LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Electrical and electronic topics for small boats
jimh
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LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:20 pm

Lightbulbs using light-emitting diodes (LEDs) are becoming increasingly popular for home and commercial room lighting because they are much more efficient at converting electrical energy into light, and also because manufacture of traditional incandescent lightbulbs had been restricted or banned. There has been a corresponding movement to employ LED lightbulbs in navigation lighting for boats. Replacing conventional incandescent miniature lightbulbs with an LED replacement bulb or replacing entire navigation lamp fixtures with new fixtures using LED illumination may not be the best possible choice, for two reasons: loss of heat from the lightbulb and possible interference with radio operation from voltage conversion circuits in the LED lamps.

While the generation of heat energy instead of light energy is considered wasteful in home and commercial room lighting with traditional incandescent lightbulbs, in boat navigation lamps the heat produced by a miniature incandescent lightbulb may be useful: the heat can drive out moisture and condensation in the lamp housing, possibly helping the lamp to work better. The electrical power consumption saved by conversion to LED is sometimes a consideration in boats which do not regularly recharge their batteries from their propulsion engine. If a sailboat is actually sailing around the world, underway 24-hours a day, and not running its engine for weeks at a time, the energy saved by LED lighting in the navigation lights might be a significant reduction in the load on the boat batteries, but for most recreational power boaters running a propulsion engine that can deliver 30-Amperes of charging current, saving a few milliAmperes in navigation lighting at night is not a big consideration.

LED lightbulbs are typically not able to run directly from a 12-Volt battery power source. Some sort of intervening electrical circuitry is needed to both reduce the voltage and regulate it so that variations in battery voltage won't have dramatic effects on the light output or damage the LED devices. Unless the voltage conversion and regulating circuitry is designed for optimum efficiency, the regulator circuit can consume as much electrical energy as the LED lightbulb. Power wasted in the regulator will also typically result in heat output. Creating high-efficiency DC-to-DC voltage convertors often includes use of rather high-frequency DC switching circuits. These circuits can generate electronic noise at radio frequencies, creating radio-frequency interference (RFI). Several boaters have reported experiencing radio interference with their boat's VHF Marine Band radio from LED navigation lighting products that were positioned close to the radio antenna.

With LED navigation lamps there seems to be two possibilities:

--high-efficiency voltage conversion which preserves energy savings and does not generate heat, but may be prone to create RFI, or

--low-efficiency voltage conversion which nullifies the energy savings, generates heat, but usually is completely free of any RFI generation.

If re-fitting an older navigation lamp fixture with a replacement LED lightbulb, the LED replacement is usually adapted to fit into the existing lamp socket, typically a miniature bayonet socket with two or three circuits. The LED replacement does not improve the reliability of the connection with the old lightbulb socket, which is often a source of failure. The replacement LED lightbulb must duplicate the light of the original incandescent lightbulb in four ways:

--the position of the light source relative to the socket should be the same

--the dispersion of the light from the source should be the same

--the intensity of the light should be the same, and

--the color spectra should be the same.

It may be possible to locate a replacement LED lightbulb that satisfies all of these requirements, that is, it saves power, does not generate RFI, and produces exactly the same intensity and spectra as the original lightbulb from the same position of light source and same dispersion. However, I don't think you automatically can get all six parameters in every LED replacement on the market.

A further consideration in navigation lighting is durability and longevity. In this regard, the traditional incandescent lightbulb has a good track record. Low-intensity 12-Volt incandescent lightbulbs can last for decades; their lifespan is really a reflection of the quality of manufacturing. Unfortunately, today there are many very low cost and very low quality incandescent 12-Volt lightbulbs on the market, and their useful life may not be as long as lightbulbs made several decades ago by American manufacturers. LED lightbulbs are often specified as having very long operational lifespans, but actually realizing those very long useful lives requires protecting the LED against its two biggest electrical enemies: too much voltage or too much heat. Reverse-polarity connection or over-voltage operation can often cause fatal damage to an LED lightbulb. Too much heat also shortens their lifespan. One often sees high-power LED lamps having significant heat sinks to radiate away heat from the LEDs.

fno
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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby fno » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:35 am

I am currently using two festoon bulbs in my red-green navigation lights now for about three years. Prior to that I could not go one year without one or both incandescent bulbs burning out. Once I figured out the polarity it was easy sailing. I even soldered the bulbs into the Perko light fixture as that was also a problem as the spring tension is not enough to overcome even the slightest corrosion.

