18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Optimizing the performance of Boston Whaler boats
Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:36 pm

There is a chance my 18-year-old Evinrude 150-HP outboard engine has a lower unit problem. I won't know if the problem is major or not for a couple of weeks, but, just in case it is major, I am thinking ahead if I decide I want to repower. The Boston Whaler DAUNTLESS 18 hull is stern heavy and weight sensitive. The only light engines I can find that will work on this hull are the E-TEC 135, E-TEC 150, and Suzuki 140.

Does anyone have any experience with the Dauntless [18] and Suzuki [140-HP outboard engine]?

I have searched but cannot find any [reports from owners with a Boston Whaler DAUNTLESS 18 with a SUZUKI 140-HP outboard engine] on the web. If you do [have experience with a Boston Whaler DAUNTLESS 180 and a SUZUKI 140-HP outboard engine] please let me know how the set-up works for you. Thanks!

jimh
Posts: 11673
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby jimh » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:06 pm

You never mentioned the age of your boat, but since you say the Evinrude engine is 18-years-old, it sounds like it is a 1997-model. A new Evinrude E-TEC 135-HP or E-TEC 150-HP engine should be able to re-use most of the c.1997 engine rigging components on your boat. Re-use of the rigging would allow some savings in a re-power.

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:15 pm

The hull is a 1999 but the motor was made in 1997. Price is also a concern.

Maverick
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am
Location: Padre Island, Texas

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Maverick » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:00 am

Good morning, Masbama,

The Dauntless is a nice looking boat, and new motor shopping is quite an order!

That said, I recently repowered my 1987 Guardian 18 with a new (2015) ETEC 150 HO. I believe my boat has weight similar to the Dauntless at around 2,000 pounds--actually I think my Guardian might be a few hundred pounds heavier at around 2,200--but I could not be happier with this new ETEC purchase. Cost was around $17,000 (motors are expensive), but it sips fuel, is quiet, is competitively lightweight, and runs quite nicely, with top speed around 45-MPH, depending on how many folks are on board.

I spent a lot of time looking and comparing Suzuki, Yamaha, and Mercury, but decided on the E-TEC. Take your time, research, ask questions, lots of friendly folks on this forum have a lot of good experience to offer. There is also a long thread on this forum where you can read more about my purchase history: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/008138.html

Best, Mav

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:35 am

Thanks Mav, great insight. If money were not a concern I would go E-TEC, but I may have a chance to get the Suzuki for thousands less, if it comes to that.

Jefecinco
Posts: 1592
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:35 pm
Location: Gulf Shores, AL

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Jefecinco » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:54 pm

I expect the Suzuki would be a good choice. If you can get a decent deal for a Suzuki with a little more power it may be worth your consideration. I had a 1999 16 Dauntless powered by a 115 HP two stroke Evinrude. I used a four blade propeller so was not propped for speed. I don't remember my speed at WOT but believe it was mid forties. Due to the weight of the Dauntless hulls you may be disappointed in the performance with 140 HP four stroke.
Butch

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:34 am

My mechanic thinks I had needle bearing failure in the lower unit. (It's poking the the unit). Will get an estimate but most likely looking like a new lower unit is needed. If that's the case it will be decision time.

Jefecinco
Posts: 1592
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:35 pm
Location: Gulf Shores, AL

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Jefecinco » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:40 pm

You should look at SEI replacement lower units. A replacement could cost you less than a repair and the SEI units come with a nice warranty.
Butch

JRP
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:35 pm
Location: Chesapeake

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby JRP » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:58 pm

Masbama, any updates?

I agree with the suggestion above to at least explore a replacement lower unit.


Maverick wrote:... I recently repowered my 1987 Guardian 18 with a new (2015) ETEC 150 HO. .... Cost was around $17,000 (motors are expensive)...


Maverick, Ouch! Was your cost of "around $17,000" for the complete installation?

