Outrage 22 Whaler Drive Re-Power

Optimizing the performance of Boston Whaler boats
Tbone
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Outrage 22 Whaler Drive Re-Power

Postby Tbone » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:12 pm

To re-power our 1991 Outrage 22 [Whaler Drive] we have the option to purchase a friend's 2007 Yamaha F250 (four-stroke-power-cycle engine) with 25-inch shaft. The boat has a Whaler [Drive] and currently has a 1993 Johnson 175-HP. We are concerned that the weight of the [Yamaha F250] may be [excessive]. Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[This discussion of outboard engine performance will be moving to PERFORMANCE for further dicussion.--jimh]

jimh
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Re: Outrage 22 Re-Power

Postby jimh » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:42 pm

Boston Whaler boats with Whaler Drive--I think that is what you meant to say when you described your boat with other terms--can handle twin engines from the classic two-stroke-power-cycle engine era when engine weights were probably 450-lbs (each engine or 900-lbs total engine weight). So a Yamaha F250 can't be more than 900-lbs. How much does it weigh? You need to give us the weight that you think the engine will be so we can really comment on if it will have too much weight.

You can approximate the effect of the added weight on the static waterline by just having someone who weighs the same as the difference in weight between the old engine and the F250 step out on the Whaler Drive and lean over the engine. That should approximate the weight distribution of the new engine. Then check the water line at the transom of the Whaler Drive. The splash well drains should be about at the water line.

If your OUTRAGE 22 has a Whaler Drive, it will not have a problem with any single engine, no matter what the weight; you could put a VERADO on there and still be good. I think you will find the increase to 250-HP will give you better performance. A single 175-HP engine on that set-up was probably a bit below optimum power.

Tbone
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Re: Outrage 22 Re-Power

Postby Tbone » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:48 am

Thank you for the info. It sounds like the engine will not be too heavy, it is also coming off a commercial 22 Outrage without a bracket so I figured it would be okay.

Another question: will the size of the cowling keep the engine from getting trimmed all the way up? As in, would it bump into the back of the transom? I doubt it, but wondering if you would happen to know.

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Re: Outrage 22 Re-Power

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:00 pm

Check the Yamaha literature on their engine to see if they provide a detailed outline drawing of the engine with all dimensions and the range of the tilt motion. (Evinrude has these diagrams in their literature, for example.) With a drawing like that, you can estimate the range of the tilt.

On my 22-foot Boston Whaler boat with Whaler Drive, I can tilt-up the single modern engine so the gear case is clear of the water. I cannot tilt-up to the full range of the tilt possible, but far enough to do what I need. On my modern engine (an Evinrude E-TEC) the power tilt system has a limit switch that can be adjusted to stop the tilt-up to any point. I have set the limit so the engine does not bang the cowling into the hull transom and rear deck. Since Yamaha is historically very good at copying features from Evinrude, I would expect that the Yamaha F250 has something similar in its power tilt circuit. Also, that tilt limit switch has been on Evinrude engines for a long time; you probably have one on the 175-HP engine on the boat now.

And you will want to be really careful not to bang the cowling into the aft deck or transom, because on these modern engines the price of a new cowling will probably give you some serious financial pain.

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John_Madison CT
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Re: Outrage 22 Re-Power

Postby John_Madison CT » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:33 am

No problem with the weight. My buddy has that exact boat, a Yamaha F250 on Whaler 22 with Whaler Drive. I have a 25' Outrage Cuddy with Whaler Drive and considering going to a single 300-HP four-stroke-power-cycle engine from twin Johnson 150-HP two-stroke-power-cycle engines .

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andygere
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Re: Outrage 22 Re-Power

Postby andygere » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:59 pm

The powerheads on modern 4-stroke V6 outboards are huge compared to the 2-stroke motors these boats were built for. I expect there would be some tilt interference with the motor you are proposing, but the only way to know for sure is to find another Whaler Drive 22 rigged with that motor.

As an aside, the powerhead/cowl size of the E-TEC that jimh has on his Revenge 22WD is much closer in proportion to the 2 stroke outboards of the late 80's and early 90's. I researched this extensively when re-powering my notched transom Outrage 22 almost 10 years ago. I have an aftermarket wrap-around rail that I would have had to remove to fully tilt many of the modern 4-strokes. I keep my boat in the water and being able to fully tilt the lower unit clear of the water surface was important to me. Note that on my 200 hp E-TEC, I had a tilt limit programmed in by the dealer so it would not tilt up so high as to damage the cowl. I imaging jimh's motor could be similarly programmed, and would expect other modern motors may have that capability as well.
1989 Outrage 22 Cuddy

jimh
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Re: Outrage 22 Re-Power

Postby jimh » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:11 am

The Evinrude tilt limit is implemented with a simple normally-closed switch in the UP circuit. The switch is mechanically operated by the engine mounting frame itself, and the limit is "programmed" by mechanical movement of the switch and its actuator. It is not particularly high-tech but it works perfectly.

Andy--thanks for the comments on the ability to get the gear case out of the water. I can see how that would be important for boats kept in the water when not in use. We mostly trailer-sail our boat, and for the week or ten days it stays in the water on our trips, the gear case is in pristine fresh water so I just about never tilt-up the engine when at anchor or at the dock. But it does have enough range to get the gear case clear of the water.

Newportme
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Outrage 22 Re-Power

Postby Newportme » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:34 am

I realize this is an old thread. I am curious [to hear news about the boat re-power that was being discussed several months ago].

I have a 1989 [OUTRAGE 22 Whaler Drive] with its original Evinrude 225-HP outboard engine. I am sure a re-power is not too far in the future for me. --Bruce

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Re: Outrage 22 Whaler Drive Re-Power

Postby jimh » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:45 am

Bruce--here is an update for you:

If I were in the market for a new engine for an OUTRAGE 22 Whaler Drive boat, I would purchase an E-TEC G2 250-HP engine. I would get the E-TEC G2 for the following reasons:

--best fuel economy
--least exhaust gas emission
--best torque over widest engine speed range
--integrated electronic shift and throttle with ICON II EST
--integrated hydraulic steering
--integrated power steering with user-controlled boost setting, Dynamic Power Steering or DPS
--best warranty--eight-year coverage
--best electronic instrumentation
--cleanest rigging with innovative design
--built-in set-back bracket
--best color selection
--best local dealer
--best trained technician
--best support from factory
--made in USA

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Phil T
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Re: Outrage 22 Whaler Drive Re-Power

Postby Phil T » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:03 am

Bruce -

All major manufacturer's have well refined, reliable, engines in the 200-250hp range.

With the shift from analog to digital, you will have to replace all the gauges, harnesses, binnacle and steering. I don't have to tell you that shopping around for detailed quotes from:

Portland Yacht (Evinrude, Honda, Mercury)
Port Harbor Marine (Yamaha, Mercury)
Richardson's

BTW - The spring I bought a new trailer for my new to me 1992 Outrage 17 and when we were shifting over, immediately had fond recollection of your project. That was fun.
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115