I have a 2010 E-TEC 200-HP engine with a 135-Ampere alternator. The specifications state "133-Amps Total/50 Dedicated." I don't know what the Evinrude terminology means. Can anyone [explain the meaning of the Evinrude specification]?
The automatic combiner relay (ACR) models are rated at up to 65-Amperes or up to 130-Amperes. I assume I need the 130-Ampere model.
E-TEC Engine Charging Output; ACR Rating
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padrefigure
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Re: E-TEC Engine Charging Output
The alternator of the V6 E-TEC engine can only provide 50-Ampere of charging current.
Evinrude describes the alternator electrical output as 133-Amperes, with 50-Amperes of it reserved for the battery charging output. The other electrical current is used for operating the engine.
I believe that Evinrude lists both the total current and the current reserved for battery charging in order to make the alternator specification for its engine comparable with other manufacturers, who tend to just list the total electrical power output of the alternator, and do not account for how much of that total is consumed by the engine.
The specification of the capacity of the automatic combiner relay (ACR) really is not directly related to the engine charging current. I would solicit advice from the manufacturer of the ACR about which model is best for your application.
Evinrude describes the alternator electrical output as 133-Amperes, with 50-Amperes of it reserved for the battery charging output. The other electrical current is used for operating the engine.
I believe that Evinrude lists both the total current and the current reserved for battery charging in order to make the alternator specification for its engine comparable with other manufacturers, who tend to just list the total electrical power output of the alternator, and do not account for how much of that total is consumed by the engine.
The specification of the capacity of the automatic combiner relay (ACR) really is not directly related to the engine charging current. I would solicit advice from the manufacturer of the ACR about which model is best for your application.
Re: E-TEC Engine Charging Output
If the electrical power to recharge a battery is stated as 50 amps, at nominally 12 volts, that is 600 watts. Comparable favorably with most any outboard motor using a permanent magnet generator.
Now if the output to the motor is 83 amps, at 55 volts, that is a serious electrical generation system. An additional 4565 watts. What in the heck kind of magnets are they using?
Now if the output to the motor is 83 amps, at 55 volts, that is a serious electrical generation system. An additional 4565 watts. What in the heck kind of magnets are they using?
Re: E-TEC Engine Charging Output
I don't have any more information about the E-TEC. Its alternator does generate current at 55-Volts, but I don't know how the specifications in the alternator listing relate to power at 12-Volts compared to 55-Volts. It may be that when listing the electrical power of the alternator as "133-Amperes" the reference is to 12-Volt power, which would then be 12 × 133 = 1596-Watts. That represents about 2-HP, or less than one-percent of the power of my 225-HP engine. To infer that the listing of 133-Amperes is to be computed at 55-Volts, as suggested, would imply a lot more electrical power was being generated, 7315-Watts or about 10-HP. I don't think it is reasonable to assume that the E-TEC engines are using 10-HP to generate electrical power to run themselves and put out 50-Amperes of battery charging. I started a thread on the E-TEC owner's website, where some factory electrical people participate, to inquire more about this E-TEC specification and the extra 83-Amperes. Perhaps they can clear this up.
UPDATE: the E-TEC experts cite data from Evinrude that says the E-TEC V6 alternator can output a total of 1,700-Watts. In expressing this as "Amperes" and saying 133-Amperes, the inference is the electrical power output is being stated as if all the power were being output at 12.8-Volts. Also, 1,700-Watts is about 2.3-HP, or about one-percent of the power of a 200-HP engine.
Most all of the electrically operated devices in the E-TEC run from the 55-Volt bus. Those components are the fuel injectors, the EMM, the oil pump, and maybe some other devices. The 55-Volt power gets converted to 12-Volts for battery charging.
The bottom line on the E-TEC: it is the only engine I know that generates so much electrical power that it can START and run without a battery. So don't lose sleep about E-TEC alternator output.
UPDATE: the E-TEC experts cite data from Evinrude that says the E-TEC V6 alternator can output a total of 1,700-Watts. In expressing this as "Amperes" and saying 133-Amperes, the inference is the electrical power output is being stated as if all the power were being output at 12.8-Volts. Also, 1,700-Watts is about 2.3-HP, or about one-percent of the power of a 200-HP engine.
Most all of the electrically operated devices in the E-TEC run from the 55-Volt bus. Those components are the fuel injectors, the EMM, the oil pump, and maybe some other devices. The 55-Volt power gets converted to 12-Volts for battery charging.
The bottom line on the E-TEC: it is the only engine I know that generates so much electrical power that it can START and run without a battery. So don't lose sleep about E-TEC alternator output.
Re: E-TEC Engine Charging Output
I got up this morning, had a couple of cups of coffee, and came up with this analysis of the E-TEC engine's battery charging ouput:
The battery charging output is said to be 50-Amperes at 14.4-Volts, which is a power of 720-Watts. If we assume the voltage conversion and regulation is 100-percent efficient, we then know that the power input to the voltage regulator must also be 720-Watts. The regulator itself does not create new energy, it just converts the voltage level and regulates it.