LED lights are a boon to boaters in my opinion. It was unheard of to keep lights on overnight without a lot of battery or a generator. Now with LED bulbs and lights the consumption is so much less. Depends of course on how many lights are on the boat. All of this is anecdotal from my experiences with LED's both in scuba diving and boating.

Jimh--in the beginning of your article, you mention that LEDs are not desirable because they do not generate heat in the fixture. Later, you mention the need for heat sinks with "some" LEDs. [Actually I did not use the word "some" to describe LEDs that need heat sinks. I mentioned in the last paragraph of my article that the LEDs that need head sinks were "high power" LED lamps.--jimh] It is my understanding that only high intensity/high density LED lights require a heat sink to keep temps down which of course is coming from the bulb itself. Most boating bulbs are not that intense or powerful to require a heat sink and heat sinks do not protect the bulb from high ambient temperatures.

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:05 pm

Light-emitting diodes (LEDs) are more efficient at converting electrical energy into light, but they are not 100-percent efficient. Some electrical energy is lost to creation of heat. In LEDs that can create very high light levels, there will be a corresponding creation of higher heat. That heat must be taken away and dissipated. If not, the LED become too hot, and this leads to failure.

With incandescent lighting, if you have a 100-Watt bulb you are probably getting 95-Watts or more of heat. LEDs are more efficient. The exact efficiency is probably related to the particular method of manufacture and the light spectrum output, but, in general you get more light and less heat from the LED.

As I mentioned, and perhaps did not explain very well, the LEDs--the diodes themselves--usually are not made for direct connection to 12-Volt power, particularly the kind of 12-Volt power found on small boats, where the engine charging current can often force the battery voltage to more than 15-Volts during charging. The lifespan of an LED is very dependent on keeping its supply voltage regulated within certain bounds. Too much voltage and the diode burns out--sometimes instantaneously--and too little voltage and the light output drops off. The LED must have some sort of voltage protection, regulation, and usually voltage-conversion. The natural voltage across a conducting diode is only about 1-Volt. If the source is a 12-Volt battery, about 11-Volts has to be eliminated. If the voltage conversion is not done very efficiently, the voltage convertor will create heat and waste electrical energy.

Incandescent lightbulbs made in the past decade seem to have suffered greatly in quality and lifespan. They burn out much more often than the lightbulbs I knew in the 1960s. I think you can still buy quality incandescent lightbulbs, but you have to pay more for them and probably hunt to find them. The made-in-Asia lightbulbs of today sold in plastic bubble packages don't seem to hold up very well. Give me a G-E brand miniature lightbulb made in the 1950's and packaged in a little crinkle paper sleeve; it will last ten times longer.

Re your re-fit: by eliminating the old lightbulb socket you removed a primary point of failure from the lighting system. This probably accounts for improved reliability from your replacement LED lightbulbs.

Frank--have you checked to see if there is any RFI coming from the replacement LED lighbulbs? Have you measured the actual electrical current needed to operate them?

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby Hoosier » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:52 am

I guess I need some more coffee. I am using LEDs in my navigation lights and the ones I got, automotive direct replacement numbers for my old incandescent ones, are designed for a 12 VDC electrical system in an automotive application. Automotive circuits have the same instabilities as is found in boats, so why are they at higher risk?

