Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Optimizing the performance of Boston Whaler boats
ewsheridan
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Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby ewsheridan » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:41 pm

[This topic had been moved to PERFORMANCE for discussion. The PERFORMANCE forum is the home of discussions about re-powering a Boston Whaler boat.--jimh]

Currently [the 1998 OUTRAGE 20 boat under discussion has] a 1998 Mercury 200-HP two-stroke-power-cycle engine with [electronically controled throttle-body fuel metering]. I would love a [new four-stroke-power-cycle engine] mainly for how quiet it would be. But I am worried a about the increase in engine weight.

With the engine weight as it is now, water basically runs through the [aft] scuppers.

The only other reference point I have is the [capacity] plate says [the 1998 OUTRAGE 20] can take a maximum 200-HP .

[Solicits advice]. I don't know what I'm doing.

jimh
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby jimh » Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:11 pm

Generally the maximum engine weight is not listed on the boat's capacity plate, as that limit is not required by federal regulations to be included in the placard in the boat. If Boston Whaler specified a maximum engine weight, you would have to find it in Boston Whaler literature. You can also contact Boston Whaler customer service, and inquire with them for a recommended maximum engine weight.

The noise signature of modern outboard engines will generally be an improvement compared to a c.1998 Mercury two-stroke-power-cycle engine that was designed and manufactured with very little attention to noise levels. However, the most significant difference between modern-engine and older-engine noise levels will occur in the idle speed range. At idle speeds there will be a dramatic difference in noise. At higher throttle settings as used for operating the boat on plane, the noise level will still favor the modern engine, but the difference won't be as great.

The 1998 Mercury 200-HP we are discussing is likely to be a 2.5-liter displacement, and those engines are really nice outboard engines. If your engine is in good condition and running well, to discard the engine and re-power with a modern 200-HP engine will probably cost about $15,000. If a decrease in the engine noise at idle is the goal of the re-power, you should assess the value of that noise reduction.

A modern outboard engine will also give you better fuel economy. Unless you operate the boat several hundred hours per year, and unless you live where fuel costs are very high, there is little chance you will ever recover the cost of the new engine in saved fuel expense. Even if a new engine cuts your fuel use in half, at the crazily low price of gasoline fuel now in the USA, you just can't save $15,000 in fuel in any reasonable amount of time.

Of course, if you want a new engine, you should get one. Life's short, and we boaters should enjoy our free time. And modern engines generally need less routine maintenance and are very reliable. And they're fun.

Since your boat is rigged for a Mercury engine, there may be some advantage to buying another Mercury engine in that can re-use the the engine remote throttle and shift controls. However, most modern engines now use electronic shift and throttle controls (EST), so your 21-year-old mechanical controls may be of no value.

At one time engine instruments could be re-used, but now most modern outboard engines use NMEA-2000 electronic controls. Only Mercury does not use NMEA-2000. Instead they use their own proprietary system called Smartcraft. But in either case, new Mercury or new non-Mercury, your existing gauges and rigging are likely to be of no value when the boat is re-powered with a modern engine. You should include the expense of new remote controls, new instrumentation, and the cost of the labor to remove the old and install the new in your assessment of engine costs.

If you have a Mercury brand preference, look at the Mercury V6 200 FOURSTROKE (but not the VERADO).

If you don't have a brand preference, look at the engine brands a local dealer is selling. In my estimation, the dealer from whom you will buy your new engine and who will install and rig your new engine is as important as the brand of engine, and perhaps more important. All new engines will need after-sale support, and proper rigging is crucial.


The Mercury V6 200 FOURSTROKE (not VERADO) will weigh about 500-lbs for the XL (25-inch) shaft model. Most other modern 200-HP engine will be in that weight range. For example, the Evinrude E-TEC G2 200 weighs 507-lbs. The small-displacement in-line four-cyclinder Yamaha F200 weighs 489-lbs in the 25-inch shaft.

Go to a winter boat show and look around at what's available at 200-HP.

ewsheridan
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby ewsheridan » Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:51 pm

Your reply is extremely helpful to illustrate all the factors and conditions I need to consider. I've prepared for the sticker shock. Definitely agree the dealers around me will know best, but wanted to do my homework before I walk in.

The [1998 Mercury 200-HP two-stroke-power-cycle] engine starts and runs, but is very rough and smokes a lot. I had a mechanic work on it. The mechanic I hired replaced a few things and tuned up the engine. He said it's as good as is its going to get.

