160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Optimizing the performance of Boston Whaler boats
Tulley
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Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:40 pm

160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Tulley » Tue May 03, 2016 10:44 am

I just bought a 2002 Boston Whaler Dauntless 160 with a 2002 Yamaha F115 four-stroke-power-cycle outboard. The boat is hard to get on plane . [Described engine mounting height ambiguously. Please describe engine mounting height according to the standard method used in this forum. See the article "Engine Mounting Height" in the forum listing under "Announcements."] The engine has a 13 x 17 propeller and I got a extra 13.5 x 15 K propeller in a box. Both are aluminum .

Will [either the 13 x 17 propeller or the 13.5 x 15 K] propeller work?

Or, do I need a different propeller?

I would like to water ski behind this boat and train small grandkids. I will only be in small, fresh water lakes, never saltwater. Any help be greatly appreciated. Thanks

macfam
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby macfam » Tue May 03, 2016 1:16 pm

Do you have a tachometer?

If yes, what is the rpm at wide open throttle with the engine trimmed up for fastest speed? It should be close to the maximum allowable rpm in your manual. If the rpm are below the max by more than 500 rpm, try using the 15-pitch prop. See how that works out for maximizing engine RPM.

If the 15-pitch propeller reaches engines maximum RPM stick. with it for pulling tubes and skiers.

Look into a stainless steel propeller. Perhaps your local dealer can assist. Stainless steel props are stronger, thinner, and more durable. Generally, if you choose the right size, [they are also] better performing.

Do you have a quality dealer near you?

If you've got the right dealer, they SHOULD let you try a few stainless propellers to determine the best all around one for your boating purposes. If they don't, try another dealer if possible.

Tulley
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Tulley » Tue May 03, 2016 1:56 pm

The boat has a tachometer. There are no dealers within 175 miles of me. I will look into stainless. Thanks

Jefecinco
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Jefecinco » Wed May 04, 2016 10:39 am

[Acceleration from a standing start onto plane at full throttle] is always a problem with the Dauntless 16. I installed a four-blade stainless steel Stiletto on my DAUNTLESS 16, and it dramatically improved performance. In my experience, [changing to a four-blade stainless steel Stiletto propeller] is the single best improvement that can be done to enhance the performance .

Unfortunately, I'm away from home and don't have access to my records and cannot provide the propeller model or dimensions.
Butch

Tulley
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Tulley » Wed May 04, 2016 1:03 pm

Thanks. I really need all the help I can get

Tim S
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Tim S » Fri May 06, 2016 4:21 pm

I also have a 2001 Dauntless with the transom notch and a Yamaha F100. I love the boat. It took me a while to get it dialed in. [The 2001 Dauntless ] didn't have acceleration [problems]; rather [the 2001 Dauntless] porpoised. To keep the bow down in any sort of chop was troublesome. My goal was to obtain a more bow-down attitude at cruising speed. Changes made in order.

--added stainless three-blade propeller that helped with acceleration and reduced porpoising.

--raised engine to highest mounting position. This helped somewhat with bow down and further improved acceleration.

--added foil, which significantly helped with low speed planning ability, and reduced bow rise at take off.

--added transom wedge, which was the best $30 I've spent. It allowed me a much greater trim range. I can now plant the bow down in any sort of chop. Or raise the engine way up at WOT and ride on the last foot of the hull.

In my opinion the Dauntless 16, with the notch, was not built for a heavy [engine that uses a four-stroke-power-cycle]. With the added weight and short waterline it needs help getting on a plane and keeping the bow down. The wedge helps with both. I'm planning on removing the foil this summer to see if it's needed anymore.

Or maybe Yamaha built their engines without enough negative trim range ;).

rsantiago
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby rsantiago » Fri May 06, 2016 11:13 pm

Hello Tulley--I have a 2001 Dauntless 16 with the Yamaha F100. I use a Yamaha 13x17 black stainless steel propeller with the engine mounted one hole away from the highest engine setting. I also have a DOEL-FIN-brand foil mounted on the [anti-ventilation] plate. This set up has worked well for me. I tried a Yamaha aluminum 13x17 propellre, and found it to be inadequate for planing and keeping the bow down when necessary. I recommend you try a stainless steel propeller that would allow you to reach the maximum RPM range for your engine at full throttle.

Tim S--My experience with the Dauntless 16 is similar to yours. Once it was "dialed in" it has been a great boat.

Jefecinco
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Jefecinco » Sat May 07, 2016 12:16 pm

Tulley,

In that you have an F-115 engine on your Dauntless (the maximum recommended HP) I doubt a hydrofoil will provide any performance improvement. What your boat will derive the most benefit from is the optimum engine mounting height combined with the optimum propeller.

