Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
Pogiepika
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Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby Pogiepika » Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:11 am

Hello, I’ve seen some very knowledgeable folks on [CONTINUOUSWAVE.COM]. I hope to get their advice to keep me from making any mistakes with my boat.

I’ve come into possession of a [1997 or 1998--ALWAYS USE FOUR DIGITS FOR A YEAR] Dauntless 13. The boat has been in my family since it was new. I love this boat and it has sentimental value to me so I don’t want to sell and replace. It still has its original Evinrude 35-HP two-stroke-power-cycle engine. I believe the DAUNTLESS 13 is rated to 50-HP.

I cannot find information about the maximum engine weight for a c.1997 DAUNTLESS 13.

The c.1997 DAUNTLESS 13 has been great over the years, but the Evinrude 35-HP engine has been a little janky since 2016. [The Evinrude 25-HP engine] has trouble with idle when cold.

The c.1997 DAUNTLESS 13 boat has always felt a little under-powered. The boat takes a while to plane if there is no weight in the bow.

I intend to use the boat primarily for angling in reservoirs with attitudes as hight a 9,500-feet. I will also use the boat [at sea level] on the Texas coast [of the Gulf of Mexico].

My plans for modifications are:
  1. to re-power with new four-stroke-power-cycle engine of 40 to 50-HP fuel-injected engine and probably a HONDA or a TOHATSU;
  2. to remove bow rail because the bow rail gets in the way when angling with a fly rod;
  3. to increase the fuel tank capacity, perhaps with a MOELLER on-deck fuel tank installed under a seat;
  4. to install a fish finder
  5. to install a trolling motor with a mounting plate for easy removal of the motor.
  6. to install a poling platform, butI am nervous the addition of pprox 50-lbs of poling platform to the stern will create more difficulty getting the boat on plane.

Please give advice on any of these six modification. Thanks.

[Corollary topic on use of fuel-injection to eliminate horsepower change with altitude is moved to a separate thread. See
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6140 --Moderator.]

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Phil T
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Re: Dauntless 13 mods

Postby Phil T » Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:30 pm

Note the following engine weights:

Mercury Fourstroke
40 hp (3 cylinder)....204lbs
40 hp (4 cylinder)....260lbs.
50/60hp...............247lbs.

Honda:
40/50 hp..............214lbs.
60hp...................239lbs

Suzuki:
40/50/60hp .........229lbs

[Moved comments on the effect of fuel-injection on operation at high-altitude to a separate thread--Moderator]

Note the minimum hp rating for the Dauntless 13 is 25hp.

Your limitation will be how much weight the hull can handle. Can the hull support the weight of a Mercury 60hp and the poling platform in the stern. I would consider revising your idea and look into building a bow platform instead to offset the larger engine weight.

Note there is a significant price difference between the Honda and the Suzuki.

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jimh
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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby jimh » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:12 pm

Pogiepika wrote:My plans for modifications are:
  1. to re-power with new four-stroke-power-cycle engine of 40 to 50-HP fuel-injected engine and probably a HONDA or a TOHATSU;
  2. to remove bow rail because the bow rail gets in the way when angling with a fly rod;
  3. to increase the fuel tank capacity, perhaps with a MOELLER on-deck fuel tank installed under a seat;
  4. to install a fish finder
  5. to install a trolling motor with a mounting plate for easy removal of the motor.
  6. to install a poling platform, butI am nervous the addition of pprox 50-lbs of poling platform to the stern will create more difficulty getting the boat on plane.


Re item 1 on the list: both HONDA and TOHATSU make good small four-stroke-poewr-cycle engines; I suggest you evaluate the selling dealer and his facility as well as the engine specifications. We don't really consider a re-power as a modification. Re-powering is generally discussed in the PERFORMANCE forum. You should start a separate topic in PERFORMANCE if you want to get advice on re-powering. It is a topic that deserves its own thread.

