YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Optimizing the performance of Boston Whaler boats
Simon
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YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Simon » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:04 am

Hi All. I found a floor model F70, supposedly model year 2015, for a decent price, but not an admirable price. I decided to go with this engine mainly because the shop is reputable and also specialize in YAMAHA, and also close to where I live.

I stopped by the shop to check out my boat after some transom work (done by another party) yesterday, which I'm extremely happy with, then decided to check out my motor in the shop. I took a closer look and the manufacture date (sticker) and it is 04/2014. Is it possible that this is still a model year 2015? Or did the shop make a mistake? I've already paid for this engine but they have not installed it yet.

Not sure what I should do if it is a model year 2014. I know there hasn't been a change from 2014 to 2015, but the value is less than a newer year.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Simon
1987 15' Sport CC

flymo
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby flymo » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:12 pm

Simon, Yamaha has not really had model years since about 2006 - they just do updates as needed. From a look at the parts listings a simyamaha, it appears that the last major update to the F70 was in 2012. But still, if the guy said it was from 2015 and it turns out to be early 2014, it's at least worth questioning. Has it been sitting around his shop for the past year? Probably not a big deal though it would seem he should have given you a better price if that's the case.

Tim
Last edited by flymo on Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jimh
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:52 pm

By 2013 the makers of outboard engines had ALL given up on model year designators. Evinrude was the last to give in to this trend. Some manufacturers, notably Brunswick with their Mercury brand, went to great lengths to suggest that elimination of model year designation was going to be a great asset to the consumer. As the initial narrative in this thread relates, lack of model year designation has just been a generally confusing addition to the purchase of outboard engines.

Today an outboard engine buyer can usually find out the date of production of the engine they are going to purchase, but knowing if that date of production provides the newest model available is still very hard to discover. I don't know how you can do it for most brands. I do know how to do it with Evinrude.

When Evinrude went to non-model-year designators, they just adopted a very simple two-character alphabet code to designate model epochs. They started with "AA". On some models and certain horsepower models the production designator code is now at AG. Evinrude has on-line resources available that clearly show the various product code epochs for each model. They don't make a big secret of it. For example, the most recent production epoch for a 75-HP E-TEC is the AF series. Don't infer there have been six epochs since 2013; in the 75-HP models there are only AA, AB, and AF production changes.

For a Yamaha F70 I am afraid I really have no idea where to look for a model designator, other than in the official model name itself. Yamaha usually adds an A or B suffix when they make a change in production. There might be an F70, and F70A, and an F70B, with all three being slightly different models. Look carefully at the engine to see its official model designator. It might contain more information than just "F70".

jimh
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby jimh » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:57 pm

Simon wrote:I know there hasn't been a change from 2014 to 2015, but the value is less than a newer year.


Yes--that is precisely true. We all know that. All the palaver from the manufacturers trying to explain how abandonment of model year designators was going to be a benefit conveniently forgot to explain that the primary beneficiary was going to be the dealer. He is now going to be able to sell that engine made over a year ago as a "current model", and he expects you to pay the same price as one made last week. That is the real benefit (for him) of the abandonment of model year designators.

Simon
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Simon » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:52 pm

The outboard engine is an F70LA so it hasn't changed from previous year. I spoke to the shop and they go by the year of the invoice, which in this case, the outboard was purchased in August 2014. According to the shop, a yamaha outboard invoiced after June 2014 will be basically a model year 2015 (due to time it takes to ship from Japan).

The engine is a floor model sitting around for 1.5 years but never installed. I agree with Jimh, now with the manufacturers abandoning the model year designation, the consumers end up paying for outboards that have been sitting around. I wonder by doing so, the shops are more willing to purchase more inventory, thus selling more units for the manufacturer.

At this point, since the outboard has not changed, it's not worth it for me to look for another one. This shop is most convenient for me and they service everything. They recommended an on-site private party to repair my transom, and they did an admirable job for a really good price.

Thanks everyone for your input. Looks like next weekend I'll have a brand new, made almost 2 years ago, F70LA on the boat. I made sure the shop knows to install it 2 holes up!

Simon
1987 15' Sport CC

Huckelberry145
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Huckelberry145 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:21 pm

I can't understand why an engine built in April of 2014 would be worth less than an engine built in November of 2015, so long as they are the same motor. I could understand if the engine had been used as a demo unit or has been exposed to the elements for a year it being devalued, but it's the same motor. You could get your money back for the motor in question and go pay full price for one made last week, but I wonder if after the newness wears off in a couple of years you'll realize that they were actually the same.

