Lowrance Outboard Pilot Hydraulic Pack

[porthole]

The Lowrance OUTBOARD PILOT was discussed some time ago on the old forum. I'm starting a new thread on the Lowrance Outboard Pilot Hydraulic Pack. As mentioned previously, this is a complete package, less a display device, with some value-added components. The pilot uses a simple ON-OFF button to start the pilot on a heading and uses a HDS Gen 2 or 3 for the rest of the navigation features. There is a course computer-controller in the package but I have no idea if this kit will work as a heading only feature without the HDS device.

There is a rebate currently available when purchased with a Lowrance multi-function display. I somewhat had plans to purchase a second HDS Gen3. The $300 rebate for a HDS Gen3 and Autopilot pack was to much to ignore. I got really good prices on the HDS 7 Gen3 and Outboard Pilot package which will go on the 1999 21 Outrage and the Hook 7 for 1997 17 Outrage II.

The kit has three boxes in one shipping box. Box 1 contains the hydraulic pump. Box 2 contains hydraulic hoses, fittings and hydraulic fluid. Box 3 contains the autopilot computer-controller, wiring, a NMEA 2000 starter kit, and POINT-1AP heading sensor-GNSS receiver.

Two concerns came up in the previous thread. The Point 1 supplied is required for the system to function correctly. The included Point 1 will allow RADAR overlay, but I received this from Lowrance tech, that it was not recommended to use with MARPA. (Wikipedia lists MARPA as "mini", I think the correct terminology is "manual".) Also, check this link for some fun stuff (MARPA rant on Panbo)

The other concern was the wiring color for the supplied ON-OFF switch. The wires are colored with no reference to polarity. The new wiring diagram now states "Note: The connection is color independent". The asterisk and notation "*Point-1 only" was also removed.

[porthole]

All the electrical items and extra hydraulic fittings.



The hydraulic stuff

[porthole]

Really looking forward to installing and using this. I've installed "Iron Mikes" in my two previous bigger boats, and in two other boats I worked on. Four different types of kits and all rather costly.

The 21 Outrage tends to wobble around a bit at slower speeds and at higher speeds, although fairly smooth, is just something I have not gotten used to after the steady tracking of bigger twin engine boats or single engine and deep keel boats.

I have used boats without rudder feedback sensors and do not see that as a drawback on the newer pilots with high speed electronics. Older systems required heading and rudder sensors as well as a gyro or rate of turn sensors to function properly. Non rudder feedback pilots have been around for awhile. The first one I know of we sea trialed on a 20 something outboard boat. That pilot would even maintain a heading when in reverse.

Now we just need some weather.

[porthole]

First setback and all I did so far was look at the parts and my helm. The hose fitting supplied are "T'd" in the wrong direction.
Supplied fittings are of this type.

The 1/4-inch-NPT threads into the helm. The existing steering hose would attach to the bottom 3/8-inch-tube connection.
This fitting forces the autopilot pump hose to go straight out of the helm. I have only about an inch of space between the helm and the bulkhead.



I found these fittings on-line. I think they will work. Although I plan on hitting up some of our local marine outfitters and a Parker Hose outlet to see if I can get 3/8-inch-tube right-angle fittings put on the hoses.



These smaller boats sure a challenge at times when you are used to bigger inboard boats.

[StormWarning]

I just installed a Raymarine autopilot a month ago. Autopilot itself was really easy. Getting all the right fittings and hoses was another story. SeaStar makes a add a helm kit that has lots of fittings in it and hose. I used this as I needed most all of the fittings in the kit and separate the fittings were very expensive. a T was like $30.

[porthole]

Seastar sells a three-pack of the fittings I need, which are already ordered. I need to pick up a 2-inch-long 1/4-inch pipe and elbow in order to get enough clearance to run the clear return line.

I installed just the pump today--it is tight on a 21-footer.

