GUARDIAN 18 Adding T-Top

[Cruz_Life]

Hello,
I’m a new owner of a GUARDIAN 18. I would like to add a T-Top.

How will a T-Top affect boat performance?

The engine is a Mercury 150-HP FOURSTROKE VERADO.

What T-Top should I buy?

Which mounting method is you recommendation: attach to center console or attach to the deck?

Thank you
Tito

[jimh]

The effect of a T-Top will be to add weight and to increase wind drag.

The effect of adding weight is to decrease boat acceleration and speed.

The effect of adding wind drag is to generate a force in opposition to the boat’s forward force. The orientation of the opposing force will a vector sum of the true wind and the boat wind actioning on the projected area of the T-Top and its supports. The wind drag will also create a overturning moment on the T-Top frame which must resisted by the fasteners at the attachment points.

The boat fore and aft trim and lateral trim can be affected.

[Cruz_Life]

Thanks for the information. [A T-Top] might not be the right thing for this boat.

Do you have any other recommendations for shade and rod mounting?

I’m also looking for somewhere to put our surfboards

Thank you

[Phil T]

There is nothing wrong with adding a t-top. Expect a loss of top speed of 5-7mph.

The t-top should be attached to the floor AND the console.

If you have boards I would consider adding a Flytop or bimini and a custom arch with board racks.

One other option is to modify the t-top with racks for the boards. A custom t-top will give you what you want and be strong and secure.

Ball park pricing:

Bimini $500-800
Arch $3,000
T-top with racks $4-5,000
A prefab t-top will not be designed for the added board weight.

[Cruz_Life]

...pricing:

Bimini $500-800
Arch $3,000
T-top with racks $4-5,000
A prefab t-top will not be designed for the added board weight.

Pricey set up! Good food for thought.

I will probably run for a while and see how long I can endure the wind and sun. At that point assess the option. May move up in size and get something with more protection. Thanks

[jimh]

A Flying Top wii provide more useful shade than most T-Tops.

What is the latitude where you use the boat?

[Cruz_Life]

A Flying Top will provide more useful shade than most T-Tops.

What is the latitude where you use the boat?

I’m in Southern California.

What is a Flying Top?

[jimh]

A Flying Top was part of the Weather Canvas package offered by Boston Whaler. They were made by and are still available from the Wm. J. Mills & Co. Sailmakers of Greenport, New York.

[jimh]

The closer to the Equator the more effective the shade from a T-Top because the sun will be higher in the sky and shadow cast will remain mostly on the boat. The generally very tall height of a T-Top makes their effectiveness at creating shade on the boat less than a Flying Top which will have much less headroom when standing under it.

[jimh]

A further problem with adding a T-Top to a Boston Whaler boat not specifically designed for attachment of a T-Top will be the overturning forces created by trailering at highway speeds. Also, a fixed in place T-Top adds substantial vertical draft to the boat, creating problems for storing the boat or trailering the boat or passing under bridges and other overhead obstructions when underway on the water. The payback for all these encumbrances is limited shade and weather protection.

[Cruz_Life]

A further problem with adding a T-Top to a Boston Whaler boat not specifically designed for attachment of a T-Top will be the overturning forces created by trailering at highway speeds. Also, a fixed in place T-Top adds substantial vertical draft to the boat, creating problems for storing the boat or trailering the boat or passing under bridges and other overhead obstructions when underway on the water. The payback for all these encumbrances is limited shade and weather protection.

Thanks for all your input. This leads me back to where I started. The traditional Bimini? How do you feel it out it? I do like the shade. But aside from that. No rode holders or ability to tie anything down on top. Also when open, and fishing it seems like a lot of obstacles to get passed if the fish has you waking around. Maybe a traditional beach umbrella kept onboard is all I need.

[Phil T]

Many owners in California remove rails for more maneuverability while fishing so a custom racks added to the aft end of the bow rail and the aft side rails will not be an option.

This will be an exercise in compromise.

Anything you install may inhibit your freedom of movement while fishing. T-Tops are preferred over bimini's by the hard core fishing owners.

How many boards do you want to carry? How many do you need to carry?
How long, wide and the weight of each?
How often do you fish?
Crew size?
# of rods deployed

Where in the boat do you predominantly stand?

Which area would you be able to live with that was slightly restricted: Bow or stern?

[PeterO]

I appreciate that the utility of a T-Top will vary according to how a boat is used, but let me share my personal experience and views....

During my career as a research biologist I used many 19-22' Guardians, which are very popular with government agencies, but had never used one with a T-Top or Bimini. I was impressed with the stability, ride, and seaworthiness of the Guardian, but we were directly exposed to the elements and normally wore rain gear or cruiser suits.

When I retired, I purchased a new Guardian 21 for fishing, crabbing, prawning, exploring and gunkholing. New Guardians are all factory ordered and custom configured. I thought long and hard about the T-Top option, which added significant cost (an additional $7K, whereas the basic boat was only $26K), and I was also concerned about the extra drag. I ultimately went for the T-Top, and consider it the best decision I made. The factory T-Top is very heavy duty, and includes an overhead electronics box with electrical panel for VHF, radar, spot light, audio system, etc. It also includes an overhead nylon mesh storage bag for emergency charts, life jackets, rain gear, etc., all accessible from the helm. I installed a series of rocket launchers on the aft rail of the T-Top, which are great for fishing rods which are otherwise awkward to store and tend to get in the way. The top provides protection from overhead sun for one or two people at the helm, but more importantly for a boat used year-round in British Columbia, shelter from rain. It really changes the characteristics of the boat, and rather than being completely exposed to the elements, I can comfortably fish or wait for a crew or traps to fill while its pouring rain.

