2003 160 Ventura: Changing to Hydraulic Steering

[Eric801]

The OEM steering on my 2003 160 VENTURA with Mercury 115-HP engine has broken. To replace the Teleflex 4.2 NFB steering with new components is turning out to not be as easy as I had hoped. The Teleflex 4.2 NFB steering has always been stiff, and at the ripe young age of 64 I really don't want to be wrestling with the wheel. I would like to have hydraulic steering.

Q1: has hydraulic steering been installed on a c.2003 160 VENTURA?

The dual console Ventura has a different dash set-up and different angles than a center console.

In talking to [SeaStar Solutions] I learned:

--SeaStar Solutions now makes [the SeaStar Solutions SSX17718 XTREME Tilt No Feedback Steering Kit] which is said to be 30-percent easier steering than my existing 4.2 NFB. The delivery time is four to six weeks.

--the BayStar or SeaStar hydraulic kit does not come with a behind-the-dash helm. The kit helm would move the steering wheel three to five inches closer to the captain chair. The reduced distance between the wheel and chair will make a tight squeeze. I will not be able to swing my seat to see what is going on behind me. Buying the non-kit system is prohibitively expensive.

There is another brand of hydraulic steering called Uniflex Go Tech 10. I do not know much about it

Give me your advice [on adding hydraulic steering to a c.2003 160 VENTURA].

Fig. 1. Two men angling from a boat. The registration numbers of the boat are intentionally obscured. The man standing appears to talk on a cellular telephone.

160Ventura1a.jpg (25.37 KiB) Viewed 4695 times

Fig. 2. View of transom and engine rigging.

160Ventura2a.jpg (37.17 KiB) Viewed 4694 times

Fig. 3. The forefinger of the left hand points at a helm steering with tilt feature.

160Ventura3a.jpg (24.18 KiB) Viewed 4691 times

[jimh]

I would like to have hydraulic steering.

Hydraulic steering would be a nice improvement. The BAYSTAR hydraulic steering for engines under 150-HP is probably the least expensive hydraulic steering system.

I presume that Figure 3 above shows the present helm on the 2003 160 VENTURA boat. That helm seems to project several inches from the dashboard.

On most hydraulic helm steering pumps the mounting is the same as the BAYSTAR; there is a vented filler cap on the top of the pump which needs to be accessible so that hydraulic fluid can be added. TELEFLEX makes an accessory that allows the filler to be extended if the helm pump is mounted so the filler is behind the dashboard bulkhead, but I don't think that will be workable in your situation due to the limited vertical space.

Give me your advice [on adding hydraulic steering to a c.2003 160 VENTURA].

You mention that the hydraulic steering will move the steering wheel three to five inches closer to the seat. If more clearance is needed between the steering wheel and the helm seat, the simplest and easiest way to increase the separation will be to move the helm seat base toward the stern by whatever distance is desired. The seat base could likely be moved without too much effort. To conceal the old mounting holes, make a rectangular base plate or eschutcheon. The base plate could be made from a material like KING StarBoard, and it could be perhaps 1-inch thick. This would raise the seat--probably a welcomed change. You could use recessed flat head screws in the plate, threading upward into sex-bolts or cap nuts on the seat base to fasten the seat to the plate. Then use the original mounting holes in the deck to fasten the plate to the deck. This would avoid making any new holes in the deck. Or you could drill and tap the KING Starboard to receive the mounting bolts from the seat base. An inch of threads into the KING StarBoard ought to give sufficient purchase and holding strength to firmly fix the seat base onto the mounting plate.

Moving the seat aft to create more clearance seems like a simpler approach than try to modify the dash to permit the hydraulic steering helm pump to be mounted behind the dashboard. However, you could consider the modification. Such a modification would be more difficult than moving the seat, and to conceal the modification or make its appearance more harmonious with the OEM configuration will require some laminating and gel coat work.

The delivery time is four to six weeks.

Was this substantial delay related to suspension of manufacturing plant operations due to nation-wide restrictions related to the pandemic?

As I infer from your comments, SeaStar Solutions propose using a rear-mounting helm pump, but you seem to reject that option on the basis of cost. Sometimes spending more up-front produces savings later. In this case, if you used the more expensive rear-mount helm pump, you would get increased distance between wheel and seat, and you would avoid having to move the seat. Those benefits of the more expensive solution may be worth the increased cost.

ASIDE: at the door of a carpentry shop I often visited, there was a sign that said: GOOD--FAST--CHEAP: pick two.

[biggiefl]

Q2: What broke? If just a cable, replace it and go for $100. If it was stiff, that is why it broke.

I do not think the hydraulic would stick out more than your helm, a standard helm, yes it would.

[Phil T]

I repeat what Nick says above.

Q2a: What broke'?

All cable steering need to be lubricated. I will bet your steering cable is stiff due to a lack of lubrication and rust in the engine tilt tube.

My personal opinion is that hydraulic steering on a boat that has an outboard engine less than 150 hp is unnecessary complexity, added annual maintenance (bleeding, filling, seals, etc.) and cost. Do a search and read all the threads on "leaking steering."

[GoldenDaze]

I can't comment specifically on the 160 Ventura console dash space, but here's my article on replacing the Teleflex no-feedback steering with a Baystar hydraulic system on my 160 Dauntless:

http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3456&p=20810

The helm pump mounts inside the console and the wheel isn't any further aft than it was before.