The input power is from a 55-Volt source, which would suggest that the current would be 13.1-Amperes to produced 720-Watts. However, we know that the duty cycle of the regulator pulse-width is about 0.25, that is the 55-Volts is allowed to flow into the regulator only one-quarter of the time.
If the average power into the regulator is going to be 720-Watts, then when the current is allowed to flow into the regulator from the 55-Volt source, the average current over time must total 13.1-Amperes. If the current only flows one-quarter of the time (0.25 duty cycle), then when the current does flow it must be 13.1/0.25 = 52.5-Amperes.
Now we have enough current flowing into the regulator to create the 50-Ampere output flow, but at a lower voltage.
The voltage conversion is not quite 100-percent efficient, so actually more than 720-Watts must be input to the regulator for the regulator to produce 710-Watts output. This suggests that the input current, when flowing, will be even higher than 52.4-Amperes.
The battery charging output is said to be 50-Amperes at 14.4-Volts, which is a power of 720-Watts. If we assume the voltage conversion and regulation is 100-percent efficient, we then know that the power input to the voltage regulator must also be 720-Watts. The regulator itself does not create new energy, it just converts the voltage level and regulates it.
The input power is from a 55-Volt source, which would suggest that the current would be 13.1-Amperes to produced 720-Watts. However, we know that the duty cycle of the regulator pulse-width is about 0.25, that is the 55-Volts is allowed to flow into the regulator only one-quarter of the time.
If the average power into the regulator is going to be 720-Watts, then when the current is allowed to flow into the regulator from the 55-Volt source, the average current over time must total 13.1-Amperes. If the current only flows one-quarter of the time (0.25 duty cycle), then when the current does flow it must be 13.1/0.25 = 52.5-Amperes.
Now we have enough current flowing into the regulator to create the 50-Ampere output flow, but at a lower voltage.
The voltage conversion is not quite 100-percent efficient, so actually more than 720-Watts must be input to the regulator for the regulator to produce 710-Watts output. This suggests that the input current, when flowing, will be even higher than 52.4-Amperes.
Re: E-TEC Engine Charging Output
The E-TEC is rated to produce the 50-Ampere charging current only at peak performance, which will occur when its alternator winding are switched to a parallel wiring configuration and the engine speed in high. That means each winding only has to provide one-third of the current. This suggests that at the peak power output for battery charging, the corresponding current in each phase of the three alternator windings will be about 52.4-Amperes/3 = 17.5-Amperes.
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padrefigure
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:26 pm
- Location: Texas, Hill Country
Which ACR for Etec 200HP?
I did contact Blue Sea Systems and asked the question directly and received the following response.
"We size the ACR to the Alternator. For alternator 65 amps or less use the 7601 ACR or 7649 kit. 65 amps up to 120 amps use the 7610 or 7650 kit."
I think that you guys are saying that the relay will only see the battery charging current which will be less than 65A, so the 7649 kit seems to be the best choice.
Thanks for your help
"We size the ACR to the Alternator. For alternator 65 amps or less use the 7601 ACR or 7649 kit. 65 amps up to 120 amps use the 7610 or 7650 kit."
I think that you guys are saying that the relay will only see the battery charging current which will be less than 65A, so the 7649 kit seems to be the best choice.
Thanks for your help
Re: Manufacturer Recommended Relay Capacity for ACR
Thanks for passing on the advice from the maker of the automatic combiner relay.
I guess they are assuming that the current passing through their relay will not be more than the charging current from the outboard engine. I was considering that the presence of a second battery could cause current to flow into the battery connected by the relay from the more fully charged battery also in the circuit. The total current could be the sum of the current from the alternator and the current from the fully-charged battery, all going across the relay into the lesser-charged battery.
Are you getting a combiner that has the feature called starting isolation? That feature makes sure to drop out the relay when starting so the secondary battery does not have its voltage sagged down while it is trying to help crank the engine. I'd hook that up if available.
Also, it is unlikely you will ever see 50-Amperes of charging current from your outboard engine, no matter what brand. I don't think a single battery could accept that much charging current unless there were some unusual circumstances.
I guess they are assuming that the current passing through their relay will not be more than the charging current from the outboard engine. I was considering that the presence of a second battery could cause current to flow into the battery connected by the relay from the more fully charged battery also in the circuit. The total current could be the sum of the current from the alternator and the current from the fully-charged battery, all going across the relay into the lesser-charged battery.
Are you getting a combiner that has the feature called starting isolation? That feature makes sure to drop out the relay when starting so the secondary battery does not have its voltage sagged down while it is trying to help crank the engine. I'd hook that up if available.
Also, it is unlikely you will ever see 50-Amperes of charging current from your outboard engine, no matter what brand. I don't think a single battery could accept that much charging current unless there were some unusual circumstances.