1987 GUARDIAN 18 Re-power

[Thundergod]

I recently purchased a 1987 GUARDIAN 18. I am told that this model became the OUTRAGE 19. Any clarification on that point would be great.

I [want to] purchase [new] power for the [1987 GUARDIAN 18] boat. I have never owned an outboard before--only inboard engine boats. I have been told a very wide range of opinions on what to power the boat with, from 90 to 200-HP.

[Give me] suggestions for power. I want to avoid the complications of twins. I operate a marine towing business on the lower Colorado River in Parker Arizona, so power is important--speed not so much. Fuel consumption is my enemy. I would like to be able to take the boat offshore fishing a couple times of year.

[Thundergod]

A few more pictures

[mkelly]

I own a 1994 Outrage 19 II. Tthis looks very much the hull, or perhaps a version of, but probably close enough. I'm guessing by looking over your photos the Coast Guard manufacturer plate is gone or illegible. You would start there to find the rated horsepower, which is basically the maximum horsepower some entity came up with, typically a formula of length x width (beam) x 2 minus 90. If your specs are as mine it reads 18.5 x 7.67 x 2 - 90 or 193.8 horsepower. On the plate on my boat, Boston Whaler chose to rate my hull at 150 horsepower. So that doesn't directly answer your question or offer my opinion but gives you a platform for how our types of boats are rated and ultimately most are powered. Insurance plays into the "plate" horsepower rating so we'll pay attention to that as well.

Prior to my 1994 2.6 liter 150-HP Mercury blowing up a couple years ago, it ran just fine at about 45-MPH wide open and cruised nicely between 3,600 and 4,000-RPM with good speed and plenty of power. I'm interested in power and speed and don't run enough each year to worry much about fuel consumption--typically 80 hours a year max--which is opposite of what you mention. I would contact Whaler. We'll try to get you the correct link. If you have hull number, see if they have it on record and can offer you the horsepower rating. At least that's a starting place for you, but if fuel is of great concern you can not beat the Yamaha four-stroke-cyle 150 or Evinrude E-TEC 150 and probably a bit better torque. Of consideration in all this is gear ratio and your propeller selection. If my more technically advanced friends are reading this they will sum it up for you which would give you the best slow towing performance, but still with the ability to run offshore for the occasional fishing event. My guess the four stroke Yamaha will give you the best fuel consumption but the E-TEC may have a bit more torque. Frankly probably not enough to make a big difference. In your communication or research with Boston WHaler you may find that Guardian model is rated at 200-HP, or perhaps not rated at all as they are built for regional justice departments. Others can chime in if there's another work horse outboard more built for towing. If not you can't miss with either the Yamaha or Evinrude. As you may hear from others on this site, your locality and support should play into your decision. If you have good local dealership support and shop, go with that one. I'm in Seattle and many options but understand some areas of the country do not.

[JRP]

Your 1987 Guardian 18 was based on the Outrage 18 hull design. The layout of your interior appears to be the same as the circa 1980's Outrage 18, the only difference I see is that some components such as the console are not identical. Around 1990, the Outrage 18 was re-named the Outrage 19 (aka 19 Outrage I), using the same hull and interior (in other words, it was the same boat with a different model name.) In 1992, the interior of the boat was re-designed, and it bacame known as the 19 Outrage II, which weighs about 600 lbs more than the previous versions (per published specifications.)

The circa 1980s Outrage 18, 19 Outrage I, and 19 Outrage II models all shared the same engine horsepower rating, which was 75 HP for minimum and 150 HP for maximum. I would expect your Guardian 18 variant has the same engine HP rating.

The consensus for these models seems to be that an engine with the max horspower rating (150) is preferable. But I have seen plenty of Outrage 18s with 115 HP outboards. Still, for towing you probably want to stay close to the max rating.

I have also seen some Outrage 18/19 models with more than 150 HP. If you decide to go that route, I would suggest that you choose a 175 or 200 HP engine that shares a common platform with a 150 HP version, so that the weight of the engine is roughly the same as the 150 HP version. (Many outboard engine manfacturers offer a 150/175/200 HP engine family using the same block, gear case, etc, so the total engine weights are typically within a few lbs of each other.)

I agree with the earlier recommendation to choose an engine brand with good dealer support in your immediate area of operation.

[Maverick]

Hi Thunder, I have a similar Guardian 18 and recently repowered with a new ETEC 150 HO. Thanks to Jim on this website, I learned of Evinrude's special offers, and was able to make a great deal. I recommend that you read this older article/string on the old CW forum as it will give you some ideas, maybe a chuckle or two. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/008138.html

Regarding my 1987 Guardian, I disassembled my boat nearly completely...floor, gas tank (rotted out badly, I have lots of photos) etc, and spent a lot of time and money on it. I attached a couple photos of it to this post...the water pic is right after new motor was mounted and before electronics. Note that this is my first post on this new forum, so I hope I correctly attached the pics. Thanks, Chuck

[porthole]

I worked for a TowBOATUS for over 20 years. Every outboard re-power we did had Hondas. Under 20-feet hulls had singles, over 20-feet hulls had twins. We started years ago with trade in outboards. 150-200 hour take offs. Honda's warranty was always good even covering commercial, used powerheads when they had the water problem. This was an outfit that did 800-1000 tows a year out of Manasquan Inlet, NJ area.

SInce a lot of time is spent at low speeds, sometimes hours at just idle or slightly above, four-stroke-cycle engines were the way to go. Our boats were worked hard. The success we had with the towboats is the reason I put a Honda on my 15 when I re-powered. Of course it helped that we were allowed to buy palleted outboards and do our own rigging.

