1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Optimizing the performance of Boston Whaler boats
russellbailey
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1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Postby russellbailey » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:07 am

I am trying to figure out details about Evinrude G2 repower options for my boat, and am considering the range from the G2 150 up to the G2 200 HO. I am also interested in the iDock control option that is available. I appreciate your help with my questions.

My 1984 Outrage 25 has twin 2006 Optimax 150s currently that run fine, but I am planning to repower this winter with new twin engines - I like twins and will stay with them. After I added a Hermco bracket to my regular transom boat (similar to a Whalerdrive), I can tell that it takes more power to plane than it used to. The boat also runs faster once on plane (2-4 mph faster than when it was a regular transom) but where it used to pop onto plane with a single engine dragging the second motor, now it works hard to plane on a single engine.

As good as the Optimax have been, they are louder than other engines and I'm not using them again. I am seriously considering the new Mercury 150 Fourstroke, but it won't have any more power than my current engines, and I appreciate the ability to run well on a single engine as I was able to do when the boat had no bracket, and not just get by as it does with the bracket. I don't believe I would get any extra power to plane likely available in Suzuki's options either (up to 200 hp models at least), and so that leaves me with Mercury and Evinrude. The Mercury 150 Fourstroke would be easy - I could literally unhook all my controls, connect to the new engine, and be done, at minimal extra weight. But the Evinrude G2 has several appealing aspects to me.
-Similar or better low end torque as the Optimax
-Integrated controls keep my bracket swim platform very clean and usable
-Options to get substantially more power for planing
-Electronic controls
-iDock which my wife would really appreciate when driving herself

It is possible that the G2s may be too heavy or have another reason to not use, but that is what I want to nail down.

1. What are the different options and weights within the G2 models? I've read mention of getting them with various steering option at least, and it seems like there may be different weights with different steering options. Looking in the range of engines I'm considering, I see
200 HO - 537 lbs
200 - from 528-531
175 - from 530-541
150 - from 496-512
I presume that the weights all correspond to the shortest shaft options, but figure 10 lbs or so for a longer shaft. But what do the other weight values correspond to? It is interesting that the G2 HO looks nearly comparable to the G2 175 and G2 200 in published weight.

2. How much space does the iDock motor control module require, and is it a waterproof module? I have limited rear space on my boat - really only the quarter/corner boxes, as when I added the bracket I did not build cabinets on the center portion like came standard on Whalerdrive boats. So, I do have some hidden space at the rear where I could install the control modules, but it is not extensive, and it can get wet at times.

3. Other than cost, it seems like the preferred motor for this boat would be a G2 200 HO, which should be a strong 200 hp motor since it is built on the larger block and I presume would have noticeably more torque than the smaller block 150/175/200 models. But is there a big difference in torque between the big block and small block? I am really seeking more low end torque in considering more powerful motors - the Optimax 150s I have currently give me ample top end speed (high 40s), and even on a single Optimax 150 I can run about 35 mph with 4 people on the boat, but the boat works hard to get up on plane since I added the bracket.

4. For all of these, I am looking at adding some weight to the rear of the boat. My Optimax weighs around 440 lbs. There is some overlap in the steering weight with the G2s, but my current steering cylinder and tie bar are probably only 10-15 lbs, which is insignificant. However, I have ample weight capacity with the big flotation tank on the bracket - having an adult stand on the swim platform makes an insignificant difference in how the boat sits - having 2-3 adults back there is very noticeable, but a single adult is not, so I've got some room to play with on weight, though I'm not certain just how much.

5. All G2 models appears to be on a built in setback bracket, which pushes the motor back about 4" or so from how a regular motor would sit.

6. Does the G2 use a traditional motor mounting bracket? I have a Turboswing water sports tow bar that mounts to the motor bracket bolts, and I'd want to use that again also.
Last edited by russellbailey on Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jimh
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Re: 1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Postby jimh » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:17 am

The smaller E-TEC G2 engine is a bit unique because it has three options for steering:

--the regular sort of external hydraulic steering that you'd use with every other outboard; this is the lightest weight option and is called REMOTE steering and the mounting bracket (without integral steering) is called the TRACK-PLUS bracket;

--the integrated hydraulic steering built into the engine mount and bracket system; but no power boost; this weighs more and is called INTEGRATED steering

--the integrated hydraulic steering with an internal electric boost pump; this weights the most and is called DYNAMIC POWER STEERING or DPS.

