1999 DAUNTLESS 14; General Questions about Re-power

Optimizing the performance of Boston Whaler boats
jacksonvilledrew
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1999 DAUNTLESS 14; General Questions about Re-power

Postby jacksonvilledrew » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:36 pm

[Moderator's note: here is the shorter version of this thread:

Q: is a Yahama F70 a good engine for re-powering a 1999 DAUNTLESS 14?

A: Yes

And what follows is the longer version--jimh]



I bought a 1999 DAUNTLESS 14 powered by a 1999 Mercury 75-HP--my first Boston Whaler boat. After I get the DAUNTLESS 14 in better shape, I will be considering a re-power.


The 1999 Mercury 75-HP outboard is loud and smokey--when it works. It is unreliable and has had seemingly endless stream of little problems. I believe it sat for a while before I purchased it.

Q1: what engine is appropriate for a re-power of a 1999 DAUNTLESS 14?

Q2: should I buy a new engine?

Q3: should I have the dealer install the new engine?

Q4: should I buy a used engine?

[Deleted remarks about problems in the hull that need repair. To get advice on repair use the REPAIR and MODIFICATIONS forum.--jimh]

jimh
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Re: 1999 DAUNTLESS 14 General Questions about Re-power

Postby jimh » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:21 pm

jacksonvilledrew wrote:Q1: what engine is appropriate for a re-power of a 1999 DAUNTLESS 14?
The 1999 DAUNTLESS 14 is rated for a maximum power of 75-HP. A minimum of 30-HP is recommended. Any engine in that range would be appropriate, although most Boston Whaler owners tend to favor using engine power that is in the upper quartile of the minimum-maximum range. On that basis an engine of 60 to 75-HP would be good.

Engine weight is also a concern. Avoid very heavy engines, such as early four-stroke-power-cycle outboard engines, which tended to be much heavier than two-stroke-power-cycle engines of c.1999.

There are many modern 75-HP outboard engines that will be appropriate for re-powering the DAUNTLESS 14.

Another consideration when planning to re-power an outboard-engine-powered boat is re-use of existing engine remote throttle and shift controls. When choosing a new engine, consider if the present engine remote controls can be re-used. However, if the controls are not in good condition, if the cables connecting them to the engine are not in perfect condition, consider replacing all of them, no matter what brand of engine is chosen.

When choosing an engine brand, give very careful consideration to the selling dealer. Work with a dealer that seems compatible, that you trust, that has an excellent service department, and that has extensive experience in selling that particular engine brand as a re-power. Many dealers only sell new engines with new boats, and have little to no experience with re-powering older boats. Avoid those dealers.

jacksonvilledrew wrote:Q2: should I buy a new engine?
The cost of a modern 75-HP engine will be quite likely a very significant investment in the boat, perhaps more than you have paid for the boat, engine, and trailer. You should consider carefully the investment in a new engine. I would caution that putting a new engine on an older boat usually results in a new total value for the boat and engine that will be substantially less than your costs. I would not buy a new engine unless you decide you love the boat, plan to keep the boat for at least ten years, and don't worry about the financial costs.

jacksonvilledrew wrote:Q3: should I have the dealer install the new engine?
Most new engine purchases will require the engine installation to be certified by a dealer as being properly done in order for the engine manufacturer's warranty to become effective. If you plan to buy a new engine, I recommend having it installed by the dealer selling the engine to you. Unless you are particularly expert in installation, rigging, and initialization of modern outboard engines, the installation is probably best left to the dealer and his certified technicians to perform.

jacksonvilledrew wrote:Q4: should I buy a used engine?
A used engine will be generally much less expensive than new. If you find a good used engine there is no particular reason to not buy one. Well-designed, well-built, well-cared-for outboard engines can run for thousands of hours and for decades. The service life is often determined by initial quality and subsequent use and care.

jacksonvilledrew
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Re: 1999 DAUNTLESS 14 General Questions about Re-power

Postby jacksonvilledrew » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:37 pm

Thanks jimh, for the quick feedback.

I really enjoy the boat, I have been using it to fishing the Intracoastal Water Way and St. Johns river in Jacksonville, Florida. The DANTLESS 14 is a great platform and takes the river chop and big ship wakes like a champion.

I am not worried about sunk costs relative to resale value as you mentioned, and the new engines do cost more than I paid for the boat. I plan on keeping it for a long time.

My fear with a "used re-power" is I may get stuck with another batch of engine problems.

I am leaning towards a new re-power with warranty so I can have mostly worry free turn key use. I want anyone's feedback who has experience with re-power, both positive or negative outcomes, and what they re-powered with. The DAUNTLESS 14 is weight sensitive regarding transom freeboard.

Thanks.

biggiefl
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Re: 1999 DAUNTLESS 14 General Questions about Re-power

Postby biggiefl » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:43 pm

Most are going to recommend the Honda 60, Yamaha 70 and E-TEC 75 for power-to-weight ratios.

Can you rig the engine? That is a big question.

I have done many re-powers and the four-stroke-power-cycle engines are cake--they are plug and play. The problem is finding a dealer who will sell you a larger engine in the crate. Also, certain manufacturer's need to have a warranty card signed off by a qualified technician.