I was looking at the automotive bulb section at Walmart and now there are a lot of LED replacements for automotive bulbs, except for headlights. The big unanswered question with LEDs is do they meet USCG visibility requirements for 1 and 2 mile range?

On a trip to Isle Royale National Park a couple of years ago the group got caught in pea soup fog where you couldn't see the next boat's lights at 200 yards. One boat had an LED work light that you could see through the fog even when you couldn't see the boat. Other boats' work lights were nowhere near as visible. My speculation is that the color spectrum of the LED was more able to penetrate the fog; the light intensity of the various work lights was about the same.
1978 Outrage V20 with 2004 Suzuki DF-115. 1992 23 Walkaround with two 2010 Yamaha F-150s.

jimh
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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:28 am

If you look at automotive OEM lighting solutions, I doubt you will find any of the car makers are still using lamp fixtures in which there are bayonet lightbulb sockets designed for incandescent miniature lightbulbs and in those sockets an LED equivalent lightbulb has been substituted. My 2011 automobile lighting is still mostly incandescent lightbulbs. Incandescent miniature lightbulbs have a good track record in automobile use. I just replaced one taillight lightbulb in my 1995 GMC truck; that was the first incandescent lightbulb to burn out in 20-years of driving, including a lot of night driving.

Concerning the radio-frequency interference, most automobiles have steel or aluminum bodies, and the radiation of RFI from an LED lightbulb's voltage conversion circuit would generally be contained better by the steel or aluminum car body surrounding it. Also, it is unusual in automotive applications that the radio antenna is located adjacent to a headlight or taillight lamp.

In marine applications, particularly in sailboats, it is very common for the VHF Marine Band radio antenna to be located immediately adjacent to a navigation lamp at the top of a mast. There are many anecdotal reports of significant RFI from the LED lightbulbs degrading radio reception. Here is one:

--https://www.morganscloud.com/2012/10/31/lopolight-beware-the-time-suck-of-complexity/

In addition, in marine radio one is often trying to receive signals much lower in strength than the signals received in automobiles from broadcast stations. In FM broadcast, it is common that the transmitted signal has an effective radiated power of more than 100,000-Watts and originates from a tower as tall as 1,000-feet. These broadcast signals are very much stronger than the signals from other boats we are trying to communicate with. RFI from LED lighting may not be noticeable in automobiles, but may be a significant problem on boats.

A further problem of replacement of an incandescent miniature lightbulb with an LED replacement is the concern for compliance with regulations. When a navigation lamp fixture is certified as meeting the required light emission, it is certified for both intensity and spectrum. If you change the lightbulb in an old fixture to LED from incandescent, the lamp is no longer certified. While one might say they are not too concerned with minutia of regulations, and a bit of variance from regulations of the chromaticity of the emitted light might be tolerable, the intensity should not be altered willy-nilly. While too little intensity is obviously not good, but too much intensity is not always good, either. If your boat is a small boat, it should not have navigation lights that are as visible as a giant commercial ship, that is, you ought not to be visible to other vessels at a 5-mile range if you are a 13-foot boat.

As for durability and long life, this remains to be established in the field. Many of the products I see which are intended to be direct replacements for incandescent lightbulbs seem to come from rather obscure makers, often available from rather obscure vendors, or sold at auction websites. While there are some more prominent brands sold in more normal channels of distribution, those products are not cheap. When an original incandescent lightbulb in a navigation lamp of my 1990 boat eventually burns out, I will probably replace it with a new $2 lightbulb instead of a $60 LED replacement lightbulb.

fno
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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby fno » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:37 pm

Jimh, I can most likely check the current draw. How would one go about testing the RFI? I will try both and report back.

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:07 pm

To check for RFI, try this procedure:

--tune your VHF Marine Radio to a weather channel that has an out-of-town weather broadcast station whose signal is at the threshold of being copyable;

--turn on the LED lamps;

--note if the operation of the LED lamps causes any consistent change in the signal-to-noise ratio of the weak signal in the radio receiver;

You need a signal that is at the margin of being copyable; a strong signal will not exhibit much change in the presence of RFI, unless the RFI is really very strong itself.