For the list of weights for the three versions of steering, see my post at

http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=889&p=6781#p6774

jimh
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Re: 1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Postby jimh » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:23 am

All the E-TEC G2 engines come standard with electronic shift and throttle (EST) controls, but there are two versions of controls available:

--the ICON II EST or BASIC controls, which can only be used for SINGLE engine installations, and

--the ICON II PREMIUM EST controls, which can be used for both single-engine and multi-engine installations

Of course, the premium controls cost more, but they have more features. For more details about ICON II EST and ICON II PREMIUM EST controls, see my article at

http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2057#p12008

russellbailey
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Re: 1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Postby russellbailey » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:26 am

Thank you jimh - very helpful. I knew you would be on top of the G2 differences.

jimh
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Re: 1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Postby jimh » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:28 am

Re the size of the iDock electronics: I have not seen the system in person. The only illustration I have seen shows two rather small black-box devices in the wiring. Refer to my earlier article about iDock for more information. See

http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2403

jimh
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Re: 1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Postby jimh » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:32 am

It may be obvious but I will mention: if you want iDock joystick steering you have to get the engines with the Dynamic Power Steering (DPS) option, and, you must have the ICON II PREMIUM EST controls.

jimh
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Re: 1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Postby jimh » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:43 am

Regarding the power or torque curve for the E-TEC G2 66-degree block engines, a slide was shown at the dealer reveal that plots crankshaft torque as a function of engine RPM for the E-TEC and several competitor engines. I reproduce the slide below:

torqueCurveETEC150.jpg
Evinrude Presentation of E-TEC G2 V6 66-degree block engine torque curve
torqueCurveETEC150.jpg (23.8 KiB) Viewed 295 times


The graph (above) shows that the E-TEC G2 66-degree block engine will produce substantially more torque than the Mercury 150 FOURSTROKE (NOT VERADO) engine.

jimh
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Re: 1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Postby jimh » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:45 am

Re the difference in torque between the E-TEC G2 74-degree and 66-degree engines: I am sure the larger displacement of the 74-degree engines will deliver a wider power band. The weight difference in the DPS models is not particularly large. I think it's only about 20-lbs. I'd have to research it more to get the exact figure.

jimh
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Re: 1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Postby jimh » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:48 pm

Another option for twin engines you might consider: if you decide that iDock won't be in your future, you may be able to save some weight in a twin engine installation by buying only one engine with DPS and the other engine, perhaps the counter-rotation model, in the TRACK-PLUS bracket configuration. You would then use a conventional tie-bar, and the DPS engine would steer both. I think this is permitted at 150-HP level, inasmuch as the steering in one engine is rated for 300-HP models. But confirm with the dealer if that is an option. Rigging with one DPS and one TRACK-PLUS would reduce cost, reduce weight, and still give you very neat and tidy rigging and power steering.

UPDATE: I looked more closely at this situation, and there are problems with my plan. First of all, at the 150-HP model, all the engines are REMOTE steering (no integral steering), so you cannot get DPS on one engine. To get DPS you have to move up to the model called 150 H.O.. But now there is another problem: there is no model in the 150 H.O. series with TRACK-PLUS and COUNTER ROTATION. The only COUNTER-ROTATION model is an INTEGRATED steering model. So the best you could do is to have one engine with DPS and one with integrated steering. I presume the hydraulic rigging would be the usual method--use T-connectors join the two hydraulically steering engines to a common hydraulic system.

UPDATE 2: it turns out the TRACK PLUS mounts and the INTEGRAL STEERING/DPS mounts are quite different and cannot be mixed together for twin applications. This probably explains why Evinrude does not make the particular models I was suggesting, as the difference in the two mounts--different set-back distances-- would not permit them to be used in twin engine applications.

russellbailey
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Re: 1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Postby russellbailey » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:04 pm

After more reflection and study, I decided to order Fourstroke Mercury 150s. Reasons for that choice.

1. Power from the Fourstroke 150 should be roughly comparable to Opti 150 based on published reports, which is adequate
2. Weight of Fourstroke 150 is only slightly heavier than Optimax 150.
3. Can re-use all existing rigging except for engine harness/key switch - also have to add water separating filter since Optimax has on engine and Fourstroke does not
4. Cost for all parts with extra 2 years of Mercury warranty comes out to just under $23k with freight, not counting whatever my current engines sell for. I'll rig myself since it will be simple in using nearly all of the current rigging.

I was really tempted by the G2, but decided against it for the following.
1. Much heavier - about 100 lbs heavier per engine - significant with twins on my hull.
2. Much more expensive - engine plus rigging cost would have been at least $10k higher - used demo engines would have cost more than the new pair of Fourstroke 150s
3. Low benefit from iDock on a center console - reviewing it, the main benefit is on pontoons or catamarans where the engines are widely set, with much less benefit on a center console.

I would have liked to go with the G2 due to its greater torque - there is no question that it has more torque than the Fourstroke 150. It is possible I may end up dropping a little pitch from my current Rev4 17p propellers, but due to the lower gear ratio in the Fourstroke (1.92) vs the Opti (1.87) it is possible the same propeller will work. But if I need to drop down a little pitch and give up a little top end, I'm fine with that.

I think the G2 is a really interesting and desirable product, but it was not the right choice for me since I wanted to stay with twins.

jimh
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Re: 1984 Outrage 25 with bracket - twin engine Evinrude G2 options

Postby jimh » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

You have made a cogent observation regarding how dynamic thrust from twin engines in docking maneuvers will be more effective in twin-hull boat where the distance between engines is much greater than on monohull boats where the engines are usually only separated by about 26 to 28-inches.