I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here I'm either looking to be educated about the way engines age when sitting in a dealer's showroom or just giving you another perspective.

flymo
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby flymo » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:58 am

Huck, if I have two identical cars to sell you, same mileage, everything, just one's a 2015 and the other is a 2014, which would you expect to pay more for? The 2015, of course. That's the concern here. 10 years from now, it's not a big deal, but if Simon were to resell the motor in the short term, it would matter.

And note that it's NOT necessarily the same motor - the manufacturers make design changes as they learn things. Sometimes it's a design change to save costs (which could be positive or negative from the consumer's point of view) but it also can be replacing a component that has proven unreliable with a better one.

Tim

Huckelberry145
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Huckelberry145 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:32 pm

Tim, that's the problem here. One of them is not a 2014 because like said before they don't use model year indicators anymore. And like you said in an earlier post, there haven't been any updates since well before the the motor was built in 2014. In addition to all of that, the dealer has given him a discount for it being a floor model and not sold as new. I agree about him selling it in the short term but he will have to advertise the motor as "purchased motor from "xyz" marine in January 2016" and discuss it being a floor model when the buyer arrives. Or like I said I before, go pay full price for one made last week and problem solved.

OR buy the motor, forget about when it was actually made, while paying less, and enjoy the whaler for many more years to come.

Huckelberry145
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Huckelberry145 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:40 pm

Automobiles are sold by model year, they typically sit on the lot in the weather all year and are test driven by anyone the dealer hands the key to while accruing mileage. That's why prior year automobiles cost substantially less. Totally different.

flymo
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby flymo » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:21 am

Huckelberry145 wrote:
OR buy the motor, forget about when it was actually made, while paying less, and enjoy the whaler for many more years to come.


The problem is that Simon did not pay less. If he had paid less, that would be perfectly fair. The dealer expected him to pay the same price for a motor that had been sitting on the shop floor for over a year as he would for a motor manufactured yesterday, even though the value, by some measure, is less. Any future potential buyer will look at the date of manufacture, and make a lower offer on one built in 2014 than they would for one built in 2015.

It's obvious why manufacturers now do it this way - it's an attempt to get full price for old stock. However, as customers, we don't have to put up with it. It's particularly irritating in this case because the dealer represented it as a 2015 motor when it clearly is not.

Seahorse
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Seahorse » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:21 am

Actually the elimination of yearly models was the brain child of the boat builders. With so many pre-rigged boats from the factories, they needed a way to cut down on year end inventory of motors, especially if they sold fewer boats than forecast.

Now the builders can stockpile motors and sell them on the back of their boats as brand new, even though they may have sat in inventory for over a year.

Yamaha, Evinrude, and others have a manufactured date sticker on the motors, as that is required to show that it met current emissions standards for that time period.

alloyboy
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby alloyboy » Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:57 am

flymo wrote:
Huckelberry145 wrote:
OR buy the motor, forget about when it was actually made, while paying less, and enjoy the whaler for many more years to come.


The problem is that Simon did [b]not pay less.[/b] If he had paid less, that would be perfectly fair. The dealer expected him to pay the same price for a motor that had been sitting on the shop floor for over a year as he would for a motor manufactured yesterday, even though the value, by some measure, is less. Any future potential buyer will look at the date of manufacture, and make a lower offer on one built in 2014 than they would for one built in 2015.

It's obvious why manufacturers now do it this way - it's an attempt to get full price for old stock. However, as customers, we don't have to put up with it. It's particularly irritating in this case because the dealer represented it as a 2015 motor when it clearly is not.


It is hard to say that he did not pay less. Let's use an example where the buyer was informed of the production date of 2014. The seller gave him a price for that particular motor. The buyer might have then said "Mr. Dealer I want a fresher motor that was produced in 2015". The dealer would probably have said "OK, I will have to go and get one from Yamaha or a boat builder. The price of course will be higher than the one that I have in the shop because the costs of motors has gone up over time."

Is the newer motor being priced higher or is the older motor being priced lower? Some might argue that Simon is paying less for an older motor than he would be paying had he decided to buy a newer motor.

Full disclosure by the dealer of course might have prevented any misunderstanding and would have at least given the purchaser the option of spending more or spending less. To a dealer a Yamaha F70LA made in 2014 is the exact same motor as the same model made in 2015. Customers do not necessarily agree with dealers on this however.

