanks in their new boats.
Archie


Good afternoon,

I have same fuel tank problem with my 1997 24 OUTRAGE 1997. Have you replaced [the original fuel tank] with the plastic one ?

Or with a new aluminum fuel tank?

Or just repaired the original fuel tank?

Thank you

biggiefl
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby biggiefl » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:50 pm

I have JB weld/PC-7'd a tank that had some pinholes back in 1990....still with us today.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

CYRIL97150
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby CYRIL97150 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:57 pm

biggiefl wrote:I have JB weld/PC-7'd a tank that had some pinholes back in 1990....still with us today.


Thank you. My english is poor. I'm French.

JB weld/PC-7'd is it epoxy ? just epoxy on aluminium tank with pinholes 30 years ago ?
Last edited by CYRIL97150 on Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jimh
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby jimh » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:03 pm

My English is rather good, but it still takes insight into non-standard use of the language to understand the remarks.

I believe that the phrase

"JB weld/PC-7'd"

is trying to convey that the author has used two products, one product called JB WELD and a second product called PC-7, to make a repair.

CYRIL97150
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby CYRIL97150 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:06 pm

jimh wrote:...trying to convey that the author has used two products, one product called JB WELD and a second product called PC-7, to make a repair.


Thank you Jimh.. perhaps one of the two and not the two ?

jimh
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby jimh » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:15 pm

Yes, perhaps one of the products at a time. The products--I am not familiar with them--are probably not meant to be used together. I think they are strong adhesives.

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Phil T
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby Phil T » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:21 pm

JB Weld is a US made, two part epoxy. For marine applications:

https://www.jbweld.com/product/marineweld-twin-tube
1992 Outrage 17
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CYRIL97150
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby CYRIL97150 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:25 pm

Thank you so much I was looking also ;-)

jimh
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby jimh » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:44 pm

Maybe someone can tell us about PC-7, too. Maybe it refers to this product:

https://www.pcepoxy.com/products/perman ... ste-epoxy/

biggiefl
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby biggiefl » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:52 pm

Clarification....Most people are familiar with JB Weld so hence why I put that there as it would probably do the job. I however used the PC-7. If you go to the link Jim provided you will see at the bottom it says repair holes in a fuel tank. This stuff(if mixed properly) is brutally strong. I once used it to put a broken oar back together and row a boat with it(9' Squall). The Squall OEM oars are very good quality and have a rubber sleeve with a built in oar lock so it was worth the try as you can imagine finding another or the cost.

The last I heard the tank was never replaced which was a couple/few years ago. Most tanks I have seen fail are usually pin holes on the top where the water usually lays.

I also repaired the fuel tank on my jeep back around the same time. It has rotted where the strap goes to hold it up. I used PC-7 and then rubber undercoated it and put it back in. I would do the same with a boat tank.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

jimh
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby jimh » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:22 pm

I wish I had known about PC-7 epoxy. I had a really nice 1993 Ford Crown Victoria, but the oil pan had several pin hole leaks. You could not drop the oil pan on that engine due to interference with a chassis crossbeam. I eventually sold the car when I bought a larger boat that needed a bigger tow vehicle. But that black Crown VIc with tan leather upholstery and a V8 was a great highway cruiser. Today it would be a classic. Oh well, you can't fix everything.

Whal
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby Whal » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:16 pm

PC7 is great stuff, I have used it on a tractor gas tank with pin holes and never had any leaks. Also I used it to repair a professional grade chainsaw. The saw had a one piece magnizium case that included the gas tank and the gas tank area got hit with a grab hammer and cracked. Rather than replacing the whole case the chainsaw dealer said he had a new product he would try to fix that crack with first and it was PC7. That chainsaw was used almost daily for years and the gas tank never leaked. I have believed in PC7 ever since: even with all the vibration of a large chainsaw, PC7 held.

quickenberger
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby quickenberger » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:06 pm

Since it has been getting good praise, I ordered PC-7 and may use of it on my Frontier project.

If the aluminum was acid etched would adhesion be better?

biggiefl
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Re: 1995 OUTRAGE 24: Repair Fuel Tank

Postby biggiefl » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:44 am

If you have the etching acid, use it. It is always a good idea to have as clean a surface as possible. We did not etch it. Basically a good scrub and some scotch brite to give it some grip.

PS. you can buy it just about anywhere. It is not an online only product.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).