SInce you are doing tows, I would look at reliabilty and warranty if buying new.

How big a tow do you expect is a key consideration as well.

[Thundergod]

Is this a normal transom? I understand they are normally 25 inch. Is this a 20?

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[jimh]

Someone hacked up that boat's transom.

[Thundergod]

The boat had only one owner before me the Wisconsin department of natural resources
Do you think that was for a repower? I had read that there was a few that had 20" transoms
I sure hope it's not hacked is scheduled for delivery tomorrow

[porthole]

Looks like one of their specialist had a 25" hull and a 20" outboard was on the rack - and the boss said make it work.
Are those rust stains or just gunk stains?

[Thundergod]

Hydraulic fluid and oil so gunk

[Thundergod]

I have a cmc 5" set back plate I could bolt on. What would the concerns be also if I mounted it up do you guys think it would be wise to undo the specialist work

[Maverick]

Mine has a 25" transom.

[Maverick]

No cutout...mine is straight across. I couldn't attach pics here so I emailed to you.

[porthole]

We have gotten multiple boats over the years through the GSA. All Whaler's, Navy, DNR, ICE, NP's etc. all were rough except one (see below). The Navy boats were usually in the best shape as they were "one owner", and Navy spec'd hulls are very robust
For the most part everything can be fixed, especially if you are not trying for showroom quality.
I would be concerned about the wood in the transom. Especially if you are planning to tow with it. Lot of pressure on the transom when your trying to pull someone off a bar.

Side note:
We won one auction for an "ICE" boat, a USCG 41 UTB. We drove that boat from the Brooklyn Navy Yard to our dock, 60 miles or so. Put about $2,000 into some repairs and put the boat to work for the rest of the season.

[Thundergod]

Thanks for all the input looks like the first stop will be at the glass shop for transom repair possible replacement wish me luck.
I will update once a direction is figured out.

[Thundergod]

[The 1987 GUARDIAN 18] is going to need the transom repaired. The second notch was a poorly done modification to a 20-inch transom that utilized a stainless drop-on cap. Once I get the boat disassembled, [transom repair] will be first on the list for repairs I will post some pictures once it's apart, but this [refit] is going to be a lot of work.

[jimh]

In some instances in which a standard Boston Whaler hull has been adapted into commercial or government service, it has been seen that the transom height has been RAISED five inches (at the factory) to 30-inches as an factory option, but I have never heard of any instance in which Boston Whaler offered a factory option to cut-down the standard transom height to LOWER it five inches for 20-inch single engine fitting.

Power for a Boston Whaler 18-foot OUTRAGE hull is usually in the range of 115-HP to 150-HP, and sometime even more than 150-HP. Given that a commercial hull is generally heavier than a recreational hull due to having been laid up with thicker laminates, I would suspect that 150-HP would be a good power for the hull. You can find some 150-HP engines with 20-inch shafts, but often they are intended for smaller and faster boats. If I had your boat I would repair the transom--just as you are planning--for a 25-inch shaft engine and look for a nice 150-HP engine.

I have driven several Boston Whaler 18-foot OUTRAGE boats. Let me review their powering. The first boat had twin 115-HP engines. This boat was really over-powered. It was actually somewhat difficult to drive due to having so much power. The owner many years later removed the twin 115-HP engines and replaced them with twin 90-HP engines.

Another boat I drove was re-powered with twin 90-HP engines. This boat was really a pleasure to run, and the weight of the twin engines, Evinrude E-TEC 90-HP engines, did not seem to be too heavy, although the hull was clearly being asked to handle a lot of engine weight. To see this set-up visit:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetace ... age81.html

The third boat I drove was powered by a 135-HP engine. It was very fun to drive, and seemed like a very good set up. All of those boats were using two-stroke-cycle engines, which tended to be lighter than four-stroke-cycle engines and have a wider power band.

I have not really made any sort of survey of what is available in 2016 in 150-HP outboard engines, but I would start my survey with the Evinrude E-TEC 150-HP engine, and use it as a comparison to the other brands. The Evinrude E-TEC engines have been extremely popular choices for re-powering a Boston Whaler boat. Suzuki and Yamaha four-stroke-cycle engines have also been popular choices.

My usual advice about engine brand is to first look at your local dealer and assess his operation. I'd give a lot of weighting in a decision to buy a new engine to the local dealer of the brand. If the local dealer is a good guy, has good service, actually sells and installs many of these engines on older boats for re-powering (as opposed to just selling new boats with the engine), then that is a strong endorsement for me for the brand.

Dealer presence varies in different areas of the country. In some places you see one brand having a very dominant presence, and that is usually due to the presence of very strong dealers.

[jimh]

To learn about the history of the Boston Whaler 18-foot hull, read my article about that model in the REFERENCE section. See

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/18Outrage/

To see a nicely re-powered GUARDIAN 18 with E-TEC 150 H.O. power, see

http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28&start=75#p1152

Again, E-TEC engines are very popular for re-powering older Boston Whaler boats that were not designed for the massive size and weight of the four-stroke-cycle outboard engines of today.

[Maverick]

Update: just turned over 20 hours on this new motor. "Performane perfection" it has been...very pleased. Have used about 1 gallon of XD100 oil for the intial 20 hours. Dealer said it would use less after "break in" although technically already broken in at purchase but programmed to use more oil for first so many hours. Quiet, smooth, fast. I like it a lot!

[jimh]

Please remind me what brand and horsepower is "this new motor" and what type of boat is it powering.

[Maverick]

Jim, You posted the link for it just above. 1987 Guardian 18 with dive door. I bought new 2015 ETEC 150 HO for it.