[porthole]

Lowrance - no commissioning instructions supplied with the kit, just basic hardware install instructions.
And the included instructions are slightly different from the online version.

Lowrance outboard auto pilot installation instructions

You have to go to youtube to get the info on how to set up the multi-function display.

Lowrance Outboard auto pilot commissioning

The instructions also include installing a RC-42N rate compass, which is not part of the kit.

[porthole]

For those following along, the necessary hydraulic fittings were about $22 from [an on-line seller].

TELEFLEX / SEASTAR MARINE HF5536 Hydraulic Steering Tee 3/8" T Ends - 1/4" NPT

[porthole]

Adding a second multi-function display adds some cables. Adding the autopilot definitely adds some cables.





New tees installed and hoses connected

[jimh]

Based on some recent comments from a very well informed Norwegian angler, the POINT-1 heading sensor and the POINT-1AP heading sensor supplied with the Lowrance Outboard Pilot are not identical. The POINT-1AP has different software (less dampening) in order to better control the NAC-1 auto pilot computer. The POINT-1 (not AP) heading data is processed differently (more dampening) for the purpose of keeping a course-up chart plotter display orientation stabilized. There does not appear to be any distinguishing physical markings on the devices, so perhaps one ought to mark or indicate their POINT-1AP that came with the Lowrance OUTBOARD PILOT kit in order to prevent it becoming confused with other POINT-1 (not AP) devices.

[porthole]

Re the POINT-1 compared to POINT-1AP: my back-and-forth with Lowrance only yielded that the Point 1-AP was sufficient for use as an external GPS receiver, was designed specifically for the OUTBOARD PILOT kit, and, although it could also be used for RADAR overlay, it was not suitable for MARPA use.

The Point 1 included in my kit is labeled properly.



Lowrance has announced a new [compass] sensor, I think to replace the RC42 sensor. [Yes--There is already a thread going-on about the PRECISION-9 in SMALL BOAT ELECTRICAL. Please post your comments about the PRECISION-9 in that thread.--jimh]

I think I will just wait and see how the [OUTBOARD PILOT with POINT-1AP] system works. Don't really think I need the precision of [the more expensive heading sensor].

[jimh]

Thanks for the illustration of a clearly visually identified POINT-1AP. When you do a NMEA-2000 device listing, what name does the POINT-1AP show as its network identity?

I am interested to hear your comments on the actual operation of the system. For the price of under $1,000 the OUTBOARD PILOT cannot be beat--that is, if it works well in controlling a 20-foot to 25-foot boat with a big outboard engine.

It would seem a bit strange to buy a more sophisticated heading sensor whose price is equal to about 60-percent of the total OUTBOARD PILOT system cost--and you already get one in the OUTBOARD PILOT.

[porthole]

When you do a NMEA-2000 device listing, what name does the POINT-1AP show as its network identity?

All menu items show the Point-1AP

It would seem a bit strange to buy a more sophisticated heading sensor whose price is equal to about 60-percent of the total OUTBOARD PILOT system cost--and you already get one in the OUTBOARD PILOT.

It does. I have run several boats with this type of virtual rudder feedback interface and they work pretty good. Over $600 for a rate-of-turn and [improved compass] for a 21 footer may be just a tad much.

[Back to] the commissioning: no commissioning or bleeding instructions are included, and I have two different sets of installation instructions. Still not sure I got all the air out, bit a problem with the hoses for the pump exiting the helm vertically. The link [above] for video commissioning did not match my software.

I found this video that was very close to my installation.

Commissioning a Lowrance Outboard Autopilot

The big red button is the standby - auto button, it does not light up. The autopilot will be switched by the far right rocker. Really don't need it powered up all the time.



One of two autopilot screens



Power steering mode




Look close at the top of this screen and you can see the autopilot is in POWER STEERING mode, on a course of 150-degrees-magnetic. With two HDS units being networked, they both display the auto pilot data when active:

[jimh]

All menu items show the Point-1AP

What I am trying to elicit from you is what the NMEA-2000 device listing shows. How does the device list show the POINT-1AP name?