Because Masbama is asking about the Suzuki DF140A, I will mention that I received a quote for installation of that same engine on my 1992 Outrage 19 (same hull as the circa 1980s Outrage 18). This quote was provided to me last summer (summer 2015) by a Suzuki dealer, during a period when Suzuki had a promotion running (I do not recall the details of the promotion -- possibly free rigging or equivalent). The total cost quoted, including rigging, basic instruments, installation, and propeller, was <$10K. Although it is only a 4 cylinder 2.0L engine, this DF140A still seemed to me like a lot of engine for the money.

Hopefully this information will be a useful datapoint to Masbama if he is still considering repowering with a Suzuki DF140A.

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:14 pm

My mechanic is looking at replacement units for the engine and I am going to put one on because these engines have a decent resale value but I am still going to shop for a replacement. The Suzuki would be my first choice except I worry that it won't be powerful enough.
Still looking for first hand reviews on re-powering this hull.

JRP
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:35 pm
Location: Chesapeake

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby JRP » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:09 pm

Masbama wrote:...
Still looking for first hand reviews on re-powering this hull.


Masbama,

Below is a report from an owner of an Outrage 18 who chose the Suzuki DF140A for repowering. Obviously this is not your same hull, but some of the underlying reasons for his decision to choose the DF140A may be applicable to your circumstances:

[The long quoted text was originally in another thread about repowering. See viewtopic.php?t=49#p268 ]

Marko888 wrote:As the original poster asked also for those who considered the E-TEC 135 HO, but chose another, I'll add my thoughts.

I re-powered my 1985 Outrage 18 in the spring of 2014. The new engine replaced the original 1985 Johnson 150 V6. I read and researched obsessively and narrowed my search down to either the Evinrude 135 HO or Suzuki DF140A, and in the end chose the Suzuki.

My reasoning included:
- I never ran the old 150 WOT, most of the time cruising in the range of 30-35 mph, so do not need a 48 mph boat.
- I wanted the lightest available engine, at or close to 150 hp.
- Reliability was priority one, outright performance #2
- A quiet idle was important, as we wanted to troll with the main engine
- I wanted fine idle speed control, such as Suzuki Troll Mode

In my research, I concluded that the E-TEC 135 H.O. (or 150) would be the best pure performance choice, but had a few of disadvantages, namely:
- required an oil tank in the splash well or console, consuming some storage space
- required the expensive ICON Electronic Throttle and Shift (ICON ETS) rigging to get fine idle speed control
- my research indicated a slightly higher chance of having a minor problem or two with this engine
- higher fuel consumption compared to the Suzuki

The Suzuki also had a few disadvantages, but I ultimately found them to be less significant...TO ME.
- less torque output, perhaps requiring I own two propellers, one for light loads, one for heavy loads (this turned out to be true)
- increased maintenance (mainly engine oil changes)
- slower holeshot and lower top speed

The Suzuki advantages included
- lighter overall package by approximately 35-lbs
- extremely quiet and fuel efficient. I can cruise at 30-MPH on 4.25-GPH
- Troll Mode option costs only $150 extra
- exceptional resale value in my region

Now that I've run the Suzuki DF140A for twp seasons, and 176 hours, I can add:
- holeshot is just fine, typically about three seconds to plane
- It is extremely quiet and pleasant at idle
- With my heavy loads prop, top speed is about 40-MPH. My light loads prop tops out at 44mph; these figures observed on a lake, and 1140-feet elevation, measured by GPS.
- We use 50% (or less) fuel compared to the 1985 Johnson V6
- Troll Mode works very well for fishing
- It feels like a Goldilocks engine on an Outrage 18
- I do occasionally miss the "instant boost" of two-stroke power at low RPM
- The Suzuki is VERY responsive at cruise RPM

Marko888

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:30 pm

Thanks JRP!
Very helpful!

Peter
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:52 am

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Peter » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:14 am

Masbama wrote:My mechanic is looking at replacement units for the engine and I am going to put one on because these engines have a decent resale value but I am still going to shop for a replacement. The Suzuki would be my first choice except I worry that it won't be powerful enough.
Still looking for first hand reviews on re-powering this hull.