Simon
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Simon » Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:22 am

Full disclosure by the dealer of course might have prevented any misunderstanding and would have at least given the purchaser the option of spending more or spending less. To a dealer a Yamaha F70LA made in 2014 is the exact same motor as the same model made in 2015. Customers do not necessarily agree with dealers on this however.


This is exactly how I feel. The dealer has not installed the engine yet so perhaps I may negotiate for a "newer" engine. When the time comes to sell the engine, I hope to find buyers as understanding as Huckleberry. I agree with him to some degree, but as consumers we typically want to pay less for something that has been sitting vs the same thing that just finished being built.
1987 15' Sport CC

Huckelberry145
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Huckelberry145 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:49 am

Simon wrote: I hope to find buyers as understanding as Huckleberry. I agree with him to some degree, but as consumers we typically want to pay less for something that has been sitting vs the same thing that just finished being built.


So long as it is the same motor and hasn't been damaged and best we can tell is is and hasn't. He said he got it for a "decent price" which I am assuming is less than full price. As humans, we think too logarithmically. We would jump at the chance to save $10.00 on lunch but would walk away from a deal of the same savings of $1000 or more. Also, us humans are more sensitive to loss than we are to gain.

I'm sure I would be pretty upset when I found out that the year of manufacture was around a year earlier than I was led to believe. So I will admit that I agree with the general consensus of the thread. Full disclosure = better deal.

jimh
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby jimh » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:48 pm

Huckelberry145 wrote: As humans, we think too logarithmically


Please explain what element of human thinking is related to logarithms. Also, what number base does our thinking use naturally?

Acseatsri
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Acseatsri » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:55 pm

If it were me buying the boat and motor combination in say 3 years, now I'd be looking at a 5 year old motor. It may not make any difference to the dealer, but I think it really hurts the resale value, as you'd look up the year by the serial number and see that 5 year old manufacture date. How much less is a used 3-year old motor worth vs a 5 year old motor?

Whal
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Whal » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:29 am

I have a 2014 Yamaha F70lA that has a manufacture date of July 2013 and I bought the motor in Janruary of 2014. WhenI picked up my new motor I was given a Certificate of Origin that has the date the motor was put in service,Janurary 2014 because of that my motor is considered a 2014. If you live in a state that makes you title an outboard motor your title will also have that date of origin on it. It's not just Yamaha doing this, but I think most outboard manufacturers now date their motors this way. Make sure you keep all your paperwork when you buy a new motor so you will have proof of the so called model year of your motor.That's progress!

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Dutchman
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Dutchman » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:55 am

Acseatsri wrote:If it were me buying the boat and motor combination in say 3 years, now I'd be looking at a 5 year old motor. It may not make any difference to the dealer, but I think it really hurts the resale value, as you'd look up the year by the serial number and see that 5 year old manufacture date. How much less is a used 3-year old motor worth vs a 5 year old motor?


I say it depends on the running hours and at which speeds. All modern outboards can give you a history showing that.
I would rather have a 5-year-old engine with 100-hours on it than a 3-year-old engine with 300-hours on it. Both are used and older
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jimh
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby jimh » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:17 am

The notion put forth by the manufacturers to explain why model-year dating of engines was no longer important suggested that there might be no difference between two engines made in different years, that is, the design and manufacture of the engines were identical, they were just made at different times. To assist the customer in tracking any actual differences between engines in their design and production, the manufacturers said or implied or hoped the customer would believe that there would be clear and distinctive markings or indications or model designators given to each different model when the design or production changed, and this model identifier would clearly identify differences between products in their design and production. However, it seems to me, very little has been done by the manufacturers.

Some manufacturers continue to use the same product identification name or model name or otherwise describe their outboard engines with the exact same designators, even when enormous and obvious changes in the design and production of those engines has occurred. For example, Brunswick has been calling their Mercury 90-HP FOURSTROKE outboard by that name, even thought they have made three or four completely different models. To the customer, the engine was a "Mercury 90-HP FOURSTOKE" all during many years of significant changes when Brunswick was insisting they no longer had any model year identification. But these engines had completely different designs--fundamental changes like displacement of the engine and clearly visible difference in appearance. Consumers were forced to talk about these engines by reference to a production year, even though the entire basis for elimination of model year designators was intended to avoid talking about engines by reference to a particular year.

Tight line
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Re: YAMAHA F70 manufacture date

Postby Tight line » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:44 pm

Made date and year model are not always the same. Peace