[porthole]

All menu items show the Point-1AP

What I am trying to elicit from you is what the NMEA-2000 device listing shows. How does the device list show the POINT-1AP name?

Not sure I understand what specifically you are asking. But, on several different screens under multiple menu items for example, Compass, position, all items have a checkmark in the labeled Point-1AP

These are screen shots from my iPad, I left one of the HDS's turned on.

GPS menu



Under the Vessel menu the first 3 items are checked off for the Point-1AP.
The attitude roll sub menu has the NAC-1 selected.




This screen shows the Point-1AP being used for the GPS.



Device list:

[jimh]

Perfect. Thanks for showing the screen captures.

It should be very obvious if the heading sensor is a POINT-1 or a POINT-1AP, based on the many places it is identified in the configuration screens.

[porthole]

I found this video that was very close to my installation.

Commissioning a Lowrance Outboard Autopilot


There are some differences from what is on the video to what I actually experienced.
Starting at 1:10 is the calibration sequence for the virtual rudder feedback.

In the video the tech centers the wheel and then taps next to have the pump start turning the outboard to starboard. The system asks if the outboard turns to which he taps no. Each time he does this the system adds a bit more voltage to the pump
He does this several times until he decides the outboard is actually turning enough to satisfy the system.

In my reality I tapped next to start, the OB moved slightly, tapped no, the OB turned to port slightly, tapped no, moves to starboard a bit, tap no it moves back to port and so so on; no, moves starboard, no, moves port, etc. I did this several times until I had what I thought was enough movement.

At 1:50 [in the presentation] the system asks to hold the turn to port button down until the outboard moves all the way to port. On my HDS I also had the option to use the plus button, which was easier to keep a steady movement. I had to do this several times.

It appears that the system is using only time [needed by the pump to move the outboard from extreme Port to extreme Starboard] to calibrate the return to center. The first time I held the button for a second or two past the stop, and when it returned to center it went a second or two past center. Not realizing this I went through the sequence a second time but did not hold the button as long. Same result. I did it a third time and released the button as soon as the motor reached the stop and the return was to center.

[jimh]

I watched the presentation created by Lowrance on the commissioning of the OUTBOARD PILOT. I notice in this presentation the heading sensor identification is seen on various screens of the chart plotter display as "POINT-1". I presume that at the time this presentation was recorded, there must not have been a special POINT-1AP model for the OUTBOARD PILOT.

Also, I added some information about the NMEA-2000 PGNs associated with heading sensor output to my article on PGN data.

[porthole]

Here are two observations:

Remote access to the HDS is available using the Lowrance GoFree app. Just about anything you can do with HDS menu keys can be done with an iPad and wifi access—including turning the HDS off, but for obvious reasons, the app does not give you turn back on capabilities. Autopilot remote control is locked out. On my iPad when I bring up the power button menu (momentary press), the screen is locked, with a padlock icon.


I thought I might have some problems bleeding the steering system, especially because the steering hoses from the pump go up above the helm and then back down, the loop is probably 8-inches above the helm. While playing around in the driveway I was doing a momentary tap of the left and right steer buttons in the power steer mode. Even the shortest tap resulted in the outboard turning some with no hesitation.

[porthole]

I finally got to give the Outboard Pilot a bit of a try last night. Didn't do much other then try the course hold, course 1 and 10 degree change and the U-turn.

All worked well. My boat seems to be a bit squirrely at low speeds in shallow water, takes lots of wheel work. With the pilot activated the helm work is much easier, although the pump is constantly running trying to keep the boat straight. The few times I managed to get up on plane the pilot did a nice job running between the channel markers.

The low speed use should make it a bit more comfortable as well doing all the adjustments automatically.