Re item 2: removing the bow railing generally will not be difficult. Be sure to seal any fastener holes that remain so no water can enter the interior of the hull. I recommend you retain the bow railing. You may find you prefer the boat with the bow railing more than without it.

Re item 3: MOELLER is a good brand for a plastic on-deck fuel tank, and they offer non-EPA-compliant tanks for boats like yours built before 2011. If you get a modern engine the fuel efficiency will improve significantly, so the need for greater fuel capacity may not be as strong as you seem to think.

Re item 4: installing a SONAR is generally well explained in the manufacturer's installation instructions. For advice on SONAR transducer mounting on Boston Whaler Unibond hulls see

SONAR Transducers
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/sonarTransducer.html

Re item 5: installation of a trolling motor to a Unibond hull can be a bit complicated. The trolling motor should be mounted in an area that has embedded reinforcement inside the hull laminate; the mount may need to be through-bolted. This topic deserves its own thread. When you choose a trolling motor, start a new thread to get advice about how it should be mounted. This thread cannot discuss in detail every topic you have raised.

Re item 6: adding the weight of a poling platform to the stern of a 13-foot Boston Whaler boat hull is an unusual modification. Since you have already mentioned that the boat has trouble accelerating onto place unless extra weight is moved to the bow, adding the weight of a poling platform will likely tend to increase the difficulty the boat will have with its trim angle when accelerating onto plane. Boats designed for having poling platforms over their outboard engines are often rather beamy boats with rather flat bottoms, and those hulls have more reserve buoyancy at the stern than a 13-foot Boston Whaler boat hull.

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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby jimh » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:44 pm

Since the boat was made after 1972 the hull will have a federally mandated HULL IDENTIFICATION NUMBER (HIN) on the transom. You can determine the year of the boat from the federal HIN. The FAQ answers your inferred question:

Q1: How Old Is My Whaler?
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q1

Jefecinco
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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby Jefecinco » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:03 am

We see a lot of "bay style boats" in our area of South Alabama. Many are equipped with poling platforms but I have never seen one in use after boating and angling here for almost 30 years. My experience when angling in very shallow water with our Dauntless 16 was that a poling platform would have so little use that it was not worth having. A paddle used from the area behind the RPS made silent approaches to fish easy. The thought of standing above deck on a small platform with no railing, poling to the desired position then climbing down to cast a lure seems unsafe. Stowing and using the pole would be inconvenient.

Someone with a lot of experience in good physical condition and much younger than me might find it a little less daunting.

I think those platforms are probably mostly used by professional guides who are not angling but attempting to put clients "on" fish.
Butch

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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:16 am

Pogiepika wrote:I cannot find information about the maximum engine weight for a c.1997 DAUNTLESS 13.


Boston Whaler did not provide specifications for the maximum engine weight for a 1997 DAUNTLESS 13. This probably explains why you cannot find that information.

The most reasonable method to deduce the maximum engine weight for a 1997 DAUNTLESS 13 boat is to infer that the weight of an outboard engine available in 1997 that has the the same horsepower as the maximum rated horsepower for the boat will be the maximum engine weight.

The weight of older outboard engines is collected in the thread WEIGHT OF OLDER OUTBOARD ENGINES. See

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/011042.html

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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:19 am

Pogiepika wrote:...this boat...has sentimental value to me...


After you take off the railing, put on a new engine, add a trolling motor, and add a poling platform, how much sentimental value will remain? I think the modified boat will have greater utilitarian value, but may lose sentimental value.

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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby biggiefl » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:27 am

Boston Whaler made a couple models designed specifically for fly fishing called a CROSS TACKLE. They did not have poling platforms. They did have a custom bow rail that I think allowed you to lean against while casting.

I do not see the need for a poling platform if you have a trolling motor.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

Pogiepika
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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby Pogiepika » Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:34 pm

jimh wrote:
Pogiepika wrote:...this boat...has sentimental value to me...

After you take off the railing, put on a new engine, add a trolling motor, and add a poling platform, how much sentimental value will remain? I think the modified boat will have utilitarian value, but may lose sentimental value.


Geez man. I appreciate any advice regarding the boat but I think I can decide how much my deceased dads boat means to me.
Last edited by Pogiepika on Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Pogiepika
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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby Pogiepika » Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:42 pm

Jefecinco wrote:We see a lot of "bay style boats" in our area of South Alabama. .....

I think those platforms are probably mostly used by professional guides who are not angling but attempting to put clients "on" fish.


All of our experience with skinny water fishing is with guides either in flats skiffs or pangas. These guys always pole so my assumption is that for spotting fish and stealth, platforms work the best. No way I’d try it solo though. I envision trading out poling and fishing duties with a partner. I had though to be using the trolling motor when fishing lakes and and deeper water where you are not sight fishing. The platform may be excessive though and I’m not 100% on it for now.

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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:19 pm

Pogiepika wrote:...I can decide how much my deceased dad[']s boat means to me.


Apparently you mean that there will be no loss in sentimental value to you even when the boat you have inhereited is modified from its former configuration.

If you invite a public discussion and solicit advice about the proposed modifications you are planning to make, you may find that you get some advice that is contrary to your own opinions. If you prefer to only hear advice that positively reinforces your plans, just inform readers to only reply to your request for advice with endorsing and positive comments.

Here are some other accounts of new owners restoring Boston Whaler boats they inherited from older family members

Low Country Fixer-Upper
A Restored 1970 Nauset

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage74.html

Grandfather's Whaler
A 1959 Classic Is Reborn

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage51.html

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Phil T
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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby Phil T » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:54 pm

Pogiepika--please do not be adversely affected by the comments of forum members. Occasionally the intent of a typed post can unintentionally be misconstrued.

In the end, it is always the owners choice, that is, you, on what to do to a boat and how it will be used.

Forum members are attempting to provide technical and practical support to your queries.
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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:03 pm

Pogiepika wrote:[The Evinrude 25-HP engine] has trouble with idle when cold.

Generally an older two-stroke-power-cycle engine will need some fuel-air mix enrichment to start. Most older engines provide some mechanism to accomplish that.

Once started, the engine made need to run at a faster than normal idle speed until the engine reaches operating temperature. On some engines that can be provided automatically by the engine electronic controls, but if the engine lacks an automatic fast-idle feature, the fast idle can be implemented while the engine is in neutral with a neutral-fast-idle auxiliary throttle lever or by other mechanical means.

The ability of older carburetor two-stroke-power-cycle outboard engines to start easily and run very nicely is quite good, as long as the engines are in good condition, in good tune, and the operator follows the factory starting procedures exactly as described in the operator's manual. Before giving up on the engine due to trouble with idle when cold, review the original operating manual to see the exact starting procedure recommended in the owner's manual and any warm-up fast-idle options.

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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:09 pm

Also re adding a trolling motor: modern outboard engines can idle at very low speeds, and remain at those speed for long time intervals without stalling or creating problems like fouled plugs. If you re-power with a modern four-stroke-power-cycle engine, you may find that the new engine provides excellent propulsion at trolling speeds. An added trolling motor may no be necessary.

An electric trolling motor at the bow will probably need its own battery for power. There will also be heavy power conductors needed to connect to the battery. These added complexities associated with using an electrical motor to provide propulsion for trolling ( a "trolling motor') should be weighed against the benefits of not using the main propulsion engine for trolling speed propulsion.

At one time when classic carburetor outboard engines produced awful fuel economy at idle or trolling speeds, and emitted lots of exhaust gas pollutants, using an alternative propulsion engine for trolling at low speeds made since. But with modern outboard engines that can propel the boat all day at slow idle speeds while producing fuel economies greater than 10-MPG, one ought to reconsider the need to have a separate and dedicated "trolling motor."

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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby Pogiepika » Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:06 pm

jimh wrote:Also re adding a trolling motor: modern outboard engines can idle at very low speeds,.......10-MPG, one ought to reconsider the need to have a separate and dedicated "trolling motor."


It’s amazing how much more sophisticated engines are these days. Back in the day we’d drag a bucket to slow boats down to trolling speed.

I think the new engines I’m considering would be great trolling ie pulling lures behind the boat, and I imagine we’d do some of that. I’m interested in a dedicated trolling motor because if its autopilot and Global Positioning System capabilities.

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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby Pogiepika » Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:22 pm

jimh wrote:
Pogiepika wrote:[The Evinrude 25-HP engine] has trouble with idle when cold.

Before giving up on the engine due to trouble with idle when cold, review the original operating manual to see the exact starting procedure recommended in the owner's manual and any warm-up fast-idle options.


Thats interesting. I’ve always had to idle at increased throttle in neutral for a minute or so before putting in gear to have any hope of not stalling when put into gear. I’ll have to find the original manual and see what their procedure is. I’m sure the old motor, which I’ve confirmed is a 40, not a 35, has some life left in it. My dad always really avoided paying qualified people to look at his stuff so I know the motor hasn’t seen a quality tune in a very long time.

Regardless though, even if the engine was running perfectly, a 40-HP engine will only be putting out about 28-HP at 10,000-feet elevation--which seems pretty low for this hull.

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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby Jefecinco » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:35 am

One more minor point on the use of a poling platform on a Dauntless 13 is that the Dauntless has a much more "V" shaped bottom than most skiffs making them more "tender" or prone to lean to the side whenever weight in the hull is shifted by occupants moving about. The motion would be more pronounced on a platform. I can testify that fractures aboard a boat make getting to medical help a difficult process.
Butch

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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby jimh » Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:15 pm

Regarding sighting of Boston Whaler boats with a poling platform over the engine, only one boat comes to mind: the somewhat famous GAMBLER of Dave Buckda. When Dave bought the boat it had been in use for some sort of sponsored and I assume competitive angling, and the boat's name reflected the sponsor, Gambler Lures. The boat also had a poling platform over the engine when it arrived in Michigan from Texas.

GAMBLERwithPolingPlatform.jpg
Fig. 1. GAMBLER an OUTRAGE 18, in an early form, still with single engine and poling platform, but now far away from Texas and in northern Lake Huron. Photo by Dave Buckda.
GAMBLERwithPolingPlatform.jpg (43.95 KiB) Viewed 5212 times


The orange decals on the hull sides were removed, but the name stuck: GAMBLER.

I recall that Dave once used the poling platform as a diving platform for making an athletic entry into the waters of Parry Sound on one of the many trips we took together. When the boat was re-powered with twin engines, the poling platform on the transom was removed.

ASIDE: there are two gerunds, poling and polling. If you use a pole to propel a boat you are poling, as in using a pole. If you ask people (or electronic devices) about their current status, you are polling as in taking a poll. The thread has been edited to use the correct form.

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Phil T
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Re-power Choices with Regard to Power and Weight

Postby Phil T » Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:55 am

[In reply to a comment in another thread which made reference to this thread, these remarked have been moved to the original thread--Moderator]

Re-power Choices with Regard to Power and Weight
Only the [boat] manufacturer has to comply with [the power limitation specified on] the capacity plate.

For [Pogiepika and his DAUNTLESS 13 boat] the [the deciding factor in engine choice] is engine weight.

I am not going to rehash the notion of if-can-you or if-you-cannot exceed power rating. You can exceed the power rating. And, yes, there are insurance companies that will provide policies.

If the weight of a 60-HP engine is the same as a 50-HP engine, you should do a cost analysis, and strongly consider [the 60-HP engine].
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Re: Dauntless 13 Six Modifications Proposed

Postby jimh » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:18 am

I am closing this thread. It has too many topics. Trying to discuss six disparate modifications in one thread is not particularly effective.

If the OP wants to solicit advice about engine choices for re-power, the proper forum for that topic is PERFORMANCE. Start a new thread in PERFORMANCE and give complete details about the boat, existing boat performance, engine choices, costs, weights, and actual data about obtained boat speeds with particular engines.