I've always considered the ability to freely walk-around as an important asset of a centre console boat, which the T-Top does not affect. I would think that straps for a Bimini Top that extend to the rails or gunwales would be a hinderance when it comes to walking around wielding boat hooks, pulling traps and nets, or playing fish, especially multiple fish at the same time (I configured the boat with midship side rails so the bow and stern are completely open).

I keep the boat in the water year-round, so wasn't too concerned about towing. However, I did tow the boat from the factory in Edgewater, FL home to Vancouver Island, British Columbia with a 6 cyl Toyota 4 Runner without any problems (but the boat was dry, without gear, batteries or power). I'm not sure how the T-Top has affected performance, but I find the boat to be adequately powered with a F200 Yamaha (the boat is rated for 150-300 HP). I'm content cruising at 20-25 kts at 4000-4500 rpm, with a top speed of ~32 kts WOT 6700 rpm. The specs for a 21' Montauk (same hull but lighter fibreglass lay-up and no T-Top) with a 200 Merc is 24-28 kts at 4000-4500 rpm, and 36 kts with WOT 6900 rpm. My mileage seems to be roughly 10-20% less than the Montauk specs.

So based on my personal use and experience, I had not appreciated the utility of a T-Top and now would never consider another Whaler without one.

Peter O.

[biggiefl]

$7k for a T-Top?

[Jefecinco]

The few T-Tops I've seen on Guardians were far more robustly constructed than your typical locally fabricated top or the tops installed on production boats by the builder. I've also seen some very robust tops from fabricators and builders but they were exceptions.

Inexpensive and Boston Whaler are seldom correctly used in the same sentence;=)

[biggiefl]

My 1994 Hydra-Sports was ordered new from the factory. It has a pipewelders T-Top with aluminum radio box/fuse panel, 5 gold rocket launchers, grab handles, all the antenna pads and sunbrella canvas. I believe it was around a $2600 option. It was one of the nicest tops I have seen and still in use today. I have been on newer Whalers(late 90's early 2000's) and the quality was on par if not subpar due to radio box quality. $7k blows me away unless a fiberglass hardtop for a Conquest.

Off topic. I still stick with my initial post about a T-top on a 18' boat being too much and possibly unsafe. They do however make getting on the boat from a dock or walking around the gunwale a breeze. The con is colder weather and lack of warming sun, bridge clearance, cross wind or quartering wind manipulation, and watching fireworks.

[PeterO]

The Guardian T-Top was $7105 US direct from factory, which is about 75% retail if you could order one. Yes, very expensive, especially when paying in Cdn $. But for me well worth the price. I'm getting older and becoming a fair weather wimp who is less inclined to want to bundle up and face the elements, but with the T-Top I'm more inclined to use and enjoy the boat year-round in all weather.

The Guardian T-Top is aluminum with an electrical box and much more skookum than the fibreglass top offered on the 210 Montauk, which retails for $8276 US. The Montauk top comes with 4 rod holders, whereas I purchased mine for $100 Cdn each.

Peter O.

Addendum: The same T-Top was offered as an option on the 19' Guardian for the same price. The tops are rated to carry 150 lbs of gear, and military and enforcement builds often load them up. The T-Tops are offered as a factory install only, so presumably include some extra reinforcement in the hull.

210 Guardian with T-Top - Rear View.jpg (166.34 KiB) Viewed 5146 times

210 Guardian with T-Top - Front View.jpg (165.67 KiB) Viewed 5146 times

210 Guardian with T-Top Electrical Box.jpg (107.86 KiB) Viewed 5146 times

[jimh]

The Boston Whaler OEM T-Top is properly engineered and designed, and the hull it will attach to also carefully designed to bear the loads. An aftermarket T-Top will not be anything like a Boston Whaler T-Top, and the hull won’t have been redesigned for a T-Top.

The engineers at Boston Whaler use sophisticated descn tools to match the strength of the T-Top frame structure at the point of attachment to the hull to the rigidity of the hull, and in that way the T-Top is not stiffer than the hulk or vice versa. Unless the two structures have the same flexibility, the movement of one will tend to cause cracks in the other. Buying some random aftermarket T-Top and bolting it down to some random places in the hull of a Boston Whaler boat usually results in the welds in the T-Top breaking or the hull cracking, depending on which part had greater stiffness.

At the latitude of Vancouver I am surprised a T-Top would cast any shadow on the cockpit unless you always kept the boat pointed into the Sun.

[biggiefl]

That [Brunswick Commercial and Government Products 210 GUARDIAN OEM factory designed and factory installed T-Top shown in several illustrations above] is nearly identical to the one I had on my Hydra-Sports sans the powder coating and lack of rod holders. I liked the way they had dual rails above—one for the top to be tied to and one as a grab rail. Most of the cheaper tops use one rail and the fabric is not wrapped around it so you have to grab between the strings that hold it on.

[jimh]

Notwithstanding the excellent design, fabrication, and installation of a Boston Whaler T-Top on a hull engineered for one, the effect of a T-Top on performance does not change. The T-Top adds weight and air resistance or drag.