I have not calibrated the system yet, have to wait for a nice day with a bit more water.

[porthole]

I have used the LOWRANCE OUTBOARD PILOT HYDRAULIC PACK a half-dozen times now. I am pleased with it, especially with the pricing and ease of installing. Yesterday I gave it a good test. The weather guessers were wrong again! Five-knot breeze and 1 to 2-foot waves were more like 15 to 20-knots and a 3 to 5-foot white capped sea with a short set. I would guess the set was 20 to 30-feet for the most part, based on the length of the boat.

If you want to navigate using a cursor location (waypoints would be similar), you have to;
--pick the location on the chart (requiring multiple steps)
--select menu
--select go to curser
--engage autopilot (yes or no)
--another popup asking to confirm (yes or no)
--another popup for the actual AP control

One time during the day the OUTBOARD PILOT seemed a bit confused. I was using the auto-pilot function to get back to a lump I was fishing. When I hit the start button, then OK the course change, the OUTBOARD PILOT would steer in the opposite direction. For some reason, each time [the OUTBOARD PILOT] took a new heading towards the beach.

I switched off the power to the [OUTBOARD PILOT] and the network, restarted them, and all seemed good.

When you arrive at your waypoint the HDS will display a "stop or continue navigating" choice. Selecting stop will stop navigating but leave the OUTBOARD PILOT engaged in a heading mode, so the big red button has to be pressed to go into standby (or the menu choice standby)

I have a route following my desired path through river towards my ramp. Selecting the route somewhere other then the ends does not allow you to skip waypoints until after the navigating has started. So that could mean starting to navigate with the boat making a u-turn.

[BELOW is a link to a] recording, which a little shaky. Each clip was cut when I dropped the phone; four clips are linked.

The first-half of the recording where the shoreline visible off port side is heading down wind at [a boat speed of] 20-knot average. Because of the set distance I still had some pounding. The following sea didn't do much to the boat and the OUTBOARD PILOT kept a good straight line.

Heading back to the inlet was fun. [Boat speed 5 to 7-nautical-miles-per-hour] at best. The seas on the port bow would occasionally turn the boat 30 to 40-degrees [off course]. Each time the OUTBOARD PILOT put me back on course within a few seconds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVJDWpV9yy0&feature=youtu.be

And the motto "red sky at night, sailor's delight" was wrong. [The sky at sunset] the night before:

[jimh]

Thanks for the comments on the performance of the Lowrance OUTBOARD PILOT HYDRAULIC PACK in operation.

[porthole]

Another month, another update.
I have had the boat out probably another dozen times. Considering the cost for the outboard pilot is under $1000 (under $900 for my purchase) the kit is an excellent upgrade, especially if you are an open water boater. Of course this value applies if you already have a Lowrance MFD, as the MFD is the actual user control for the outboard pilot. Note that there is one mechanical control, a 1" red button on the dash that will set the AP into a heading mode or standby if in any of the available auto modes.

The auto pilot does a pretty good job of keeping the boat on a heading or navigating to a way point. I have not been able to use the AP for a route navigation though, yet.

Accuracy is good, but compared to my previous auto pilots not as good as it could be. One of my boats had a Raytheon auto pilot receiving navigation information from a Northstar 9xx GPS. The AP on that boat was arrow straight and would literally steer the boat directly over the waypoint. I ran wreck SCUBA diving charters for a number of years and many of my spots were small pieces, it was always neat to watch the boat steer right over the wreck.

The Lowrance outboard pilot seems to stop navigating somewhere near the waypoint, almost always off to the starboard side. Haven't figured out how far off yet as on open water I have nothing to judge the distance with.

A 'dodge' button would be a welcome addition. If another vessel is on your track line you can just grab the wheel and steer around it, but the more you attempt to steer around the other vessel the more the pilot tries to bring you back on your track line. If you have vessel directly in your path you have to go into standby. Using the AP to continue your navigation is not as simple as tapping the auto pilot control screen's 'navigation' menu choice.