Even if I had the information on the propeller that made a "drag racer" out of my Dauntless 16 with a 115 HP engine I doubt it would be the ideal propeller for your use. The 115 HP engine on my Dauntless was a two stroke cycle Evinrude FICHT. Because of the differences between the weights, gear ratios and torque/horsepower curves between the two engines use of an identical propeller would probably provide different results.
Butch

Tulley
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Tulley » Sat May 07, 2016 3:08 pm

Thanks everyone

I have called a few dealers they all say the 2002 dauntless came out more with Mercury motors and they have no info on. A Yamaha 115 four stroke

Tulley
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Tulley » Sat May 07, 2016 3:12 pm

I have the 13x17 black stainless prop that I was having trouble getting on plane. One dealer suggested I try it with the 13x15 alum see if that works better

Going to lake tomorrow to try it out.

Ready for any ideas.

If still have problems will move it up a hole see if that helps

Thanks for the ideas

Tulley
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Tulley » Sat May 07, 2016 3:19 pm

Tim S. Got a link to a transom wedge. I googled and got all kinds of pictures

Jefecinco
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Jefecinco » Sun May 08, 2016 10:59 am

Tulley,

You neither need nor want to have a bottom wedge on your Dauntless.

I suggest you do a search for Tom W Clark in Seattle, WA. He is very highly qualified to give advice on precise propeller applications. You might try an email to tomwclark@comcast.net or it may be .com. He also hangs out on a couple of the other boating web sites/forums.
Butch

Tim S
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Tim S » Mon May 09, 2016 10:12 am

I got my prop from Tom Clark too. He's a great help in selecting the right prop for your boat/engine combination and the stainless prop he recommended for me did make a big difference. However I did find that even with an excellent prop and the engine mounted all the way up, that this little boat with a heavy four stroke needed more tuck trim. If you search for Dauntless 16 on this site you'll find many people actually put trim tabs on the boat to get the bow down and stop the porpoising. The solution that worked for me was a transom wedge. The wedge provided an extra 5 degrees of bow down trim.

The good thing is that with the transom wedge I can put the bow down as much as I want, however I still have the ability to trim the engine back to the same position that it was in before the wedge. In that the only thing I've really done is added the ability to get bow down. And at approx $30.00 it is a cheap add on to try to dial the boat in.

In my opinion this vintage Dauntless with a heavy four stroke wasn't designed quite right. The boat should be "good enough" with an aluminum prop, with the engine mounted in the middle and nothing else needed. Unfortunately the stock set up is not "good enough" and the boat needs some tweaking. I'm sure there are many combinations of things that would make this boat go well.

The great thing is once you get it dialed in it's a great little BIG boat!

jimh
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby jimh » Mon May 09, 2016 12:06 pm

I haven't seen a post here from Tom Clark in a while, since the new forum started up in October or even earlier. I also heard he isn't participating in WHALER CENTRAL, either, from some folks who are active there. The STILETTO brand propellers that he formerly had available for sale are not being made any more. All the recommendations Tom made in the past regarding propeller selection are still archived on CONTINUOUSWAVE.COM and available to all visitors--no special credentials or joining or registration necessary. The goal of continuouswave.com has always been to collect and organize information, and preserve it so that the information content is available to all without forcing any sort of creation of an identity or registration or use of log-in credentials.

Tulley
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Tulley » Mon May 09, 2016 9:13 pm

Thanks every one I check the contenous wave before my post. But did not see any Dauntless 160 with the Yamaha motor 115 hp

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Phil T
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Phil T » Thu May 12, 2016 8:16 pm

The motor should be 2 holes up.

The brand of motor does not matter in this case.

Threads from the archive, slow to plane:

http://www.continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/007152.html
http://www.continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/004017.html
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

Tulley
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby Tulley » Fri May 13, 2016 11:01 pm

Thanks nice reading

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GoldenDaze
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Re: 160 DAUNTLESS, Yamaha F115, Hard to Plane

Postby GoldenDaze » Sat May 28, 2016 10:22 pm

While your engine is different than my 2003 Mercury 115 5-stroke, it's not that different... in fact I believe it's exactly the same powerhead. My 160 Dauntless was also hard to get on plane with a full tank of fuel and a couple of people with it's original 16" Vengeance stainless prop. Switching to a 17" 4-blade Trophy Plus made a huge difference. Even though the Trophy Plus is nominally higher in pitch, in practice it didn't work out that way.

See https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjspuenm_7MAhUMGx4KHUgyD3EQFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcontinuouswave.com%2Fubb%2FForum4%2FHTML%2F004868.html&usg=AFQjCNEXcgDOKkARBgMB6BgWC3C-uxuLeQ&sig2=sOU85KSAZCXc94gDP3qlKA for my discussion of 3 different props on this boat. I had wanted to try a 5-blade High Five, but never found one in the right pitch, and 10 years later I am still happily running the Trophy Plus.

-Bob
2003 160 Dauntless Golden Daze