Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby Willie B » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:03 pm

Hi there. I’m trying to trace wood backing plates for clear positions on my Boston Whaler boat refit [on a hull initially identified as a 1994 Outrage 22 but later possibly identified as a 1994 21 Outrage but having an appearance that does not match the Boston Whaler documentation].

The cleats were previously mounted on deck, and I have noticed that a lot of Boston Whaler boats have them mounted on the [inwhale] under the gunwale.

[Seeks] any information on [the location of cleats and the location of wood backing plates].

I have researched the usual websites, and all the drawings of my boat [have] been removed.

Regards

User avatar
Phil T
Posts: 976
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:08 pm
Location: Was Maine, now Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Outrage 22 1994 Wood Location for cleats

Postby Phil T » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:20 pm

Willie -

I presume you mean a 1994 Outrage 21 since there was only a Outrage 21 and Outrage 24 model that year.

Here is a photo from the catalog showing the stern of the Outrage 21. I see the cleats on the top of the cap. If there is no wood, you should add aluminum backing plates. They should be through bolted.

1994outrage212.jpg
1994outrage212.jpg (29.68 KiB) Viewed 5000 times


Here is the top view showing all the cleat locations

94or21plan2.jpg
94or21plan2.jpg (93.03 KiB) Viewed 4999 times
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Outrage 22 1994 Wood Location for cleats

Postby Willie B » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:24 pm

Thanks Phil T,

Yes it probably is a Outrage 21, however the gunwales look different to mine.

I have done a tap test. There seems to be structure around the bulkhead just forward of the transom.

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Outrage 22 1994 Wood Location for cleats

Postby Willie B » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:34 pm

image1a.jpg
Fig. 1.
image1a.jpg (15.56 KiB) Viewed 4392 times


image2a.jpg
Fig. 2.
image2a.jpg (15.24 KiB) Viewed 4391 times

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby jimh » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:28 pm

On classic Boston Whaler Outrage 22 notched transom boats in production in the 1980’s and into c.1992, the stern cleats are mounted to the inwhale, and a hawsepipe on the gunwale allows mooring lines to be lead to the cleats.

Distinguishing between a classic Outrage 22 boat and a c.1994 Outrage 21 ought to be able to be done based on more than just the location of the stern cleats.

User avatar
Phil T
Posts: 976
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:08 pm
Location: Was Maine, now Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby Phil T » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:08 pm

W--if the boat is actually a 1994, I think,based on the splashwell design and the lifting eye, you may have a Guardian 22. It was a commercial-military version based on the Outrage 22 and was in production long after the recreational version ceased to be produced.
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby Willie B » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:23 pm

Ok thanks. So can the cleats be mounted on the side wall?

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby jimh » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:37 pm

Phil—good deduction.

In the images above a lifting eye seems to appear on the hull, forward from the stern cleat and just aft of the rail base. A lifting eye would be appropriate on a military-use hull.

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby Willie B » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:31 am

There were four lifting eyes added. They were a retro fit as the boat was tender to a super yacht. (Talitha G)

I have the serial number and the boat was built in 1993, but launched in 1994.

I believe the super yacht ordered the boat from Whaler.

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby Willie B » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:35 am

Also the deck layout is different to the plans of the Outrage 21 deck plan above.

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby jimh » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:53 am

The lifting eye looks like rather fancy stainless steel, appropriate for a yacht.

Show us a wider view of the hull to aid identification.

User avatar
Phil T
Posts: 976
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:08 pm
Location: Was Maine, now Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby Phil T » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:38 pm

image3a.jpg
Fig. 3.
image3a.jpg (16.76 KiB) Viewed 4386 times

image4a.jpg
Fig. 4
image4a.jpg (14.17 KiB) Viewed 4386 times

image5a.jpg
Fig. 5
image5a.jpg (19.61 KiB) Viewed 4386 times
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby Willie B » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:26 am

Any feedback on upwall cleat positions?

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby jimh » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:00 pm

That boat looks more like a classic Outrage V-20 hull, and not a 22-foot hull.

