2004 190 Nantucket Re-power with Evinrude E-TEC G2

Optimizing the performance of Boston Whaler boats
jimh
Posts: 5445
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby jimh » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:07 pm

I think the propeller you are asking about is the RX4. It has a TBX-hub, which is the Evinrude field-replaceable hub insert type.

The RX4 propeller was developed for the gear case of the G2 E-TEC. It is a modern four-blade with some blade rake.

User avatar
InVision
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:04 am

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby InVision » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:19 pm

The dealer is going to let me try a Viper 14.75" x 19" next week. If that does not work well I will be ordering a RX4 15"x18p.

M

Proud owner of 2004 Boston Whaler 190 Nantucket ! ;)

Boat Photos

Divin'Ivan
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 12:00 pm

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby Divin'Ivan » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:44 am

InVision wrote:What is the WOT in MPH of a 150 HP on a Outrage 190?

I've hit 50 mph in glassy conditions
Current boat - 2013 190 Outrage, Mercury 150 EFI

User avatar
InVision
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:04 am

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby InVision » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:48 am

Divin'Ivan wrote:I've hit 50 mph in glassy conditions
Which Prop?

Proud owner of 2004 Boston Whaler 190 Nantucket ! ;)

Boat Photos

Divin'Ivan
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 12:00 pm

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby Divin'Ivan » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:51 am

InVision wrote:Which Prop?

Thee-blade Mercury Enertia. Not not sure what size. it's the standard one Whaler puts in on the 150 4-Stroke. It has 18P stamped next to serial number.
Current boat - 2013 190 Outrage, Mercury 150 EFI

User avatar
InVision
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:04 am

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby InVision » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:54 am

So here is what I got... 60gals fuel 2 passengers.

viper 14.5"x17P - WOT 44mph @ 6150 RPM - Great torque slightly over redline.

viper 14.5"x19P - WOT 47mph @ 5600 rpm - Less torque

So obvious the viper 18P looks like the one. I am considering the RX4 at 18p also. A little bigger with vents.

Decisions Decisions... Dealer does not carry any RX4 props...

M

Proud owner of 2004 Boston Whaler 190 Nantucket ! ;)

Boat Photos

User avatar
Phil T
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:08 pm
Location: Was Maine, now Kentucky
Contact:

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby Phil T » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:27 pm

M--When discussing props we have to remember that size is NOT universal across manufacturers and not even across models. Each model has a unique blade design. This is what makes prop selection so challenging.

It is clear that the Viper blade design does not help your engine/boat combination. Your target should be 5800 rpm's and 49/50 mph. Your WOT rpms are too high or too low and boat speed is still not high enough.

I would go back to my shared recommendations:

First choice - 14" x 19" Mercury Enertia / Quicksilver Q3
Second Choice is the BPR RX4. Start with 19". Leave vent holes closed.


I would not settle on a prop because it is the one available at the dealer.

The Enertia recommendation was #1 and provided by a whaler prop guru who is widely respected. I recommend you visit a Mercury dealer and ask if you can borrow (leave deposit) 14x19 Enertia prop.
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

jimh
Posts: 5445
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby jimh » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:36 pm

I reviewed the thread so far and I don't see any mention of exactly what model E-TEC G2 has been installed on the boat. I can make an inference from one of the pictures shown above that the engine now on the boat is the Evinrude E-TEC G2 150-HP model, but it should be confirmed by the boat owner. It also appears the E-TEC G2 150-HP has the TRAC+ midsection and is using REMOTE steering with a SeaStar hydraulic helm and actuator.

Re the engine speed and boat speed data reported by Boston Whaler in their performance reports for the 190 NANTUCKET boat:

Note that the engine gear ratio in the Boston Whaler boat test was different than the gear ratio of the E-TEC engine now on the boat. The Boston Whaler engine had a 1.92 gear ratio; an E-TEC 150-HP G2 has a 2.17 gear ratio. This difference in gear ratio makes direct comparison of the propeller performance at various engine speeds not completely valid.