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby fno » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:32 am

Next time the cover is off, I will try this. I may not be able to measure the current without breaking the wires. My clamps are all rated for higher voltages and may not read the incidental current draw of an LED. My Fluke meter will but needs to be in series with the device and all my connections are soldered and sealed.

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:47 am

Perhaps you can just insert the ammeter at the switch that controls the lighting circuit. I suspect that the connection there won't be soldered.

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby fno » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:54 pm

Good idea! Now I have to put some thought into this...

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:12 pm

I came across a National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) accident investigation report regarding a railroad accident that has relevance in this discussion. You may now be wondering what connection a train accident report has to boating; the cause of the railroad accident was due to use of LED-illuminated trackside control signals. To simplify the findings, a recently installed new trackside signal used LED lamps. The light from this signal was more intense and brighter than the light from existing trackside signals nearby that used incandescent lamps. This unequal brightness caused over $3-million in damages due to a collision of two trains that resulted from the disparity in brightness between the signals. A train that was approaching a track control signal from an incandescent lamp with a RED (or STOP) signal failed to see the RED signal because the visibility of it was obscured or masked by the brighter light from a GREEN (or PROCEED) signal emanating from a newer LED lamp signal that was a mile farther away. The train engineer did not see the RED signal until very close to it, and could not stop his train in time to avoid colliding with another train ahead of him.

The train accident provides us with an inference that use of navigation lamps that are too bright could result in unintended consequences.

The NTSB report is available at

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acci ... AB1508.pdf

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Don McIntyre - MI
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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby Don McIntyre - MI » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:42 pm

Last year, I came across a story regarding one downside of changing out the old time incandescent bulb stop signals to the new LED models, though only of concern in the northern (read snow) regions. Seems that the LED's will not generate enough heat to keep the signals free from snow.

Solution was to install heaters. How's that energy savings working now?

Regards- Don

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby fno » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:17 pm

Don, most places don't get snow 6-8 months of the year like Michigan or Canada. And with this year as a guide Michigan will not be experiencing the amounts of snow that would be a problem for your lights. So the energy efficiency argument that you present is not applicable for many if not most of us in the boating world. For that matter, longer life and better visibility outweigh the lesser arguments presented so far. What I don't understand is the reluctance to accept and or challenge newer technologies on this site.

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby Jefecinco » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:35 am

FNO,

Many of us are pushing advanced middle age at 65 or so. I've had to finally admit I'm elderly at 75. We have a lot of time invested in our knowledge and well developed opinions. Change is not good. It challenges us at a time when our thinking equipment is both very well used and perhaps full to the brim. We're never too old to learn something just a bit resistant to the process at times. BTW, I like and use LED lights when appropriate to my situations.
Butch

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:53 am

fno wrote: What I don't understand is the reluctance to accept and or challenge newer technologies on this site.


I would hardly characterize the entire website as being reluctant to accept new technology. However, I am pleased that you recognize the website does prefer to review new technology with some scrutiny to see if it provides any real benefit. In the case of an LED lamp that costs $40 to replace an incandescent lamp that costs $2, I think proponents are perhaps guilty of some rationalization in their arguments in favor of the LED.

If I operated a enormous warehouse building with 5,000 light fixtures, and I could reduce electrical consumption by a factor of 90-percent by changing to LED lamps, it would be an attractive proposal, and made even more attractive by the imposition of a government policy that banned manufacture of the existing incandescent lightbulbs. But a similar case does not exist for navigation lamps and particularly for the retro-fitting of LED lightbulbs with the same bayonet socket as used by the lamp fixture with the incandescent lightbulb. I think this thread makes clear the arguments. The argument that the LED is newer technology and must be adopted is not compelling in this case.