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby jimh » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:35 pm

Read about the Outrage V-20 in the REFERENCE section:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/V20Outrage/

There are many pictures of the V-20.

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby Willie B » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:49 am

Thanks Jimh, I don’t think it’s a V-20 as the hull is from 1994 and the V-20 is older.

I still haven’t managed to find the answer to my original question of cleat positions.

User avatar
Phil T
Posts: 976
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:08 pm
Location: Was Maine, now Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby Phil T » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:44 pm

I recall:
--the gunwale cap where the cleats are currently located consists of fiberglass mat with encapsulated plywood to serve as a backing material.
--the gunwale cap is screwed down to the gunnel and/or L brackets are used.

The classic Outrage 18 noats that have cleats mounted to the topside have backing material in that location. I don't know if that backing material is present in your hull. Without it, adding a cleat would not be recommended.

What is the reasoning for moving the existing cleats?
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby Willie B » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:41 pm

Hi there. Just to enquire about my previous thread. I have been trying to trace what Outrage I have. I was informed by the people on here that my boat was not a Outrage 22. However I noticed a Outrage 22 in Italy today. I checked the serial number at the boat was launched in 1992, one year before mine. Could it be that mine is a 22?

User avatar
Phil T
Posts: 976
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:08 pm
Location: Was Maine, now Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby Phil T » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:42 pm

The key items that make a boat a V-22 is the angle of the keel at the transom. It is a shallow or wide V.

See http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/V20Outrage/images/transomEven640x330.jpg

In a V-22, The bow steps are added on and have storage area.

See http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/V20Outrage/images/OutrageV20Foredeck768x570.jpg

In a Outrage 22 the keel V is steeper and the bow steps are part of the mould and do not have storage areas.

Your photos show the hull to be an Outrage 22 hull. It may not have all the features of the standard Outrage 22. Also note, international sales had different options/engines that were dealer and country specific.

Boston Whaler's Commercial Products Division(CPD) sold recreational hulls with modifications as a commercial model. Once the recreation version ceased production, the mold was transferred to CPD who continued to produce and sell the commercial model for many more years.

It is possible your boat is a Guardian 22.

I would leave the cleats as they are.
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby Willie B » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:27 am

The hull at the back is a deep V. The bow section has moulded sections instead of lockers. Also the boat had all the seats taken out behind the console seat. I have left the cleats as they are.

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby jimh » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:52 pm

Since you can SEE your own boat and you can see the OUTRAGE V-20 boat images in the REFERENCE section article I wrote and gave you a hyperlink, it should be easy for you to deduce if the boat you have is a V-20 or an OUTRAGE 22. Also, you can measure the length of the hull of your boat, and this dimension will give clear evidence about the model.

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Outrage 22 Wood Location Diagram and Cleat Location

Postby jimh » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:07 am

The more recently posted images show that lockers in the bow appear to be molded into the hull. That disqualifies the V-20 as a possible model for this hull. Most OUTRAGE 22 hulls had a narrow sink-type splashwell. Only OUTRAGE 22 boats molded after c.1990 have the full width engine splashwell. In one of the images above the engine splashwell seems to be somewhat different, not quite like either OUTRAGE 22 splashwells. The rectangular deck opening plates in the aft cockpit are not typical of an OUTRAGE 22. The large metal deck plate hatch forward of the center console is typical of a GUARDIAN 22. Phil's deduction that the boat may have been ordered as a GUARDIAN 22 or some variant from the Boston Whaler Commercial and Government Products division is likely correct.

It should be a simple matter to find the hull identification number (HIN) and see the manufacturer identity code (MIC). If the MIC is WCG this will identify the boat as a commercial hull. For help with interpretation of the HIN see the lengthy and detailed explanation of the HIN in the FAQ.