With a higher (numerical) gear ratio, the propeller shaft speed for a particular RPM will decrease compared to a gear ratio with numerically lower ratio. However, the higher (numerical) gear ratio will reduce the torque needed to turn the propeller by the engine, working through the reduction gears. Since the general belief is the E-TEC G2 engine has torque in vast abundance, having a higher (numerical) gear ratio suggests it can turn propellers of higher pitch than the engine tested by Boston Whaler.

User avatar
InVision
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:04 am

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby InVision » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:48 pm

ETEC 150 HP model C150PXAA. Not sure what a Trac+ midsection is.

Proud owner of 2004 Boston Whaler 190 Nantucket ! ;)

Boat Photos

jimh
Posts: 5445
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby jimh » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:53 pm

InVision wrote:Not sure what a Trac+ midsection is.


I mentioned the TRAC+ and gave details about the TRAC+ in a reply to you that was posted earlier in this thread. Perhaps you did not read my remarks. Please see my earlier comments in this thread about the TRAC+ at

http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3350&p=19022#p19780

To go over it once more, the TRAC+ midsection is only available on the E-TEC G2 2.7-liter engines. Most E-TEC G2 engines have integrated hydraulic steering (IHS) or dynamic power steering (DPS) built into the E-TEC G2 midsection. The midsection on some models can be optioned to be a more traditional outboard engine midsection and transom mount, called the TRAC+ midsection.

The engine E-TEC G2 150-HP shown in the images in this thread has a TRAC+ midsection.

I explain further about the TRAC+ midsection in a separate thread. See

E-TEC G1-G2 Comparison at 200-HP
http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2213&p=12851

jimh
Posts: 5445
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby jimh » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:59 pm

InVision wrote:ETEC 150 HP model C150PXAA.

This model decodes as follow:
C = 66-degree V6 G2 model
150 = horsepower
P = Remote steering with TRAC+ midsection
X = 25-inch shaft
AA = first major variant

The coding system was described in detail in a prior thread. See

E-TEC G1-G2 Comparison at 200-HP
http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2213&p=12851

User avatar
InVision
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:04 am

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby InVision » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:59 pm

Ok I wanted the lightest 150-HP E-TEC G2. Still the Optimax 150hp was a few pounds lighter but the Optimax had an external oil tank. Also dealer said if I used existing SeaStar Hydraulic I needed the one without built in steering.

BTW - the best feature on the ETEC G2 by far is the iTrim (automatic trim) according to the first mate (my wife). :-)

Proud owner of 2004 Boston Whaler 190 Nantucket ! ;)

Boat Photos

jimh
Posts: 5445
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby jimh » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:10 pm

Here is the specification sheet for the E-TEC G2 150-HP engine:

https://www.evinrude.com/content/dam/evinrude/Global/MY2017/Documents/Spec-PDFs/PY17-Ev-Specs_G2_150hp.pdf

Your engine weighs 507-lbs. To compare with an engine with IHS or DPS, you should add the weight of your SeaStar hydraulic steering actuator assembly. I suspect that the assembly must weight 20-lbs.

If you had abandoned the SeaStar steering and bought an E-TEC with integrated hydraulic steering, the engine would have been 528-lbs. In other words, the integrated hydraulic steering engine would not weigh any more than your remote steering engine with your hydraulic actuator.

The problem at 150-HP models is there is no IHS model available. They are all TRAC+ models.

User avatar
InVision
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:04 am

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby InVision » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:01 pm

Phil T wrote:
First choice - 14" x 19" Mercury Enertia / Quicksilver Q3
Second Choice is the BPR RX4. Start with 19". Leave vent holes closed.


I would not settle on a prop because it is the one available at the dealer.

The Enertia recommendation was #1 and provided by a whaler prop guru who is widely respected. I recommend you visit a Mercury dealer and ask if you can borrow (leave deposit) 14x19 Enertia prop.


