Outrage 22 Fuel Fill Hose 90-degree Curved Fitting

[Spc337]

I'm replacing the fuel filler hose [on an 1979 OUTRAGE V-22]. I want to avoid the belly [or depression in the horizontal portion of the hose] that [is] between the gunwale and fuel tank. Using modern hoses makes this installation a [challenge], The bend really needs to be tight. To keep the hose elevated [in the horizontal portion of the routing] I'd like to use a 90-degree fitting and ideally use a fitting with a curved 90-degree turn not a hard right angle.

Can a 90-degree fitting be used?

Will a 90-degree fitting invite a leak?

Does a fitting exist that has a curved 90-degree turn?

Thanks

[Phil T]

Can a 90-degree fitting be used?

Yes

Will a 90-degree fitting invite a leak?

Not if double stainless steel clamps are used.

Does a fitting exist that has a curved 90-degree turn?

Yes, your choice of plastic or brass.

In doing some research in the archives, while some models had a elbow, most did not. Owners with boats without an elbow did not add them and those with an elbow reused them.

It is completely feasible to replace the fill hose (with the embedded wire) without installing an elbow. The suggestion to help make the turn is to sue a hair dryer directing hot air on the area of the turn to allow the rubber hose to be more flexible.

[Vance's Revenge]

When I installed my replacement fuel tank on my 1980 Revenge 22. I had an elbow made out of aluminum for that bend also for the vent hose. I had them welded in the center of 1/4-inch flat bar to fit the cavity in the floor. That way I could seal the flat bar plate on the deck and prevent water on the deck from getting under the deck to the tank. The outcome was terrific and the elbows work as designed. Fuel fills normally.

You can easily go to any fabricator that welds aluminum and have them make an elbow from aluminum tubing. Use two, quality, stainless hose clamps on each side and you are good.

Vance

[Spc337]

Thanks Vance. I vaguely recall photos of your creation but not sure I can find them.

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[Vance's Revenge]

I have many photographs of all aspects of my rebuild. I'm happy to help in any way. I can send them to you via email or text. My phone number is (916) 225-2790. email is: vancestaplin@gmail.com. You can call with any questions as well--I will help if I can.

[jimh]

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[jimh]

Regarding the suggestion to use a plastic fitting with a gasoline fuel filler hose: I have some concern about use of plastic fittings with gasoline. I recommend you check carefully before using a plastic fitting to be sure the material is rated for gasoline and that general boat construction guidelines such as the ABYC recommendations endorse the use of plastic fittings for carrying gasoline fuel.

[Vance's Revenge]

Below in Figures 1, 2, and 3 the fuel filler hose and fuel vent hose manifold that was fabricated are shown mounted in the boat.

The fit [on an OUTRAGE 22} for the vent line may be tight. You should be able to do something similar for the fuel filler hose without the base plate.

In Figure 3 the deck is shown for comparison to the factory appearance.

The hull behind the manifold base plate was strengthened with epoxy so the sealant to have something to grab and also to strengthen the hull. I also strengthened the hull with fiberglass and epoxy for the mounting screws.

Fig. 1. Close up view of manifold fabricated to create 90-degree bend in fuel filler and tank vent hoses.

Whaler Pic Fuel fill Manifold plumbed without cover.jpg (106.23 KiB) Viewed 4087 times

Fig. 2. Overall view of fuel tank filler hose and fuel tank vent house routing.

whaler pic fuel fill tank to top uncovered.jpg (71.8 KiB) Viewed 4082 times

Fig. 3. Deck reinstalled

Whaler painted port side fill pic after install-paint.jpg (46.01 KiB) Viewed 4087 times

[Spc337]

Thanks for the illustrations of your manifold. I like the idea of trying to waterproof that area.

I never could understand why the original design allows for such ingress of water even if they thought it would simply flow over the top of the tank. Why does the trough that you installed a pipe for the vent hose even exist? it has no way to allow water to escape.

I won't mind installing a drain so I don't have standing water. I think you turned me on to fiberglass pipes when I started my rebuild. I had to pause for a while but back at it.

I'll have to see if I can find a fab shop willing to take that on. If I just stick with cramming the hose in place, and there is a slight valley to the line, do you see that as a problem both in filling and while running? I would think any trapped fuel would eventually drain into the tank while running the boat.

I installed a drain from the fuel compartment to the rear fish box. I'll use a plug to control the flow between areas albeit the plug is not easy to reach when the decks are all on.

Regards

[Vance's Revenge]

SPC337--I did replace all of my through holes with fiberglass tubes and added a tube between the fish box and fuel tank cavity for inspection. The drains will never leak or have to be replaced again.

Was that you I spoke with on the phone a couple years ago?

Could you imagine if the original designers did this with fiberglass instead of brass what wonderful boats we would have today? No water in the foam

I did install a tube into what I call a tunnel to nowhere so I could route the vent hose into it. Came out nicely and it is functional.

I have to believe they made that tunnel for strength, but it sure makes no sense with the original design open on top when you add water. That is why I changed it.

With the fuel tank cover removed, doing this is easy. But, if you don't seal the top, water will just run down into your tank cavity and fill up if your tank is not foamed in.

If you want to keep the original design I don't see any problems with the original bend in the fill hose.