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby jimh » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:17 am

There are many images of a Boston Whaler Commercial and Government Products GUARDIAN 22 boat shown in CETACEA. See CETACEA pages 10 and 12. See

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage10.html

and

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage12.html

The engine splashwell configuration for a GUARDIAN 22 is seen here:

Image

and here:

Image

Due to the similarity of the engine splashwell in the boat under discussion and the GUARDIAN 22 boat shown in the CETACEA pages, I am now quite sure the boat under discussion is a GUARDIAN 22 or some similar variant ordered from Boston Whaler Commercial and Government Products, and not an OUTRAGE 22, an OUTRAGE 21, or an OUTRAGE V-20 as mentioned in earlier speculation in this discussion.

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby Willie B » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:59 am

[What is] the difference between the Guardian 22 and the Outrage 22?

Is just a commercial vessel?

On another note the deck has delaminated and I'm replacing the deck. I'm not going to have the BOWMAR watertight hatch. I will have a locker instead. Also I'm going to have a aft locker.

[I want to see] photos of deck layouts of OUTRAGE 22 and the GUARDIAN 22.

Regards

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:48 am

Willie B wrote:[What is] the difference between the Guardian 22 and the Outrage 22?


Please see the earlier reply in this same thread:

http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3603&p=23568#p20409

Boston Whaler boats made for commercial, government, or work-boat use generally have hull laminates with thicker fiberglass layers, have internal reinforcements made from aluminum, and have deck access hatches that are more rugged, heavier, and gasketed to be watertight, such as the large BOWMAR hatch you mention on your boat. As a result the dry hull weight will typically be greater than a similar hull made for recreational boat use. The rub rails on these boats are often substantially different from the rub rails used on recreational boats with similar hull designs.

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:50 am

Willie B wrote:[I want to see] photos of deck layouts of OUTRAGE 22 and the GUARDIAN 22.


For photographs of the GUARDIAN 22 please see the two CETACEA pages that were mentioned earlier in this thread in the reply at

http://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3603&p=23575#p21853

Two photographs from those articles were already posted as in-line images in this thread, so I am surprised you have not already seen them. There are many more photographs in the CETACEA article that was mentioned earlier, and they show details of the deck very well. I encourage you to follow the earlier reply and its hyperlink to see those photographs. The purpose of including hyperlinked text to the articles that showed the GUARDIAN 22 was to make it simple for you to find that information. Just click on the hyperlinked text to see the information you desire.

A nice drawing of the cockpit and deck of an OUTRAGE 22 is shown in the Owner's Manual. See my reproduction of the Owner's Manual in HTML at

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/manual18-25/operations.html

There you will find this drawing:

Image

The CALLOUTS are identified in the Owner's Manual. Follow the link above to see them.

To see more images of Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 22 boats from CONTINUOUSWAVE, try this search LINK. Use the IMAGES tab to see the image search results. You will find all the images of the Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 22 on this website. There are many images, and several show details of the deck and cockpit.

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby Willie B » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:55 pm

Great thanks JimH

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby Willie B » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:58 pm

I think you [are] right, that is, the boat is a Guardian 22. It was a tender for a super yacht so they may have wanted something a bit more substantial.

However the console is different, mine is more like a Outrage 22.
Do they both come out of the same mould?

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:01 pm

Willie B wrote:...the console is different, mine is more like a Outrage 22.
Do they both come out of the same mould?


I don't think one mold could make two different consoles. Each of the two different consoles probably has its own mold.

Generally the boats made for commercial user tend to use an aluminum welded center console, not a molded fiberglass console. I am surprised that if your boat was a GUARDIAN it came with a molded fiberglass console, at least that is the inference I made when you mentioned the word "moulds" in relationship to the console on your boat. Aluminum consoles are not made in molds, typically. They are made from aluminum panels, perhaps sometimes bent panels, and welded. In any case, it is difficult to know what the console on your boat looks like and how it is made for readers, like me, because you have not described it in detail or shown it to us, except with pictures that show the console completely covered with canvas.

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby Willie B » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:19 pm

Sorry my question wasn't clear: do the Outrage and Guardian come out of the same molds?