I am considering all engine types and brands. Mostly looking at Yamaha four-stroke-power-cycle engines, Mercury two-stroke and four-stroke-pwer-cycle engines, Evinrude E-TEC engines, and Suzuki engines.

I'm leaning most toward Yamaha because everyone around me in [Massachusets] has one.

I hope the veterans here can recommend what would best fit my boat.

jimh
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby jimh » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:04 am

ewsheridan wrote:The [1998 Mercury 200-HP two-stroke-power-cycle] engine starts and runs, but is very rough and smokes a lot.


The 1998 Mercury 200-HP two-stroke-power-cycle engine is a very good engine. If the engine is in proper tune and properly maintained, it should not run roughly.

If there is too much smoke in the exhaust, you should change the oil that you are using to be a better grade of oil. Choose a synthetic oil with additives. Upgrade to a premium oil to reduce smoke in the exhaust. Don't use cheap $5-per-gallon Walmart oil. Try using the premium Mercury-brand oil. Find a better mechanic to get the engine properly tuned and maintained. Those older Mercury 2.5-liter V6 engines are very good engines and can run for thousands of hours. I know a boat rigged with twin 200-HP engines that have 4,000-hours of run time and are in perfect condition, although they needed a lot of maintenance to keep them there.

My two-stroke-power-cycle engine has no smoke in the exhaust. I use a synthetic lubricating oil with additives.

I have observed that the local preference for engine brand is quite unique to various locations. In saltwater areas the Yamaha engines seem to be popular, in spite of their poor history of corrosion protection in saltwater in their four-stroke-power-cycle engines.

biggiefl
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby biggiefl » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:24 am

Suzuki makes a light 200hp.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

ewsheridan
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby ewsheridan » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:42 pm

Super helpful. I bought the boat in April last year and it ran all year, just a little smokey at startup and moving slowly. At idle and moving slowly the engine jumps around a bit more than I'm used to. I mean not for nothing she starts up on the first crank every time after 22 years so I think that speaks the the quality of Merc, and she has gotten a lot of use.

I am confident in my mechanic and hoping it runs better but went into this knowing I'd like to repower in two years.

Q: If I put a 150-HP on the 1998 OUTRAGE 20, would the boat be be underpowered?

Really like that Mercury 150 FOURSTROKE, but I am nervous I would be wishing the boat still had 200-HP. But then I'm nervous a 200-HP engine is too much weight.

biggiefl
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby biggiefl » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:49 pm

A 200-HP engine is not too much weight. A 225-HP engine can be [too much weight], but a few lightweight four-cylinder four-stroke-power-cycle engines are out there.

As Phil would say" "...put the extra weight back there and see." But—honestly—you will not notice 30 to 50-lbs—if [the new engine added weight] is even that much.

My Outrage 18 has well over 500-lbs on its transom, and it is probably going to have another 100-lbs more if I don't find a four-cylinder 200-HP engine in my price range.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

roundle1979
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby roundle1979 » Wed May 06, 2020 5:58 pm

I read this [thread] with interest. I have a 2004 190 Nantucket or 190 Outrage with its original Mercury Optimax 135 (also a 2.5-liter V6, albeit slightly more complex than [the 1998 Mercury 200-HP two-stroke-power-cycle engine the OP wants to replace).

While I only have 200 hours on my Mercury Optimax 135 engine, I have thought about the re-power scenario. Here are my opinions and (amateur) research:

Yamaha: The F150, F175, and F200 2.7 or 2.8-liter inLine-4 (L4) seems like a great choice. At 480-lbs, it's just a bit heavier than your current engine. That said, you'll drop the oil tank so the difference is negligible.

Suzuki DF150, DF175, and DF200 inline-4. On paper, I like this engine more than the Yamaha. For example, it has a timing chain rather than a timing belt. However, it is heavier than the Yamaha. Major draw-back for me is that there are not many dealers or mechanics near me. I also like that these engines are available in white.

Mercury 150, 200, 200 Pro XS: The 150 is a 3.0-liter L4 SOHC (big displacement, simple); if you look at the Boston Whaler performance spec sheet for the current Outrage 190, the 150 L4 seems to perform as well as the larger/heavier 200 V6 DOHC, so it's worth having a look. The 200 V6 is interesting; however, if I were to go Mercury, I'd probably have a look at 200 Pro XS V8. While the weight might be pushing the limit a bit, 200 Pro XS V8 is probably the most powerful 200 you'll find (and it will sound glorious).