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby conch » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:01 am

As Butch says we are never too old to learn new ideas. My neighbor builds things with LEDs and is always working on cooling problems and it is difficult to follow him sometimes. Cooling solutions for large stadium/billdoard screens must be difficult. He also makes a lot of flashlights that he says are very good,they are made at his factory in Denmark under the name WISE LED.
His biggest cooling concern right now is a fire at his plant in Gilleleje in mid January.
Chuck

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:15 am

I visited the WISE website. I see WISE are selling an LED flashlight for over $400 (€395). I am curious: will being hesitant to invest $400 in a flashlight (or to even endorse the idea of buying a $400 flashlight) make me subject to being called a LUDDITE?

I do own an LED flashlight, but it was only $19 and highly recommended on PANBO five years ago. I thought I better mention that so I don't expose myself to criticism as being hesitant or resistant to adopting new technology. I do, however, don't adopt new technology simply on the basis that it is new.

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby porthole » Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:46 pm

jimh wrote:...WISE are selling an LED flashlight for over $400 (€395).


And that's the cheap one! Costco LED flashlights, hard to beat.

The good thing about LED's for boats, now that they are accepted, is the price is dropping. I put LED navigation lamps on my 17 Outrage. They were just a little more [expensive] than the incandescent versions and are brighter, especially the bicolor bow light.
Last edited by porthole on Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
Thanks,
Duane
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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby fno » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:11 pm

Well said, Butch. Advancing years, wisdom, and patience are not mutually exclusive.

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Compliant SOS lights

Postby Hoosier » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:03 pm

This is "kinda" on subject since it has to do with LED lights at sea. I now have three LED lights, one built in my handheld DSC VHF radio, that flash SOS. The USCG has said that a "compliant" SOS light is an acceptable substitute for flares as a required distress signal. I also have an ancient Acer compliant SOS light that keeps me "legal". I must have over 20 expired flares in an ammo can that I can't get rid of. So, other than the ACER and this new Sirius light

http://www.amazon.com/Sirius-Signal-SOS-Distress-Light/dp/B0141VOX24

does anyone know of any others that meet the USCG requirements?
1978 Outrage V20 with 2004 Suzuki DF-115. 1992 23 Walkaround with two 2010 Yamaha F-150s.

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Re: LED Distress Signals

Postby jimh » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:08 pm

The topic was LED lightbulbs, not anything else. But since we have wandered far afield, including an analysis of the entire website's attitude toward innovation, we can certainly discuss the existence of any type-approved SOS signal lamps that can replace other optical distress signals.

By the way, when it comes to choosing between a rather dangerous pyrotechnic device and a bright LED signal, I would prefer the LED on the following basis; compared to pyrotechnic flares, the LED signal:

--is safer to use; you won't accidentally start a fire with the LED signal;

--has longer shelf life, but its battery will need to be changed, at less cost than replacing a set of out-of-date flares; also, no disposal problems;

--ought to have reasonably reliability; a USCG-accepted LED signal should meet some sort of reliability test requirement for the Coast Guard, and that is good enough for me. I suspect that many boaters have never even tried to ignite their optical distress flares and might have a less-than-100-percent success; most boaters can find an ON switch on an electrical device. On the other hand, flares have a track record for about 100-years of good reliability, and judging from the limited number of choices available in LED distress signals, meeting all the requirements must be harder than one might think. If it were simple to get an LED distress signal qualified by the USCG, you would expect there would be plenty of products to choose from; as HOOSIER's inquiry suggests, there are very few products available.

Hoosier
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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby Hoosier » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:31 pm

OK. My rationale for intruding on this thread was I'm talking about LED lights used for navigation,i.e. distress signals. But this really begs the question, how does the recreation boating community get the USCG to relax their "rules" to allow for modern devices, like high power LED flashlights, that transmit an SOS signal. The new Sirius one, even at $99, is a good deal since a set of flares runs about $45 EVERY four years. My $20 LED flashlight is much brighter that my "legal" ACER lantern style compliant light, and it's waterproof. Guess which one I'll use if I need to.....
1978 Outrage V20 with 2004 Suzuki DF-115. 1992 23 Walkaround with two 2010 Yamaha F-150s.