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby jimh » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:01 pm

I doubt that the GUARDIAN and the OUTRAGE 22-foot hulls come from the same molds, but that is my speculation. Asking readers to answer this question is really asking people to speculate--none of us know the answer.

The shape of the outer hull might be the same, but we can already see clearly that the inner hull liner is different on the two boats. Depending on when the GUARDIAN was made, there may have been a separate production facility involved, distinct from the Boston Whaler main plant in Everglades, Florida.

Have you found a hull identification number or HIN on this boat we are discussing?

I mentioned this aspect of how to identify the boat to you in an earlier reply I made to your questions. Please see my earlier reply inquiring with you about the knowledge of the HIN:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3603&p=23584#p21851

If you know the HIN, you can tell immediately who made the boat because the MIC or Manufacturer Identification Code will be different from the code BWC used for Boston Whaler boats. I think you should read the FAQ about hull identification to learn more about how to identify boats made by the commercial division. Here is a hyperlink to that information:

Q2: Where is the Hull Identification Number?
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q2

You really should follow these suggestions to more information and read them.

If you want to get information from actual real sources of information about this boat, assuming it is a Boston Whaler boat and has a HIN indicating it was made by them, you have to find the HIN. Then you need to contact the company that made the boat, either Boston Whaler (recreational) or Boston Whaler Commercial and Government Products, and ask them if they use the same molds. I cannot imagine that anyone other than those two companies know if the same molds were used to mold both the OUTRAGE 22 and GUARDIAN 22 hulls, except, as I already pointed out, it looks like the liner mold is quite different so I would expect that the liner mold is probably not the same based on this visual observation.

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby Willie B » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:44 pm

The hull number is
BWC5J242K394.

I have enquirer with Boston Whaler here in the U.K., they told me that the boat was built in the North East, desert Tan in colour and was built in 94.

So I have some info on it

jimh
Posts: 6254
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
Contact:

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby jimh » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:26 pm

Your dealer gave you some wrong information.

The federal HIN, BWC5J242K394, as explained in detail in the FAQ (see earlier link) decodes as follows:

BWC = manufacturer was Boston Whaler

5J = this is a 22-foot hull and can be an OUTRAGE, CUDDY, REVENGE, TEMPTATION, or GUARDIAN model.

242 = the 242nd boat in this production sequence using the 5J prefix

K = month of production was November

3 = year of production was 1993

94 = model-year designation was 1994.

In summary, you have a 22-foot hull built by Boston Whaler in November, 1993 as a 1994-model-year boat, and the production sequence number indicates the model could have been any of five models. (See listing above.)

The color of the gel coat is not encoded in the HIN. You can generally easily identify the color of the gel coat by a close visual inspection of the gel coat and assessment of the hue by eye.

The location of the plant that built the boat is not encoded in the HIN. Prior to c.1987, Boston Whaler had a plant in Rockland, Massachusetts. In c.1987 Boston Whaler acquired a boat building facility in Edgewater, Florida, and then built Boston Whaler boats in both locations. In c.1994 the entire Boston Whaler production operation was moved to Edgewater, Florida.

This history can be interpreted to mean that a boat like the 22-foot hull under discussion could have been built in Rockland, Massachusetts in November, 1993. Since there is already visual evidence the boat was built as a GUARDIAN, there is a good probability it was built in Rockland, as I believe the commercial-boat assembly probably stayed in Rockland until the very end days of that plant's operation.

The 22-foot hull production prefix starts at 5A and ends at 5J. This suggests that a boat with production sequence 5J242 was probably one of the last 22-foot hulls built under the BWC manufacturer identification. After c.2001 the hulls build by the commercial assembly division began to use a different MIC code, WCG.

Willie B
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Identify 21 or 22-foot Hull Model; Change Location of Cleats

Postby Willie B » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:08 pm

Great thanks Jim,

At least we know it's 22 foot!!!

Still not sure if it's Guardian or Outrage though.

I. Not sure where he got the desert tan colour from