Well the dealer called ETEC "Prop Guru". He said based on data from running the 17P & 19P Viper props he recommends to try a Rebel 15"x17P. The Dealer offered to buy one in on his nickel so I could try. The guru also said that it is a know fact that the Viper "slips more". I have called around and have not found a Enertia 14"x19P to try yet. The dealer can order a RX4 in but it is on my nickel. Trying other evinrude dealers for an RX4 to try.

M

PS - BTW Does the G2 hub fit a Mercury Enertia Prop?

Proud owner of 2004 Boston Whaler 190 Nantucket ! ;)

Boat Photos

jimh
Posts: 5445
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power

Postby jimh » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:00 am

InVision wrote:...Does the G2 hub...

In the Evinrude propeller line there is NO "G2 hub." The Evinrude propellers use the Evinrude TBX hub.

InVision wrote:...fit a Mercury Enertia Prop?

If you want to fit a Mercury propeller onto an Evinrude engine, you should get the appropriate Mercury FLO-TORQ hub kit for the Evinrude, typically a FLO-TORQ II hub kit. It will include the thrust washer, the pliable insert, the coupling, any spacers needed, and the appropriate propeller shaft nut. I don't know for certain how the TBX hub would work with the Mercury propeller. It might work--but you'd have to try it and carefully check the fit.

InVision wrote:...based on data from running the 17P 9and] 19P Viper props he recommends to try a Rebel 15 x 17-pitch...

The three-blade REBEL TBX propeller is a good all-round propeller. A 17-pitch should be a good fit for your application.

User avatar
InVision
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:04 am

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power - Ended up with Evinrude ETEC G2...

Postby InVision » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:53 am

Thanks Jim.

It turns out there was a question about warranty if using another prop than Evinrude installed by dealer.

Going to try the Rebel 15 x17--pitch. Next stop is the RX4 at 15 x 18-pitch if the REBEL does not work out.

M

Proud owner of 2004 Boston Whaler 190 Nantucket ! ;)

Boat Photos

jimh
Posts: 5445
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power - Ended up with Evinrude ETEC G2...

Postby jimh » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:01 pm

InVision wrote:...turns out there was a question about warranty if using another prop than Evinrude installed by dealer....

Hmm. That is a interesting comment from your dealer. If there were such an exclusion in the engine warranty, the engine warranty would have some specific exclusion or qualification that would enforce that provision.

When I bought a new E-TEC engine, I fitted many propellers to it, and my dealer never indicated I would be voiding the warranty if I did not use an Evinrude propeller.

You might carefully read the engine warranty to assess if there is any actual exclusion in the warranty statement that requires using only Evinrude brand propellers. I am skeptical there is such an exclusion clause.

jimh
Posts: 5445
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power - Ended up with Evinrude ETEC G2...

Postby jimh » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:02 pm

InVision wrote:...Going to try the Rebel 15 x17-pitch. Next stop is the RX4 at 15 x 18-pitch if the REBEL does not work out.


Your plan is good. I encourage you to test both. I have a feeling the RX4 may be quite a good match for the E-TEC G2.

Try to collect lots of data. Your test results could help others to get advice on best propeller for the E-TEC G2.

User avatar
InVision
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:04 am

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power with Evinrude E-TEC G2

Postby InVision » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:18 pm

Jim that is the point. Exactly. Don't want to endanger my 10 year warranty !!

Will report back. As of now if the Rebel doesn't work well going for the RX4 !!

M

Proud owner of 2004 Boston Whaler 190 Nantucket ! ;)

Boat Photos

jimh
Posts: 5445
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power with Evinrude E-TEC G2

Postby jimh » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:44 am

Re the Evinrude TBX hub system:

The acronym TBX defines the propeller hub bushing design; the TBX is the latest design with a field replaceable hub and is illustrated below. Evinrude describes the TBX as follows:

TBX (Torsion Bushing Extreme) is designed to flex and cushion shock loads to help protect the lower unit drive train. Patented torsion sleeve and drive spline withstand extreme temperatures especially in high performance applications. A TBX prop hub kit comes with each propeller and the multi-piece design slips together keeping installation easy and simple.