Here is my experience with the equivalent to a repower from larger to smaller. My first Outrage 18 had a Johnson 150 V6. I always thought that the boat performed really well. I rarely ever ran it at WOT so it was not like I needed 150 HP, but because that motor had the "extra" capacity, it handled loaded conditions ( 4 or 5 people and gear) quite well. It did not get bogged down by the load. Throttle response was excellent. The engine never seemed like it was working too hard.

I sold that Outrage 18 and about 5 years later bought my second Outrage 18. This second one came with a Johnson 140 which was a V4 of about 2L displacement, considerably smaller than the 150 V6 of 2.6L displacement. While the top speed of the 2nd Outrage with the 140 was slightly less than the first Outrage with 150, which did not bother me given I hardly ever ran the boat at WOT, what did bother me was the throttle response of the 140 and its performance in loaded conditions. Cruise RPM was much higher about 4250 vs 3500 RPM for the same boat speed. Having had the first Outrage with the 150, I always felt like there was something missing in my experience with the 2nd Outrage with the 140.

I lived with that for about 1 year and then repowered the 2nd Outrage with another Johnson 150 to get back to what I felt was missing. If the first Outrage had come with 140 on the transom, I probably wouldn't have repowered the 2nd Outrage because I would not have known what I was missing.

I think moving from a 2.6L Johnson 150 V6 to a 2.0L Suzuki 140 4 cylinder will result in a similar step down in the middle range performance although there will be an improvement in fuel economy which I didn't get much of with the Johnson 140.

If I were in your position, assuming the rest of the motor is in good shape, I would just find another gearcase. Plenty of them out there. You can get one for far less cost than a new outboard motor. You can buy a lot of gas with the money you don't spend on a new outboard.

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:07 pm

Peter. Those are all good points. The motor runs good but it is 19 years old and right now its worth it too me to hang a new engine and hopefully be worry free for the next 6+ years. I wish there were more options for this hull but these are the ones I feel make the most sense in weit=ght. I am intrigued by the Suzuki's weight, cost and simplicity (no oil tank). I know I will give up some performance but I never go WOT anyway so top speed is not that big a deal.
I found this video below. I know apples and oranges in the hull but its as close as I could find. Good shot @ the 3;15 mark when the boat is loaded down.

https://youtu.be/OWt8jNEM_sw

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:21 pm

Found this on the old form posted (05-31-2009) by cban:

I have a Suzuki DF 140 on my 1999 Dauntless 180 with a banged up 13x21 prop. I max out at 5800 RPM at WOT at 42 mph with a half a tank of gas and a light load. The hull weight is different than the Guardian at 2000 lbs.

Hoosier
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:04 pm
Location: Indiana and Eastern UP

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Hoosier » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:48 pm

Masbama--I have had a 2004 Suzuki DF115 on my Outrage V20 for the past 12 years, and all I can say is it's an-over-the-top wonderful engine. To be fair, my 1978 Outrage V20 only weights 1500 lbs., empty and dry, but I hit 36 mph last year with that engine with 440 hours on it. Since it's our fishing boat and I can troll all day with it, that causes a real problem, I don't burn enough fuel in a season to not have XX gallons in the tank over the winter. In the FWTW department: That boat has crossed Lake Michigan twice and has cruised the North Channel of Lake Huron three times, a total of over 1000 miles. I had my first system failure last year when one of the (I think) cylinder temperature sensors failed and wouldn't let the engine run over idle, $440 repair. That repair included the full service of the lower unit: oil, impeller, and seals. Not bad after 12 years. If you want to see her she'll be in the Weeks Bay area all of March.
1978 Outrage V20 with 2004 Suzuki DF-115. 1992 23 Walkaround with two 2010 Yamaha F-150s.

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:52 pm

Thanks Hoosier.
May have to check it out!