To continue navigation with the AP.
Tao the chart to make it the active screen
Tap menu
Tap navigation
Tap restart
Tap AP control to make it the active screen
Tap navigation

And, the AP may or may not activate on navigate to your waypoint.

Some idiosyncrasies, although both HDS Gen3's are connected to the network, they don't always work as I would expect.
Bringing up a waypoint on HDS #1, selecting 'go to', 'use auto pilot', 'confirm course change', will bring up the AP control panel, on both HDS #1 and HDS #2, but the control panel is not active on the second HDS. The navigation track line also does not display on the second HDS.
Performing the same actions on HDS #2 brings up AP control panels on both HDS displays and both are active.

There are several pre-defined patterns that are a available. U-turn, S- turns, zip zag, square etc. One pattern not available (that I have had on other auto pilots) is the ability to have the AP steer the boat around a way point, keeping a set distance circle around the way point despite wind and tide effects.

Another function of the outboard pilot kit is power steering. A mechanical knob with compass heading would be a nice upgrade. I've had the mechanical knob on several boats and it is a useful feature.

Next test will be a MOB, man overboard return. My previous pilots, when MOB is activated the AP would perform the classic Williamson turn and bring the boat back to the MOB activation waypoint.

[Acseatsri]

Long term update:
I'm on my second season with the unit now and have a few 100-mile offshore runs, most running in mild long-duration swells in otherwise flat-ass calm conditions. Although somewhat adequate, the unit tends to wander off-course over 10 degrees before making a correction, then does a turn sharp enough to nearly throw people off their feet. I've played with the steering response setting to no avail, as if I crank the response all the way up, the boat constantly does S-turns, lower settings result in the sudden turns which try to toss people out of the boat. I've run many other boats with A/P that run straight and true without the jarring course corrections that this does.

I've also found that just letting it hold a heading rather than running a route results in a somewhat less ziggy path, although some input is required to keep it on course because of cross currents vs steering to a waypoint. Again, it still wanders about 10-20 degrees sometimes before making a hair-pin correction. When this happens, I find that when the display is set for heading up, the displayed course is running up the screen at a 30 degree angle and the radar overlay is off a like amount, impossible to do at almost 30 miles per hour with cross-currents. Leads me to believe either the point1 heading sensor is defective or inadequate.

After speaking with Lowrance technical support, they tell me that the heading sensor that came with the unit isn't really adequate for ocean use and that I need to spend another $650 on their Precision-9 sensor to stop the zig-zagging, which now puts the cost at about $1600 instead of about $900, a sum high enough to probably buy a unit adequate for running in ocean waves. I wonder how many people buy an autopilot to run on lakes?

[Acseatsri]

Re Precision-9 heading sensor:

I ordered and installed the new [Precision-9] heading sensor today, as the autopilot is pretty much useless—at best—in big swells with the supplied [POINT-1 AP] heading sensor and, at worst, can otherwise be dangerous when it makes hairpin turns and results in people being thrown from the boat.

[Substitution of the PRECISION-9 heading sensor in place of the POINT-1 AP heading sensor] definitely dramatically improved the tracking, especially when crossing bigger waves at an angle, which was the condition that resulted in hairpin turns. I don't believe the Point-1 AP is defective, but is just not suitable for use in ocean waves which result in pitch and roll, exactly what the tech from Lowrance said. Nothing in the documentation says anything about this, nor does it say anything about having to buy another $600 accessory to make it work properly.

If you plan on adding an autopilot, figure on spending about $1600 and not the $1000 advertised price unless you plan on using it in flat-calm conditions or you have a location where you can mount it low and near the centerline of the keel and still have an unobstructed view of the sky. At this price point, there are other competitors in this space.

I wonder how many people buy an autopilot to use on lakes?