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby fno » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:19 am

Hoosier, I suspect that getting the USCG to relax any of their rules much more likely to happen than changing "the entire websites attitude towards innovation" as Jimh described my contribution (if you even want to call it that) to this topic. For what it's worth and this opinion applies to this thread. I have been cave diving for 20 some odd years and require the best and most reliable, and long lasting lighting devices known to man for underwater use. Early technology was halogen bulbs with gel cell batteries good for 2-4 hours. Later advances were expensive HID bulbs and the same gel cells used in alarm systems and emergency lights in buildings. Great stuff, long life, too bad they were fragile and expensive but they got the job done. The latest and greatest advancement is LED lights with lithium ion batteries for long lasting, bright, reliable lighting. So far nobody in the cave diving game has perished because of a light failure from any of the two latter technologies. Keep in mind that a light failure in an underwater cave is a life threatening event if not handled properly and you may die if you can't solve the problem. You are equipped with a primary light and two little backup lights tucked under your armpits. A plan B and C and D,E,and F if your buddy is similarly equipped. Naturally, cave divers are much like boaters and have cherished opinions that may or may not resemble fact and that is part of my opinionated diatribe that has offended some. Not my intent to offend but where on this site do we see regular endorsements of things that are good and useful? Critical analysis of new stuff is a good thing until it resembles crapping on the new to justify your choice of what got you through thirty years of boating and many weekends of maintenance or outright annoyance. For the record, I am fast approaching 54 years of age this month and albeit I may be a youngster amongst the many veterans on this site. I am resisting the changing of my moniker of "miserable bastard" to "miserable old bastard" just like some others here and look forward to making positive contributions to the website that help others and inform of new technologies that make boating both safer and more enjoyable, hopefully less expensive too.....

P.S. Good thing I had something to say about lights, this post might have been mistaken for a rant about getting old and cranky.....

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:48 am

I suspect it is difficult to get a flare to light underwater. They do burn nicely in air. If we want a distress signal that works underwater, I think our situation is more dire than the usual distress alerting circumstance when above the water.

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:59 am

fno wrote:...where on this site do we see regular endorsements of things that are good and useful?


Have you ever read my article about the GAM ELECTRONICS SS-2 antenna an ADAP-II mount? I believe it meets your criterion of containing an endorsement. Here is a pull quote:

I continue to strongly endorse this antenna installation for use on small boats.


As for the product meeting the two criteria of good and useful , I believe the GAM SS-2 and ADAP-II antenna and mount are good products--that is why I specifically endorse them. I don't think it reasonable to expect endorsement of bad products.

And I don't think we can really turn having an antenna for your radio into a debate about utility; it should be universally agreed that, if you have a radio, an antenna is useful.

Therefore, I believe I have met all criteria and can answer your three-part challenge. How many other citations of articles endorsing products that are good and useful are required to satisfy you? I think your charge is unfounded.

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby porthole » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:42 am

Now who's getting off track :-0

But since you went aside - I did take this article and research and put one of these GAM SS-2's on my 17 Outrage, which has since been transferred to my 21 Outrage and is currently feeding my Standard Horizon GX-2200, my radio for AIS use.


jimh wrote:
fno wrote:...where on this site do we see regular endorsements of things that are good and useful?


Have you ever read my article about the GAM ELECTRONICS SS-2 antenna an ADAP-II mount? I believe it meets your criterion of containing an endorsement. Here is a pull quote:

I continue to strongly endorse this antenna installation for use on small boats.


As for the product meeting the two criteria of good and useful , I believe the GAM SS-2 and ADAP-II antenna and mount are good products--that is why I specifically endorse them. I don't think it reasonable to expect endorsement of bad products.