Suzuki will normally sell engines and dealer will sign warranty card as date of sale, not installation. Research is the game-o.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

jimh
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Re: 1999 DAUNTLESS 14 General Questions about Re-power

Postby jimh » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:38 pm

For buying a loose engine and re-powering a boat, finding the right dealer is a key element. You need a dealer that knows how to actually install and rig the engine on a 20-year-old boat, knows what problems in the boat to fix before running the engine. Many dealers just work with boats rigged at the factory; they don't install many engines. You need a dealer that has sold and installed and rigged a few hundred loose engines on all kinds of boats.

A bad fuel system on a 20-year-old boat will kill a new engine. That's why most manufacturers want their dealers to install the engine and check the boat fuel system, otherwise there won't be warranty coverage.

I did re-power my classic Boston Whaler boat, but it was not a DAUNTLESS 14. The principal factor in determining which engine I bought was the dealer. I found a dealer who was really an expert with re-powering older boats, was an expert on the engine, had been selling that engine brand at that location for 90-years, and had technicians who were factory trained and certified to the highest ratings on the engine.

jacksonvilledrew
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Re: 1999 DAUNTLESS 14 General Questions about Re-power

Postby jacksonvilledrew » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:50 pm

Thanks I would not plan on rigging myself, I have a friend who could do a good job, but would much rather pay more for the dealer and get the warranty. Aside from hp and brand, is there any preference on shaft length or is the standard ok?

jimh
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Re: 1999 DAUNTLESS 14 General Questions about Re-power

Postby jimh » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:20 pm

jacksonvilledrew wrote:is there any preference on shaft length...?

Huh? Of course there is a preference on the outboard engine shaft length: use the correct one.

jacksonvilledrew wrote:...is the standard ok?

I don’t know which length you think is the “standard” outboard engine shaft length. Engine are available from 15-inch to 30-inch shaft length in five-inch increments to fit the transom of the boat they will be mounted on, and transom height varies with single or twin engines on V-hull boats.

jacksonvilledrew
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Re: 1999 DAUNTLESS 14 General Questions about Re-power

Postby jacksonvilledrew » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:19 am

I thought 20-inches was more less standard for those [horsepower] ratings.

Looking at 70hp [Y]amaha 4 stroke at the moment thanks for the suggestions.

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Re: 1999 DAUNTLESS 14 General Questions about Re-power

Postby jimh » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:45 am

jacksonvilledrew wrote:I thought 20-inches was more less standard for those [horsepower] ratings.

Outboard engine shaft lengths are described in two ways: numerically in inches or by adjectives that describe a length according to the relationship
    15 = short
    20 = long
    25 = extra-long
    30 = extra-extra-long
To refer to one of those shaft length as being "the standard" is imprecise and ambiguous. All of the above outboard engine shaft lengths are STANDARD shaft lengths. They all conform to the industry standard that outboard engines will use shaft lengths in five-inch increments, beginning with 15-inch-shaft length and going to 30-inch-shaft lengths

Generally in order for something to possess the quality of being "standard" (adjective) there has to be a standard (noun)--a published document from some organization that establishes a certain order or parameter or dimension or method that is in general agreement by the principal participants in a field to be the established or recognized practice. Thus in outboard engine shaft lengths there is a standard practice as described above. I have not research the history of this practice and what organization has established it, but most likely this standard came from the American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) or the International Council of Marine Industry Associations (ICOMIA) or the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA).

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Re: 1999 DAUNTLESS 14 General Questions about Re-power

Postby jimh » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:54 am

jacksonvilledrew wrote:Looking at [Yamaha F70] ...


The Yamaha F70 is only available in a 20-inch-shaft model. Compare at

https://yamahaoutboards.com/en-us/home/outboards/115-50-hp/70-50#specs-compare

If that's the engine you want, looks like you are going to get a 20-inch-shaft engine. To know if that is the correct shaft length for your boat, you have to review the Boston Whaler specifications for your boat. The real question at hand is:

    Q: What is the specified shaft length for an outboard engine for a 1999 DAUNTLESS 14?

    A: 20-inches, according to the 1999 Boston Whaler catalogue specifications.

In regard to maximum engine weight, there were no published limits for engine weight. At that time Boston Whaler did not sell their boats pre-rigged with engines. The selling dealer or the customer installed the engines. Since the maximum power was specified to be 75-HP, a reasonable inference can be made: the maximum engine weight is about the weight of a c.1999 70-HP or 75-HP outboard engine.

One method to know the weight of older outboard engines is to review a lengthy discussion about that topic, now archived at


A typical 70-HP engine in c.1999 would be the OMC three-cylinder 70-HP engine. That engine weight was about 250-lbs

The F70 weighs 252-lbs. This suggests that a Yamaha F70 engine will have about the same weight as a c.1999 70-HP engine.

A Mercury 75-HP c.1999 is noted as weighing 299-lbs.

Since 299-lbs (the weight of the engine on the boat now) is greater than the F70's weight of 252-lbs, there should not be any concern about the weight of the Yamaha F70 engine as a re-power for a c.1999 DAUNTLESS 14 boat.