The real problem is that the combined GPS receiver and heading sensor [in the POINT-1 AP device] compete for totally different mounting criteria. On my 23 Walkaround the only good mounting location for the GPS receiver to see the sky is mounted on the dashboard roughly 5-feet above the waterline. The heading sensor requires just the opposite location, as close to the waterline and centerline of the keel as is possible to negate wildly rocking the compass side to side. The hairpin turns add to the rocking motion and further confuse the sensor.

[jimh]

I agree with your observation regarding the inherent conflict in creating a device that contains both a GNSS receiver and a heading sensor in a single assembly. As you point out, mounting such a combined device cannot serve both functions equally well. I think NAVICO must have had in mind the use of the POINT-1 AP on boats with very low freeboard and for the device to be mounted at the transom and close to centerline. That is a typical location for a bass boat.

I have begun to wonder if NAVICO created a problematic product in the POINT-1. I read two angler-oriented forums on boat electronics, and there is no end to the ceaseless threads about installation, calibration, and use of the POINT-1. I suspect that calls to NAVICO asking for technical support on the POINT-1 must be high, if the number of topics in bass-boat forums is any indication of the problems that occur in use.

The PRECISION-9 sensor was the topic of its own discussion thread. See

Lowrance PRECISION-9 Heading Sensor
http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=598

[porthole]

Re Precision-9 heading sensor:

[Substitution of the PRECISION-9 heading sensor in place of the POINT-1 AP heading sensor] definitely dramatically improved the tracking, especially when crossing bigger waves at an angle, which was the condition that resulted in hairpin turns. I don't believe the Point-1 AP is defective, but is just not suitable for use in ocean waves which result in pitch and roll, exactly what the tech from Lowrance said.

Were you able to keep the Point 1 on the network for the GPS receiver capabilities?
The Point 1 sensor is a desirable feature for me so as to be able to have the GPS antenna have an un-obstructed view above the T-top for the MFD's.

With your P-9, can you feel the course changes happening more in real time as opposed to catching up? I can recall on my old Raytheon pilot the Ap making course changes before I would feel or see the required change.

I have also played with the sensitivity on the Lowrance AP, of the 5 levels I notice very little difference in steering control.

I have not had the same hard course corrections you have experienced. For the most part the corrections seem to be accurate and subtle, even when correcting after a 30+ degree course changes due to waves. Although, as I have mentioned above, this AP is not as accurate as previous pilots I have used.
My first Raytheon pilot was a simple kit; hydraulic pump, course computer, fluxgate compass, dash mounted control unit and I don't remember if it required a rudder sensor and. It was an arrow straight pilot that did not require a gyro or rate of turn sensor, although those were both options.

We have also installed a AP kit, and I just can't remember the brand, that was initially designed for the salmon fisheries on the west coast. Apparently those fisherman wanted to be able to maintain a course while in reverse. This kit had no input for a rudder sensor. This AP would keep the boat straight, operating in all conditions, including reverse. It is also capable of keeping a course around a waypoint with excellent accuracy. The boat we installed this on is a USCG 41UTB with rudders that were not vertical. So course control was an even bigger challenge.

[Acseatsri]

Re keeping the Point-1 as the GPS receiver: [there will be] no problem, as you can pick the data sources individually on each display. I'm not using the heading sensor in the Point-1 at all, but I'm using its GPS receiver for both displays.

The autopilot with the [PRECISION-9 heading sensor] is now much more responsive. Before [installation of] the [PRECISION-9 heading sensor] I couldn't use the [Lowrance Outboard Pilot] auto-pilot to go to a waypoint without wildly zig-zagging. [Before, when] using [the Lowrance Outboard Pilot] to hold a heading it didn't perform as badly. Now [in using the Lowrance Outboard Pilot auto-pilot in conjunction with the PRECISION-9] [the performance] is better [when going] to a point or the cursor, as [the boat under auto-pilot controls] seems to toe the line very accurately.