My whole goal creating the fuel hose manifold was to prevent water from getting below the deck. I did the same thing on the starboard side as well and sealed off the rigging tunnel just bow side of the drain sump. No water gets under my floor now. You can't do that on an Outrage because of the rigging down the tunnel. But, if you can figure a way to seal your tank cover at the rigging tunnel when you install your cover, and fill the factory hole between the rigging tunnel and the tank cavity you may be able to keep water from backing up the drain sump and rigging tunnel to you tank.

Vance

[jimh]

A simple method to help fuel flow into the tank and not become settled in a low area in the horizontal run from the port side into the tank: while adding fuel or immediately after adding fuel, move all crew weight to the starboard side of the cockpit. This will create a list to starboard, and any fuel that remains in the horizontal portion of the fuel tank filler hose should then flow toward the fuel tank.

[Phil T]

To keep water out of the fuel cavity of an 1979-1992 Outrage model, the flange on the fuel tank cover around the rigging should be sealed with the deck.

If a flange is not present, one can install one.

If the deck receives significant water frequently, replace the factory flange with a round flange and rigging hose similar to that used in engine rigging. eg. https://thmarinesupplies.com/collections/rigging/products/rigging-flange-hose-kits?variant=32003217948715

[Vance's Revenge]

I found there are at least three ways for water to get under the deck into the fuel tank cavity on these classic Outrage and Revenge models. Unfortunately the original design was to direct water to that area run across the tank and out the hole at the top of the tank into the starboard rigging tunnel and out the drain sump.

Water access areas that come to mind:

• Next to the fuel tank filler and vent hoses behind the cover on the Port side, which is why I made the manifold pictured above to seal that off.
• Water running backwards from the drain sump, up the rigging tunnel through the drain hole into the tank area. Think about this. If you have your plug out of the drain sump and not on plane. Water is level with the underside of the floor so the whole rigging tunnel and drain sump is full of water. That means your tank area is flooded through the hole in your rigging tunnel as well. This is the way they originally designed the boat.
• My cover over the fish box was poorly designed. There were close to 1-inch gaps towards the stern side between the hull structure and the bottom of the floor cover. The factory apparently knew this design flaw so they just pored a thick layer of silicone there as a poor effort to fill the gap. It didn't work and if the fish box was flooded water had access through there into the port side rigging tunnel which leads to the tank. Essentially, the original design was based on flooding the tank area and the foam level with the tank kept the tank area from filling. We all know that the foam soaks up water—which the factory denied.
• My boat didn't have sealant around the fuel line where it passes through the fish box into the tank area. I don't know if the factory originally did it that way or not. But a flooded fish box meant water backing into the tank area

Because I could run all rigging down the gunwales on my Revenge 22 it was easier to prevent water from accessing the tank than it is on an Outrage.

This is what I did:

• Made the manifold above for the port side fuel fill access
• Did the same type manifold on the starboard side. Used aluminum tubing to come up through the manifold to run the tank ground and gauge sending wire down through. But before I did that I ran the wiring through bilge hose that was clamped to the aluminum tube similar to the fuel hose on the port side. Water can no longer get under the deck behind either the port or starboard inspection covers.
• Sealed the original hole that is level with the top of the tank to the Starboard rigging tunnel.
• Made a wall with a 1" plug at the bottom for inspection to block the starboard rigging tunnel off just bow side of the drain sump. You cannot do this on an Outrage because you need the rigging tunnel. My drain sump works as it was designed but no longer has access to the rigging tunnel.
• Added fiberglass to the underside of the fish box cover to get the gaps filled as close as possible. Then masked the hull structure, then put wax over the masking tape to prevent sticking. Then filled the top of the structure with thick bead (better than 1" high and wide) of West Systems Six10 and screwed the deck cover down. After it set up, I pulled the cover up. The Six10 became part of the cover and eliminated the gap in the cover. Remove the wax and masking tape and its a perfect fit ready to install with sealant.

For Outrages:

I believe it is possible to seal off the tank on an Outrage but it will completely depend on whether you can get the tank cover to seal along the starboard rigging tunnel and plug off the drain hole that is flush with the top of the tank.

You also would not need to block off the access behind the starboard inspection cover because water will be in there from the drain sump anyway.


After thought on all of this:

I chose to not fill the tank area with foam and that is a big mistake if you do not put a drain/inspection tube at the bottom between the tank cavity and the fish box for inspection. Because if water does get in there it will flood the entire cavity up to the hole to rigging tunnel at the top of the tank. Or higher if the drain hole to the rigging tunnel is blocked off.

Another way to go when replacing the tank would be to leave the boat as designed, fill the tank area with foam level with the top of the tank. Then epoxy coat the tank and top the entire tank and foam with a barrier of thin fiberglass/epoxy resin attached to the tank cavity. This should stick to the epoxy on the tank and create a barrier that prevents water from getting to the foam/tank; and still run in and out the drain to the rigging tunnel. In theory that is! Not sure if it would work. For starters; it would need to be vented for expansion.

[Vance's Revenge]

Below is a view of the starboard side as I described above. This is only necessary on Revenge models.

The bilge hose prevents water from getting under the deck and also acts as a vent to the sub floor/tank cavity. The supply hose in the picture originated at the transom, routes through a through-hull tube in the engine splash well into the rear fish box, takes a 90-degree turn there through a tube in the wall into the port side tunnel across the fuel tank up through this manifold and leads to a wash down pump I mounted out of the way behind the cabin support structure aft of the helm.

Whaler Pic Starboard Manifold finished-with wiring-Washdown supply.jpg (66.54 KiB) Viewed 3987 times