Honda: The BF135 and BF150 L4 are on the heavy side when you compare to modern Yamaha or Mercury L4 engines; the BF200, BF225, and BF250 V6 are probably too heavy for your [1998 OUTRAGE 20] boat

Evinrude: I've not considered
2004 Nantucket 190 w/ Mercury Optimax 135

jimh
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby jimh » Thu May 07, 2020 9:17 am

ROUND'--if you are re-powering a 2004 boat that had a Mercury engine, you should assess the value of re-using all the current Mercury engine rigging with a re-power with a new Mercury engine. It may be--I can't tell you for sure--that you could re-use all the engine wiring harnesses, the remote throttle and shift controls, and all the gauges. If that were true, then the cost of re powering with a Mercury engine would be less than changing brands. Any non-Mercury engine you bought for the boat would likely need about $1,000 or more in new rigging.

Regarding Evinrude engines, they have had a history of incentive offers related to rigging. In come cases they were giving a $1,500 rigging credit with a new engine purchase. The E-TEC legacy engines--no longer in production in the 150-HP and up range--generally had a weight advantage over four-stroke-power-cycle engines from competitors. But the weight advantage has been lost. The new second generation E-TEC engines got heavier and the new second generation four-stroke-power-cycle engines got lighter. The E-TEC no longer provides a weight advantage. If comparing to the E-TEC G2 engines, most models include their own hydraulic steering actuator. You can remove the external hydraulic steering actuator on your boat when re powering. That trims about 20-lbs off the transom. To compare E-TEC G2 engines weight to engines that do not have their own steering actuator, you should allow for that difference.

Re the SUZUKI dealers and technicians: I have noticed that support for Suzuki can be very localized. Some areas have very dominant Suzuki dealers who won their market, and you see hundreds of them, while in other areas you seldom see one Suzuki outboard. It really depends on the area.

ewsheridan
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby ewsheridan » Thu May 07, 2020 9:41 am

These are the posts I was looking for and you guys delivered.

I got good news from my mechanic. He was able to sandblast the engine mount bolts and weld them on. That might make a few people nervous here but it would give me another year or so with a perfectly running 22-year-old engine and time to save [for a new engine].

I am leaning Yamaha 200-HP. I got a few quotes for new engine and controls at $18,500. There are a bunch of Yamaha dealers around me.

Thank you all for the support. I'll be ready to rock with confidence when the time comes.

biggiefl
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby biggiefl » Thu May 07, 2020 10:33 am

Is the $18,500 quote for installation, tax, tag, out the door? If not, that is pretty steep.

Down here I can get a Suzuki 200 installed out the door for around $14,000 and a 150-HP is in the $12,000's.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).

ewsheridan
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby ewsheridan » Thu May 07, 2020 10:44 am

[The price I mentioned earlier for installation of a new engine at $18,500 was a quote from a dealer that included the engine being] Installed [by the dealer] and all controls converting from my existing rigging with the Mercury engine.

roundle1979
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby roundle1979 » Thu May 07, 2020 7:39 pm

jimh wrote:ROUND'--if you are re-powering a 2004 boat that had a Mercury engine, you should assess the value of re-using all the current Mercury engine rigging with a re-power with a new Mercury engine. It may be--I can't tell you for sure--that you could re-use all the engine wiring harnesses, the remote throttle and shift controls, and all the gauges. If that were true, then the cost of re powering with a Mercury engine would be less than changing brands. Any non-Mercury engine you bought for the boat would likely need about $1,000 or more in new rigging.


Great point.

If my rigging were not pushing 17 years of age, I'd definitely consider re-using.

Also worth mentioning, my SeaStar steering--with only 200 hours--is probably re-usable as well; however, given age, I'd consider refreshing as well.
2004 Nantucket 190 w/ Mercury Optimax 135

jimh
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Re: Re-power 1998 Outrage 20

Postby jimh » Fri May 08, 2020 8:24 am

When re-powering an older boat, two other elements of the boat rigging should also be carefully assessed and considered for upgrades.

The fuel system should get careful scrutiny. Replace suspect hoses, filters, and fittings. Be sure the fuel tank is clean, has no leaks, and there is no obstruction in the pick-up tube(s). Any fuel in the tank should be fresh, and the fuel should be free of water contamination. Nothing causes problems faster on a new engine than running it from a damaged fuel supply system or bad fuel.

The boat electrical system also needs a review. Make sure the battery or batteries, battery switch, and all wiring is in excellent condition. Modern engines need very strong battery systems to start and run properly, and connecting them to old and worn boat electrical systems can damage a new engine. They do not like intermittent connections, low voltage, or other electrical problems with the battery connected to them.