And I don't think we can really turn having an antenna for your radio into a debate about utility; it should be universally agreed that, if you have a radio, an antenna is useful.

Therefore, I believe I have met all criteria and can answer your three-part challenge. How many other citations of articles endorsing products that are good and useful are required to satisfy you? I think your charge is unfounded.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby porthole » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:28 am

USCG notice for LED use in navigation lights. I tried posting the PDF but get an error for file to large - it is only 488KB?

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg545/alerts/1015.pdf

First place I saw LED navigation lights, before they were approved or readily available, was when the USCG 25' Safe boats showed up in our area.
The common observation at the time was that they were very bright and of different color temps then we were used to.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF

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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:42 pm

porthole wrote:... I did take this article and research and put one of these GAM SS-2's on my 17 Outrage...


Duane--I am very glad to hear you have had good results with the modern and innovative product I endorsed.

By the way, it is hard for me to endorse very many products because I really don't own that many products. The products I have endorsed I have bought with my own money at retail, and, if I am pleased with them and think they are good and I have used them for a while, I might endorse them.

I tend to hang on to good products I have bought for a long time. For example, I am typing this on a Macbook Pro laptop--made in 2008. I have taken it apart several times to fix little problems, have had it overhauled by Apple once, and it is running on its second hard drive, which I just replaced a few months ago. It is also running on its second CD ROM drive. (The first one died when I tried to insert a home-made CD-ROM disk, The Whaler Catalog Collection, that had a much thicker than normal disk medium--don't put them in a slot-loading CD-ROM optical drive if you want to avoid damage to the drive.) The next project will be to replace a noisy fan with bad bearings. I have a replacement, but I have not been in the right frame of mind to tear into the tiny little metric fasteners that hold this thing together and replace the fan.

I can't offer any endorsement of a newer laptop because this is the newest laptop that I own and use. Since this model has not been made in eight years, I actually doubt that endorsing it would be of much benefit, and it might put me at risk for being accused of being resistant to new products. I am resistant to spending a lot of money on stuff, which is why at this moment I don't have the newest Macbook Pro model--it costs over $2,000.

As for being resistant to modern products, innovation, and change, I offer in my defense my adoption of the electronic throttle and shift controls on my Evinrude E-TEC outboard engine. The engine itself is quite a modern and innovative product, and converting it to have electronic remote throttle and shift controls operating over a digital data network, well I have to think that is just about cutting edge technology in outboard engine controls. I have written extensively and enthusiastically about these controls. My experience with them has been extremely good. You might consider those several articles constitute another place where a reader of this website can go to find an endorsement of a modern and innovative product. But, hey, I don't want to too far off the topic.

fno
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:01 pm

Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby fno » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:59 pm

Jimh, you're a hoot!!! We should be doing this face to face with some fine beer and or another fine libation. I have to admit that you do dig into new and exciting things related to our world of boating as it interests you. If you recall, we have common interest in and have exchanged info on a few Simrad products. I have been looking for a winter project for my 210 Outrage. Some of the options are Bennett/Lenco trim tabs(opinion anyone?), a Simrad autopilot, maybe a radar dome (frivolous expense but fun to play with) Now I am feeling compelled to endorse something new and innovative just to keep up. Again, we are getting even further off topic but the dickering is fun so if anyone is interested in advising me how to spend my $$ chime in on the new subject created for that purpose. Best regards,FNO

jimh
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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:12 pm

Frank--I'd love to have a few India Pale Ales with you anytime. By the way, my new go-to winter beer of choice is TWO-HEARTED ALE from Bell's Brewery, of course, located in Michigan. The beer is great, and the allusion to a Hemingway short story also irresistible for me. I recommend you watch this presentation on TWO-HEARTED ALE. This is going to make you want to come to Michigan for some beer and some boating. The beer is getting wider distribution--even to southern California now and called "the definition of a world-class IPA".