I don't often find myself disagreeing with Phil, but it was a really nice upgrade, and not especially difficult.

-Bob

[Jefecinco]

A consideration in selecting a hydraulic steering system brand may be that Boston Whaler manufactures boats with Uflex systems, probably called Uniflex at some point. We are very pleased with ours on a 190 Montauk with a 135 HP engine. Ours has required the steering ram end caps replaced about every five years. An inexpensive and easy DIY repair.

[Eric801]

[The responses contain] great advice.

GoldenDaze: [your prior article on installation of hydraulic steering to a 160 VENTURA is a] great resource.

The helm pump mounts inside the console and the wheel isn't any further aft than it was before.

This is a very notable comment. I just sat in my 160 VENTURA boat while holding the old helm and wheel in place. The distance from the dash to the underside of the wheel hub is 5.5-inches. Pictures of the Baystar seem to look like the bezel doesn't stick out much more than [the NBF 4.2 steering] I have.

Q3: GoldenDaze: do you know the distance [from dashboard to the underside of the steering wheel] on your boat?

do a search and read all the threads on "leaking steering."

I will do

Q4: Are people not connecting the hoses properly?

What broke'?

I think 'we' forced the wheel when the cable had not been greased often enough and stripped the gears inside the helm.

TELEFLEX makes an accessory that allows the filler to be extended...

I will watch for that or use the idea to remove the compass

...you mention that the hydraulic steering will move the steering wheel three to five inches closer to the seat

Knowing what I know now, I think I will first [install the new steering and] then see if i need to move the seat.

Because hydraulic [steering] is going to be so much easier to steer, the need to have both feet firmly planted on the floor, butt tight against the saddle, and both arms on the wheel won't be necessary. If [the new steering has] tilt [the new steering] it might just work with the seat as-is. If the seat needs to be moved, I will do that after [the new steering is installed].

Was this substantial delay related to suspension of manufacturing due to the pandemic.

I don't know.

SeaStar Solutions propose using a rear-mounting helm pump, but you seem to reject that option on the basis of cost.

I do hear well what you are saying. Up here in the great white north the Sea Star will cost more than $2,000.

GoldenDaze: is the maintenance on the BayStar been a problem for you? Have you had to change seals?

You have much the same set up as me: same engine and same length. You are almost the perfect resourse

My local retailer here says the stock hoses are junk and wants me to buy aftermarket hoses for $200 ($140-USD). Is this over sell?

Here the BayStar is $1,299 ($909-USD). To save $390 I will buy in the states and ship it up.

Give me suggestions on whom to buy from stateside.

--Eric

[jimh]

Eric--use the money you save on health insurance in Canada to buy the new steering. :-)

[jimh]

GOLDEN DAZE: (Bob)--your article on installation of hydraulic steering on a 160 VENTURA is really all that is needed to answer the initial questions raised in this discussion about any problems occuring related to distance from helm to seat. Your article is a gold mine of information. My congratulations on the excellent resource you provide.

[jimh]

Give me suggestions on whom to buy from stateside.

This is a totally different topic. Exporting retail purchases to Canada by commercial vendors in the USA won't vary with the goods being imported. Check with Canadian customs for procedures necessary. Find a vendor with experience in doing this.

[Phil T]

I would replace the broken helm and install a new cable. Add a steersman nut to the steering cable and pocket the $700 USD you will save.

[GoldenDaze]

I'll take a measurement next week when I'm with the boat, but really it's no different than it was before. The mounting base is the same between the NFB and the Baystar and the tilt mechanism is virtually the same (but NOT interchangeable). Compare the image of the old tilt mechanism (either mine or yours, they are the same) with the image of the new tilt mechanism in the box. The only size difference is that the hydraulic pump mechanism INSIDE the console is quite a bit larger than the old mechanical mechanism.

If you go with the Baystar system, you need to order very carefully and be sure to get the kit version that includes the tilt helm. As I've said too many times already, but can't stress enough, your old tilt mechanism will not work with the Baystar helm. In a brief web search, I found lots of Baystar kits that don't have a tilt helm, and very few that do. One of them is at http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/1-BAYSTART.htm and it has the advantage of a dimensioned drawing that should tell you more accurately than I could how much space is needed.

It's been 5 years since I installed the hydraulic system and I have had no problems whatsoever.

Jim, this site has been a tremendous resource for me for many years. “When you learn, teach; when you get, give.” --Maya Angelou

-Bob

[Eric801]

...you need to order very carefully and be sure to get the kit version that includes the tilt helm.

[SeaStar Solutions] wrote to me:

Thanks for following up. [SeaStar] does not offer a tilt kit. You would buy the parts separate buy choosing the helm HH5260-3 , hoses HO51xx, and ram HC4645-3, with oil, and it would be fine. The numbers provided were to keep the wheel in the same spot

I"ll do some more research on what a la carte purchase is going to cost. :)

[jimh]

A drawing showing dimensions of the suggested HH-5260-3 helm pump is available at

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-hz7o37/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/3707/2664/hh5260__45041.1489440209.gif

If you are willing to give up the tilt feature, the front-mounting BAYSTAR system won't put the wheel any farther away from the dashboard as you have it now with the NFB and Tilt system.