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:47 pm

Got a quote at the Mobile boat show for an in the box 135hp ETec for $11,300+tax.
Quote for a Suzuki 140hp rigged on my boat with tach,controls,prop, tax,etc:$11,600.
Also spoke to the Suzuki rep who says the 140hp produces 103kW which equates to 138hp.

JRP
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:35 pm
Location: Chesapeake

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby JRP » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:41 pm

Masbama wrote:Got a quote at the Mobile boat show for an in the box 135hp ETec for $11,300+tax.
Quote for a Suzuki 140hp rigged on my boat with tach,controls,prop, tax,etc:$11,600.
Also spoke to the Suzuki rep who says the 140hp produces 103kW which equates to 138hp.


Does the price for the ETEC 135HO include installation, rigging, etc? Or just the engine?

That price on the Suzuki is quite a bit higher than the quote I received last summer (nearly $2K -- although there was an incentive running at that time.) May I suggest that you check with International Marine http://www.internationalmarineservice.com over in Boynton Beach, FL -- I have purchased products from them and been very satisfied with their service, and it's my understanding that they are a top notch Suzuki dealer with very competitive pricing. Even if they are too far away from you, it would at least give you another data point.

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:09 am

JRP:
The Evinrude quote is just the engine in a box. Nothing else. Doesn't even include tax.
The Suzuki quote includes everything from binnacle, tach,wiring harness, prop, installation and tax.
Quote for Suzuki in a box was $9,600.

Marko888
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:43 pm
Location: British Columbia

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Marko888 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:21 am

When I was shopping for my re-power, I could have chosen an E-TEC 135 H.O. for the same price I paid for the Suzuki DF140A. Perhaps shop a few more dealers on the E-TEC.

My boat is only a few MPH slower than it was with the previous 1985 Johnson 150.

I would choose your new engine based upon how you use the Dauntless 18. If you pull water skiers or toys frequently, get the E-TEC. If it's a fishing boat or social runabout, I suspect the DF140A will be fine. Just realize the boat's feel will be a bit mellower overall than it is with the current engine.
Mark
1984 Outrage Cuddy 22

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:47 am

Did an ops run on Mobiles Dog River with my rebuilt lower unit. Ran just fine. That said I will most likely look at a repower down the line. Have to mention that I saw a 20' Proline Cuddy Cabin with a Johnson (Suzuki) 140 4 stroke leaving the no wake zone and going on plane. Did just fine.

Marko888
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:43 pm
Location: British Columbia

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Marko888 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:07 am

Two late comments to add to counter one of the posts above.

- At midrange rpm, the DF140A as MORE responsive than my previous carbureted 2.6L V6. For example, accelerating from 25 mph to 35 mph happens very quickly.
- The DF140A has less low rpm torque, so can be described as less responsive at low rpm.
Mark
1984 Outrage Cuddy 22

Jefecinco
Posts: 1592
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:35 pm
Location: Gulf Shores, AL

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Jefecinco » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:31 am

Masbama,

Good to hear you're back on the water. Did you buy an exchange rebuilt lower or have yours rebuilt?

Hope to see you out there some day. Where do you launch?
Butch

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:10 am

Butch:
I usually launch at the causeway, Dog River or Dauphin Island. We do need to get together. I would appreciate your input on all things 19' and under Boston Whaler. My mechanic found a refurbished one and so far so good.

PROSS
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:35 pm

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby PROSS » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:42 pm

Hello everyone my name is Paul, and I have a 1997 Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 17. I recently changed the [outboard engine] to a Suzuki DF140A from an Evinrude 150 Ocean Pro. The performance is excellent. I recommend it 100-percent.

Masbama
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:33 pm
Location: Mobile, Al

Re: 18 Dauntless, Suzuki 140-HP

Postby Masbama » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:28 pm

Still have not re powered. Glad you are happy with the Suzuki. Will be interesting to see where BRP goes with the G2. Would assume that the G1 150 hp will be phased out.