I am just really pleased to find out you are reading the SMALL BOAT ELECTRICAL FORUM. Be sure to tell others about it. Sometimes I think it has become lost from the other forums because of the way the web forum navigation works.

fno
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:01 pm

Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby fno » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:39 pm

Jimh, I am familiar with Bells products. I did a project in Grand Rapids (beer mecca) and had the good fortune to sample the wares. I'll organize a trip up before summer makes us all busy.

porthole
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Location: LSD Lower Slower Delaware

Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby porthole » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:03 pm

Re-reading this thread I thought of a couple of items. The above mentioned Sirius Signal SOS distress light is only a replacement for flares when you also have the day time distress flag. That light kit comes with a daytime flag. The manufacturers rep (at the Atlantic City boat show) told me the Sirius distress light meets USCG certification because it does not have an on-off switch. The lens caps twists to activate the light. Their other distress products do have push button or slide type switches and do not meet USCG certification.

jimh wrote:I suspect it is difficult to get a flare to light underwater. They do burn nicely in air.


Many flares will burn underwater if fired off in the air. Magnesium in the flare allow that.

The biggest concern with pyrotechnics is disposal. The USCG around here never allows a pop-em-off day to dispose of expired devices. Our county hazardous materials center will not take them as well. They suggest soaking them in water and then disposing in the household trash.

That works for some items. I have tried soaking many items, and even after a week they may still work. I say may, as I have tried some 10-year-old flares and they were duds, especially the smaller pull-chain meteor-type flares.

I have many expired SOLAS approved pyrotechnics that would take years to be affected by soaking in water, if ever.
I'd sure like to pop off some of those parachute flares, not sure of the quart can size smoke signals though.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF

jimh
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Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby jimh » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:43 pm

ASIDE: when I was a kid in the late 1950's, my older brother was very much involved in amateur rocketry. Back then, rocketry was a new science and magazines like Popular Mechanics encouraged amateur rocketry. My brother and his teenaged friends built many rockets. My brother developed a design for a cardboard-tube solid-propellent small rocket, and made some tooling and fixtures for mass-production of these things. His after-school job was working for a local chemist, who helped him obtain the black-powder rocket fuel--remember, this was the 1950's not today.

In the attic of our house, my brother built an assembly line for making rockets, and taught me, then about ten-years-old, how to assembly them, including how to damp down the black power propellant into the rocket body tube placed on a mandrel and using a variety of wooded dowels as tampers. Of course, my mother knew nothing of this. She was always terrified and afraid to ask what was going on in the attic.

By the summer my brother (and I) had produced dozens and dozens of these rockets. While on vacation that year in the Leelanau Peninsula area, my brother, some other teenagers, and a few teenage girls, too, went to the beach on Lake Michigan one night, and proceeded to shoot off 50 or more of these rockets. No--I did not get to go with them; hey, you don't take your 10-year-old brother along on dates.

The next day we heard stories of how the Coast Guard was searching for a vessel in distress, apparently based on numerous sighting of distress rockets on Lake Michigan.

Years later my parents wanted to sell that house, and my mother begged by brother to get rid of "all that rocket chemical stuff" that was still in the attic. He finally complied, taking all the black powder, phosphorous, magnesium, and other dangerous chemicals out of the house to a big vacant field in an industrial area not far away. He and a friend dug a hole, put all the disposal material in it, set a very long trail of quick-fuse, and lit the fuse. The resulting enormous BANG brought the police from three precincts to the scene, with my brother and friend escaping undetected via the alleyways.

When my mother heard the explosion, she feared for the worst. She was very relieved when my brother returned unharmed, and perhaps even more shaken by the realization of what had been in the attic all those years.

porthole
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Location: LSD Lower Slower Delaware

Re: LED Lightbulbs for Navigation Lighting

Postby porthole » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:26 pm

I can relate to much of that, just using different "things". Also, I may have had a local gendarme visit our neighborhood.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF