17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
fina
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17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby fina » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:07 pm

Have a 1977 17' Montauk that tree fell on bow. I am looking to fix myself

I have pics and would like serious advice as to how to go about repairing. The foam is holding it in place in a deformed shape.

Please email bill@wmawards.com and I will email pics

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Phil T
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby Phil T » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:58 pm

Bill was nice enough to send me 7 photos that I am hosting on his behalf.

Warning: For those with a weak stomach for damaged Whalers, don't look.

https://picasaweb.google.com/110044231333731607664/6278325283938865537?feat=directlink
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

fina
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby fina » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:33 am

admirable Phil!

looking forward to helpful replies

Jefecinco
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby Jefecinco » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:41 am

That is heart breaking. Good luck with the repair.
Butch

Binkster
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby Binkster » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:08 pm

From reading your other posts it appears that you buy damaged Whalers, fix them up and resell them. No doubt that this one was a total loss. If you have to ask for advice on this repair, you are way over your head. Personally I don't think it could or should be fixed. Part it out, you might make a few dollars.

rich

kwik_wurk
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby kwik_wurk » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:11 pm

ouch...

Since you stated you want to fix yourself, I am not going to try and convince you otherwise...

If I were to approach this, I would borrow another Montauk and make a female mold of the (top and bottom) section you need to fix. These mold would be used for extensive garage time to make a hand laid, wood backed and foam filled 'plug' that would then be heavily glassed into cut-out section of damage.

When this job is done, you'll have flawless arms, as you're looking at some serious sanding of complex shapes (chines and rub rail area).

fina
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby fina » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:17 pm

no winners yet on the advice front...keep them coming fellas

Oldslowandugly
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby Oldslowandugly » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:48 pm

Wowsers that is a mess. But anything can be fixed. I would start by stripping the area of rub-rail, cleats, everything. Then begin scooping out the old foam behind the damaged area. Then I would try to re-align everything to see if it would reasonably fit back together. You may need to build small braces inside to get the shape to hold. If it all lines up, then I would begin down low and start patching from the inside with strips of glass cloth and resin. Don't even think about the outer hull until the inside is done. Start small just to get the shape oriented. If you are satisfied with how it's going, then reinforce from behind with serious amounts of fiberglass. Applying the cloth in intersecting layers will add strength. Any missing pieces can be made up on a sheet of wax paper on cardboard, cut to size, and patched in. Work from the bottom up and as you get well along then add spray can expandable foam. Great Stuff brand comes to mind. Do small sections at a time so you can get at the backsides with the fiberglass and only add foam if you don't need access to the area any more. It will get tough in spots because the inner and outer skins will be pretty close together. A small roller on a long handle can get the resin into close quarters. Once the hull is intact then you can begin the outsides. Fiber glassing the scars is pretty straightforward. Grind back the edges, glass it in, sand flat, fair, and paint. I sure make it sound easy, eh?

fina
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby fina » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:17 am

That's the advice I was looking for!!!

Should I use cloth vs. mat?

What about epoxy vs. fiberglass resin?

Oldslowandugly
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby Oldslowandugly » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:55 pm

I've done some crazy repairs with fiberglass, so just be aware it's going to be a smelly nasty job. Epoxy is stronger but expensive. Polyester resin is pretty cheap by the gallon and you will be needing plenty. You will need a good supply of liquid hardener too. Get some Acetone by the gallon for cleanup. I like to use cheap throwaway paint brushes to spread resin and for cleanup. I buy them cheaply by the box at Harbor Freight. Each type of cloth has it's place. Woven is better for layering and intersecting as the cris-crossing fibers give strength like reinforced concrete. However, it tends to straighten when you do sharp bends and corners. The mat is good for those areas, as there is random lay of fibers. Still, sharp corners will be difficult. Be sure to wear good solvent resistant gloves like nitrile and don't get anything on your skin or in your eyes. If I sound preachy it's because you didn't say how much experience you have with fiber glassing. If you are well experienced, excuse me. If not, you are contemplating a huge difficult complicated messy job.

jimh
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby jimh » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:42 pm

If you actually repair this, you won't have a Boston Whaler boat.

fina
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby fina » Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:24 pm

disappointed in your response Jim. You are usually very logical.

Please give me the point by point breakdown as to why this will no longer be a Boston Whaler boat if it is repaired.

Oldslowandugly
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby Oldslowandugly » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:54 pm

It's doable, and can be disguised to look just fine. Probably better than some decrepit looking workboat Whalers I've seen. Structurally, well that depends on your skills and pocketbook. So have you ever attempted anything like this before?

cc378
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby cc378 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:55 pm

It won't be a whaler because it will no longer be unibond construction. The repair is significant enough that you will have lost the structural integrity that resulted from the original construction method. If you are repairing to keep and use then go for it. Although I would not bother to repair it and I spent 12 years working boatyards in my teens and twenties.. If you are repairing it to sell, my POV is you would need to declare to any future buyer the extent of the original damage.. and my guess is you will not get much for the hull.

jimh
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby jimh » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:38 pm

fina wrote:Please [tell] me...why this will no longer be a Boston Whaler boat if it is repaired.


Think of the children's rhyme about Humpty-Dumpty.

Please post the Hull Identification Number and Stencil number.

Sell it to a motel as a lawn decoration.

porthole
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby porthole » Sun May 01, 2016 9:14 am

When we (local TowBoatUS) would get a salvage job or recover a boat like this there were several options. Since it is usually entitled disposal for the customer, we would:

--cut the nose off, make it flat and a working push boat for various small jobs;

--run over it with the dozer to fit it in a dumpster

--since the recycle yard now disposes, we just flat bed to the yard and pay by the pound for disposal.

You could cut off the forward one-third and drive around Manhattan in a BW commercial remake.
Thanks,
Duane
1999 Outrage 21
1999 Yamaha SW Series II 200

Oldslowandugly
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby Oldslowandugly » Sun May 01, 2016 11:20 am

I'm thinking he got this hull for free. If he paid more than a dollar for legal transfer reasons, then it's a loser deal. That said, even a free Whaler with that kind of damage is a real challenge. Properly executed, he will have a great boat for his own use. Aside from labor, It won't be free, as materials are not cheap. If he has never worked with fiberglass, then I would advise against a job like this as a learning experience. But if he is an experienced pro with lots of time on his hands, I say, why not? But, still waiting for his resume.

fina
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby fina » Sun May 01, 2016 12:14 pm

consulted a few boat builders in addition to the great advice here, and was told that structural integrity will be superior to factory when complete using epoxy and mat layers and then inserting foam.

I wish I got this boat which came complete with 70Hp w/trim, trailer, original console, original RPS, original rails for a dollar!

Have received 5 emails so far from continuous wave users to purchase boat "as is"

Binkster
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby Binkster » Sun May 01, 2016 1:08 pm

The comment that a lot of boat builders have given you, that the repaired boat will be structurally superior to the original hull is laughable. If you have a good title to this boat, which is doubtful, then the title itself is more valuable than the hull, so there may be certain people interested in the hull with a good title. I wouldn't sell the title of an unrepairable Whaler, you could become an accomplice. If Boston Whaler was a small operation, and the hull was still in production,, they could lay up a portion of the hull where the damage occurred, and if you had a lot of fiberglass experience, you might repair this hull, but after reading your previous threads and the questions you ask about repair work, I don't see you fixing this boat.
Actually you have received a lot of good advice here, you are just in denial.

fina
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby fina » Sun May 01, 2016 3:46 pm

Sorry BInkster, the title is not for sale.

jimh
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby jimh » Mon May 02, 2016 8:48 am

I hope that the price you paid for the damaged boat reflected mostly the value of the other non-damaged components. The hull in its present condition does not have a high value, at least not to me. I assess the damage with what I think would be Boston Whaler's perspective if they were presented with this hull and asked to repair it. I doubt that Boston Whaler would repair the hull and put their name back on it as a Boston Whaler boat.

Why not call Boston Whaler, show them the pictures, and see what they have to say about a repair?

Here is a story about the Boston Whaler hulls that are cut in half. Sometimes you see these hulls at a dealer for display. I heard that they don't sent a dealer the two matching pieces; they send the bow of one hull and the stern of another. My guess is they do that so the two sections can never be rejoined in a repair and then sold as a boat. A boat repaired like that would no longer be a true Unibond hull Boston Whaler boat.

Jefecinco
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby Jefecinco » Mon May 02, 2016 9:53 am

Was the boat totaled by an insurance company? If so, the title should indicate that it is a total loss title and the boat was sold as salvage. That blemish on the title should remain on the title forever thus rendering the boat unsaleable at anything close to market value for non-salvage hulls.

It's possible the boat could be fraudulently retitled as a home built boat in the future. My best advice is to strip the hull of any useful items and take the remains to a recycler or a landfill. If you want to repair the boat as a learning exercise for your own use I see no harm in that.

As to your question on how to repair the hull I have nothing to offer as I feel it is not safely repairable to original condition. Perhaps the local boat builders you consulted can provide the advice you seek.
Butch

fina
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby fina » Mon May 02, 2016 11:57 am

yes, about 50% of posters have contributed relevant and constructive advice on repair which is appreciated.

A few seem to be obsessed with the registration/title for other uses.

flippa
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby flippa » Fri May 06, 2016 12:28 pm

That boat is severely damaged. A complete loss in my novice opinion. I doubt it's worth the time and expense to fix if even possible.

I would strip it, sell any usable parts and trash the hull.

Good luck repairing that!

Binkster
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Re: 17' Montauk Tree Damaged

Postby Binkster » Mon May 09, 2016 1:59 pm

your comment; (consulted a few boat builders in addition to the great advice here, and was told that structural integrity will be superior to factory when complete using epoxy and mat layers and then inserting foam.)
+
Why not just tow the boat over to one or two of these boatbuilders and get a serious estimate on what they would charge you to rebuild this boat to superior than factory condition.

Apparently, in your estimation, 50% of the folks on this forum, are uniformed, and have no idea on how to repair Boston Whalers. That number is do doubt higher as most of the readers didn't respond because they are clueless as well.

Good luck, let us know what the pros said when the gave you the estimate.

rich