To better understand the TBX bushing, see the illustration below that shows the thrust washer, the field-replaceable torsion sleeve, and the propeller shaft drive spline fitting. Note how the splines of the propeller shaft drive spline fitting engage the replaceable torsion sleeve over a longer distance than most hub assemblies of this type made by competitors.

Image
TBX Hub Kit consisting of thrust washer, torsion sleeve, and propeller shaft drive spline.
Photo by the author.


The TBX propeller hub design is patented and protected by U.S. Patent 6,383,042 entitled "Axial Twist Propeller Hub" issued to BRP on May 7, 2002. The patent describes "a propeller assembly that includes an interchangeable drive sleeve, a resilient inner hub having a bore in which the drive sleeve is inserted, and a propeller including an outer hub in which the drive sleeve and resilient inner hub are inserted."

The essential elements and unique design innovations which allow the TBX to be protected by a patent are explained in greater length in the patent itself, which can be easily viewed with this link:

http://www.google.ch/patents/US6383042

The use of the TBX patented hub began c.2006. Evinrude propellers designed for use with the TBX hub have a mating bore cast into them that fits the torsion sleeve insert. Here is what the casting bore looks like:

Image
Evinrude Cyclone series propeller, c.2006, showing bore design cast into hub.

Whether this bore is the same as used with competitors' propeller castings is not clear to me. It may very well be some sort of universal shape in common use.

User avatar
InVision
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:04 am

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power with Evinrude E-TEC G2

Postby InVision » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:28 am

Jim you are sure thorough--Thank you.

I have decided to stick with a Evinrude prop after talking with the local prop guru. He said they had a great design and if he had a E-TEC G2 he would use an Evinrude prop. He also said to get as close as I can with a prop. Then he would test and blueprint the prop as to pitch and cupping etc to tweak it just so. He did that on my last 25ft center console and I had incredible acceleration and dead on WOT with nearly 4 mph more top end speed from a big Yamaha. Not inexpensive but what is $200 in the scheme of the cost of the Re-Power.

M

Proud owner of 2004 Boston Whaler 190 Nantucket ! ;)

Boat Photos

jimh
Posts: 5445
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power with Evinrude E-TEC G2

Postby jimh » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:48 am

InVision wrote:Jim you are sure thorough...Thank you

You are welcome. The principal purpose of this forum is to collect and organize information. Information content is primary for me. I prefer to keep the signal-to-noise ratio in the forum as high as possible.

Yiddil
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:25 pm

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power with Evinrude E-TEC G2

Postby Yiddil » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:22 pm

Havnt been here in a long time, read through this post as I am considering a g2 down the line. Am putting icon ll gauges in next week as I've lost function on gas and oil after 10 years.
Finding the problem has been a real boondoggle, so I just said...to heck with it, lets upgrade the gauges, engine cd works great but I might go to the g2 if I can get a good deal and trade in on the g2, with a 10 year warranty, it's not a big deal for me to decide. Also, I'll already have the gauges:) wondered about the weight diff on the g2 vs the g2. Hello all, been to long, henry aka the yiddil

User avatar
InVision
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:04 am

Re: 2004 190 Nantucket Re-power with Evinrude E-TEC G2

Postby InVision » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:26 am

Hi Yiddil.

I would not put a ETEC G2 on my Nantucket 190 if I had to do it all over. One of reasons is weight. The G2 is almost 100 lbs heavier than the G1.

Don't get me wrong, I love the G2 motor feature wise. 10 year warranty is unprecedented. It looks sweet. Auto Trim is very nice.

The downside has been finding just the right prop. And I found out is not a Hydrafoil for the G2 yet. My Optimax 150hp had a StingRay Foil and it really helped with lower cruise speed and porpoising.

I have both the ICON Touch CTS and the ICON II Pro gauges. The Pro gauges look as close to stock as you can get. The ICON Touch CTS is admirable.

Hopefully I will get things ironed out and report back. Right now it is in the works...

M

Proud owner of 2004 Boston Whaler 190 Nantucket ! ;)

Boat Photos